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Steve, Thanks for the great account of your dinner. GOD I LOVE LE GOURMAND!!! I had the mussles you mentioned last time I was there and they are fantastic. I understand the issue with the fois gras, but come on, is there realy EVER enough fois gras? The only time I've ever been sated is the one time we made it at home and I almost died that night from my arteries spontaneously clogging. I've never done the full-on tasting menu, but have always thought the the regular menu was a great value. Now I've got myself worked into such a frenzy I may have to figure out a way to go there soon.

My wife and I lost our bahn mi innocence today at 88. The barbeque pork, as advertised, was excellent. Frankly, I was astonished at how good the bread is that they use. For the price I wasn't expecting much. Thanks for clueing us in. The owner said that the kitchen is finished and that they'll start having hot food in about 10 days. Not sure if anything could drag me away from the sandwiches though.

A few years back I used to go to Anchorage fairly regularly for business. The best meal I had there was at a place called .The Marx Brothers Cafe. The food was French in style, but used predominantly local ingredients. I remember having some halibut there that made me weep. A couple other places that were good are the Glacier Brew House and Simon & Seafort's. The Brew House had great beer and food that's definately a couple notches above normal pub food. S&S's specialty is seafood, and given the raw product that they have to work with, its usually excellent. Both places are downtown. I know you said you would be without transportation, but if there is any way you can get yourself down to the Alyeska Resort in Girdwood, its worth the effort. Very beautiful spot and the restaurant on top of the mountain is pretty good. Hope you have a good time, its a really beautiful area

BH, No need to concede. As one of my professors used to say, "intelligent people of good will can reasonably have differences of opinion." I try to remember this. I know I often state my opinions in strong terms, but I would hate for you (or anyone else) to think that I believe myself to be some definitive arbiter of taste.

I think hotel dining is a real mixed-bag the world over and Seattle isn't any different really. I think there are some really good places in town including Brasserie Margaux in the Warwick, Tulio in the Hotel Vintage Park, the Hunt Club in the Sorrento, Sazerac at Hotel Monaco and Cafe Campagne in the Inn at the Market. To answer your question BH, my wife and I had dinner at Shucker's in the Olympic about a year ago a thought it was very good. Some of the best oysters I've had in town. Have also had brunch in the Palm Court which is pretty over the top in terms of variety and quantity, but is still a buffet brunch and fairly pricey. We also had a nice dinner at E&O earlier this year, but I feel like I need to go back to render my final opinion. On the bad end (at least among hotels that try to act like they have a good restaurant) are Waters at the Woodmark and Blowfish at the Paramount. I would avoid both at all costs. As I noted, my all-time favorite in this category would have to be The Painted Table. Never made it to Fuller's in the Monique Barbeau days, but that obviously got a lot of attention in its day.

My nose!, oh my nose!..... I think I broke it when I reflexively dove into the picture of the lobster tails......

A place that definately should have been on my original list is The Painted Table before Tim Kelly left. That was hands down my favorite restaurant in town for some time. It will be interesting to see what they come up with to replace it. I understand they hired one of Tom Douglas' underlings to be the exec chef. Tim is apparently now the exec chef at Zoe in NYC.

Given gc's astute post, I would like to clarify a little what my actual issue with service in this area is, and it has nothing at all to do with a desire for more stuffiness. What I loathe are servers who want to be my best friend. If another waiter either sits down at the table or puts their hand on my shoulder while taking my order, I'm gonna scream. I also get tired of the many times that I have an empty water glass for most of the meal. My wife and I have taken to asking for a carafe of water, so we can nip this one in the bud. When I talk about professionalism, what I mean is that in the best service experiences I've had, there is a quality of personal commitment to doing the job well and an ability to strike the delicate balance of genuine friendliness and helpfulness tempered by an acknowlegement that their role is to facilitate a good experience for the customer, not to necessarily BE part of the experience. As a native to this area, I totally understand where you're coming from. Whether they mean it negatively or not, when Fat Guy, Steve Klc or other east coast types start talking about 'small' or 'less sophisticated' markets in reference to Seattle, there's a part of me that starts getting pretty uppity. I definately don't want to have to wear a jacket and tie every time I go out for a decent meal.

Yes, I did! You have a good point gc, but I hope the things I had to say weren't construed as bitching. I was really just trying to respond to the questions that mamster threw on the table. Overall I'm very happy with the current state of and trajectory of the Seattle restaurant scene. Like most natives, I would hate to simply try to replicate what has been done in other places. A lot of what has evolved here more or less organically, is the best of what we have. I'm sure this evolution will continue and 10 years from now we'll look back and talk about what schlock used to be served at places like Cascadia. Wait a second, some are already doing that I guess....

My meal at the JPH was a few years back and I've forgotten most of the details, so if I started a thread it would probably sound like a lot of non-specific whinging. I do recall an undercooked portobello with swiss cheese melted over it and thinking that I was entirely capable of doing that at home. As far as Babbo, I would hesitate to call it definitively bad. My wife's entree was bad, mine was merely ordinary, but not offensive. Our starters were actually quite good. Given all the fabulous places in NYC that I haven't been to yet, the chances of giving Babbo another shot are slim I'm afraid. I second the bread discussion. I would say that Seattle is "world-class" in that arena at least. I rarely find better bread when I travel that most of what we get here.

OK, so now I've let this rattle around my head for a while, I may have a cogent answer, but don't count on it. I've had to surgically remove my insecure reactionary native Seattleite, "we're as good as any place else!" reflex, especially since mb70 blew our cover in another thread. Like mamster, I've definately had my share of disapointing experiences in places that were supposed to be the next great thing in Seattle. However I've had equally disappointing experiences elsewhere in restaurants that had been elevated to the level of divine. Babbo in NYC stands out particularly for me. If you are comparing Seattle's entries into the category of haute cuisine, chic, big-name chef, all-beautiful all the time type places, there is absolutely no comparison. None of the places I've been in Seattle that try to play at that level are in the same ballpark as some places I've been to in SF, NYC and Boston. The food just doesn't have the level of complexity or creativity that you see elsewhere. Another area where Seattle restaurants are significantly lacking, and I would say this is accross the board, is in quality of service. In larger cities there is a level of professionalism in the service that you virtually never encounter here. Probably in part because there are almost no truly professional servers in this city. I think there might be some hope for us on this front. About three years ago, I was in SF and picked up a local food magazine. One of their writers had an article about her recent visit to Seattle. She said that the Seattle restaurant scene reminded her SF about 10 years earlier, so we only have 7 more years to go! Now, I would counter this argument with the fact that I think Seattle's dining scene is particularly strong in terms of what I would broadly term as neighborhood restaurants. Granted that some of the places that I'm thinking of draw customers widely, but they are, at least environmentally, closely tied to their specific location. The fact that if I were make a list of places I would reccomend to visitors, I would probably have to get down to at least #10 before hitting a downtown spot is evidence of where this market's strength lies, at least according to my palate. Maybe others that are more intimately familiar with other cities can comment on comparitive situations, but I know that in Boston for example, the advent of high quality neighborhood restaurants is a pretty recent phenomena. Edit: Rereading my ramblings now, I see that I basically whiffed on actually offering any answer to the question that was posed. Good thing I don't have to write for a living like mamster, I'd starve. Why is Seattle the way it is....hmmm...whether you want to blame it on bad critics, provincialism or simply an inexperienced dining public, it seems to me that the answer is a lack of expectations. If its never been demonstrated to you what truly exquisite food tastes like, how can you know that what you're eating now doesn't qualify? I wish I had enough experience eating in Vancouver and Portland to compare them to Seattle, but I too have heard that they offer better depth of dining quality than Seattle. My caveat there is that one of my most disappointing dining experiences took place near Portland, in the Willamette Valley. My wife and I went down there for a long weekend and had read about the Joel Palmer House in probably 3 national and regional food mags. These write-ups made the place out to be mushroom nirvana, but the quality of the dinner barely rose to mediocre and didn't compare to some much-less hyped places in the area.

Yeah baby!! Sammie Sue's eggs bene over collard greens was tops. I'm ashamed I left them off my original list....

I was flipping through the latest brochure that I received from the Herbfarm and ran accross something that better explains (though doesn't justify) the philosopy behind their refund policy. Under the Q&A section is the query, What is the cancellation policy? The answer, in part reads, "Reservations at the Herbfarm are like having tickets to an entertainment or sporting event. You are guaranteed a spot on the night of your reservation...." Now if tickets to an event is their frame of reference (although this is highly unusual for a restaurant) I can see why the policy is what it is. Good luck in fighting the good fight SG.

I'd like to take a crack at answering Fat Guy's question since I have eaten at the Herbfarm a number of times and think I have also eaten at enough places that would meet the "world-class" moniker elsewhere. First, the easy stuff....it has been well established that their refund policy is unacceptable, and I have to admit that I have never been aware of it when making reservations. Shame on me. Is it the result of arrogance? Quite possibly. For many years, the Herbfarm only took reservations two days a year and routinely sold out, on top of being fawned over by local and national publications. Because their new space is about twice the size of their old one, the presence of more high-end competition and the sagging economy, they don't routinely sell out anymore. The fact that they have continued to raise their prices and haven't adjusted some unfriendly policies shows a distinct lack of business acumen. As I said in an earlier post, I also find the sideshow irritating. I'm sure this is an artifact of the days when virtually all their customers were first-timers and their failure to reexamine this part of their business, again shows, a lack of business sense. I believe that it also reflects the personalities of the owners, which, in my experience, are quirky to say the least. The need to recount the story of "how it all began" before every dinner indicates a certain focus on the past to me. One difficulty I have with comparing it to the "major-league urban restaurants" that Fat Guy mentions is that the Herbfarm is very intentionally agrarian and anachronistic. Think of a cottage in the Cotswalds surrounded by a traditional English garden, that, I believe, is the environment/feel they're going for. Some find it quaint, other find it saccharine sweet. It's very hard for me to meaningfully compare that to any urban restaurant I've ever been to. Lastly, and this is the ONLY reason I go to the Herbfarm, the food. I will say up-front that Jerry Traunfeld's dishes do not have the artistry of presentation or the complexity of technique and composition of other places I've been. I believe his genius is in the ability to first, distill out a remarkable purity of flavor from his ingredients, and then to create simple combinations of these flavors that elevate the dish to something much, much greater than the sum of its parts. Then again, that is what great cooking is all about, right? The short answer to your question FG, is that while I do believe that the food at the Herbfarm is truly great, it certainly doesn't justify their business practices.

...hopefully he'll get the restaurant bug again at some point. I'd do my damndest to keep him in business... I only ate at Mamounia once, but really enjoyed it. Their short-lived take-out place next door was good too.

I second that emotion! Virazon would probably be on the top of my list of those we've loved and lost. I had several really memorable meals there, including a New Year's Eve dinner that ranks as one of the best meals I've ever had. What really irritates me about Virazon closing is that my understanding is that it was due to the inability of the owner and chef to work out a deal with each other. Something about the chef being promised an ownership share at some point and then the owner reneged on the deal. Does anyone have any idea where Rueda is these days? I'd travel significant distances to eat his food again. Others that I think fondly of: Adriatica - Although it had definately slipped in the last few years it was open, it used to be spectacular. On top of that, it was my first fine dining experience when I was about 15, and you know what they say about your first time.... L'Emir - In my opinion, the best middle eastern food that Seattle has ever seen. It was on 85th (I think) near Green Lake. Funky little place, but did Lebanese food at a level I've rarely experienced. If Bistro Antalya doesn't make it back, I would put that up there as well.

OK, people...this is a great topic and I refuse to let it die on the vine! Most of you must have at least one or two places in town that you think don't get the recognition that they're due. If you want to throw in your nominee for most overrated, that would be fun too. The menu for the anniversary dinner at Maximilien that I mentioned during the Nha Trang get-together can be found here if anyone is interested: Maximilien Anniversary Menu. My wife and I have reservations for 8:00.

With all due respect to the Sheraton, there's no reason to settle for "competent" over "remarkable" at any price level in Istanbul. Throughout my time in Turkey I was amazed at the exceptional food that could be had for a pittance.

The producer is Chateau de la Gardin. As far as I know, the bottle was stored on its side in the basement (no sunlight). The cork appears to be in good condition. Britcook's suggestion is the obvious answer, just open it and see. I guess there's part of me that would prefer to keep the bottle in tact as a keepsake if chances are that the wine won't be good. I appreciate everyone's insights.

Damn, if 2+ million is small, I'd sure hate to see what large is like..... (Steve, please note that the little face is intended to denote that the above comment is in no way intended as a personal attack on you or an expression of irrational hostility) Their cancellation policy is outrageous and since other valid criticisms have been brought up in this thread, I decided to forward a link to the thread to Ron and Carrie (the owners). Perhaps they will consider it, perhaps they won't.....

About a year ago, my father gave me a bottle of '69 Chateauneuf-du-Pape that he had been saving for me (I was born in '69). For all his other fine qualities, my dad was not a wine expert. My suspicion is that the wine is so far past its prime that its not drinkable. However, since I am also not a wine expert, I would be interested to hear other thoughts on the subject. Thanks.

I haven't been to the Bellevue branch, but have always enjoyed eating at the one near Seattle Center. In fact it's been to long since I've been there....

I had pineapple wine when I was in Hawaii. It was much drier than you'd expect. I can't say I thought it was particularly good or tasted particularly like pineapples for that matter....

Ahhh...another Chritopher Kimball acolyte. The only reason his writing is even tolerable is that he's virtually always right!!

BH, The best thing I've had at Brasserie Margaux was a lamb shank with a port demi glace. It was good enough to virtually bring me to tears. Today at brunch somebody next to us had the steak-frites which looked excellent.