robyn

I like dim sum - and don't eat it that often. So I try to eat it when I visit cities where it's available. Last time we were in Chicago (2002) - I recall we had some that was ok (I will settle for ok or better in Chicago) - but I can't remember the name of the restaurant. In any event - what's your favorite dim sum restaurant in Chicago these days (with carts). Thanks. Robyn

Thought I would give this thread a bump - since I will be making my reservations soon. Any new thinking on Tru? Does anyone know when it became part of Lettuce Entertain You? Has anyone dined there since Chef Graham took over the kitchen? I would hate to dine at an expensive restaurant 3 years too late. Also - has anyone ever dined at Seasons? We'll be staying at the Four Seasons - and I know we will get excellent service. As for the food - I don't have a clue. I understand that Schwa has reopened - but if we try to go there - my husband and I will go ourselves. Doesn't seem like the right kind of place to have a quiet leisurely dinner with people we want to spend time talking with. Robyn

Funny that you should mention that. Our "food teacher" in France had strict "eating rules" on days when we have having high end dinners. Very light meal mid-day. No snacks. No alcohol until we got to a restaurant except perhaps for an aperitif at the hotel bar before leaving for dinner. Wasn't hard for me to follow the food rules (I don't eat breakfast at home - and am always starved for lunch - which is more or less dinner time in Europe - takes me a long time to get over jet lag) - although I did like to have a cocktail or two before dinner. So I usually got to these restaurants really hungry - and ready to have a great meal. And that's still the way I eat when I go to Europe. FWIW - I can't understand why someone would want to go to an expensive restaurant where the dishes are - even according to people who like the restaurant - hit or miss - like Gagnaire. I like to go to a place where I have a reasonable expectation that everything will be wonderful. Is it just a desire to experiment? I can understand that on some level. I tried a lot of things in Japan that I had never eaten before just to try them. A lot were - to someone from the west - kind of odd (the Japanese are frequently much more interested in the texture of a food than how it tastes). OTOH - we never spent huge amounts of money on meals that we did not expect to enjoy 100%. To me - that would be like spending a huge amount of money on a pair of shoes that will be out of fashion in 3 months - and are uncomfortable as well. Robyn

Your first point isn't certain to to me. When I go to luxury hotels - sometimes the chef in charge of the main dining room is also in charge of everything else (from room service to banquets). Sometimes - he's not. Depends on the hotel - and the chef. The second point is. We'll be staying at the Four Seasons this fall - and it is definitely expensive compared to other places (more so in terms of dining than rooms - I read an article somewhere that the top hotels in Paris had been accused in recent years of fixing the prices of the rooms - no matter which top hotel you stay at - you can expect to pay X euros - give or take a few). Robyn

I think one has to enjoy eating to enjoy great food. That may sound silly - but I know people who have very expensive houses - and very expensive boats - who think that spending more than $100-200 on a meal for 2 is silly. Similarly - I know people who won't spend money on great hotels when they travel. I also know women who won't eat a meal that has more than 500 calories so they can maintain a size 4 when they are 50 or 60 or older (which is hard to do). To each his own. I don't think one needs a great deal of experience to enjoy great food - but at least a little experience helps. The first time we went to Paris - a friend arranged our dining - and dined with us. Over the course of about a week (we couldn't eat large meals every night) - he took us to "progressive dinners" First a 3-4 knife and fork bistro. Then a one star - then a two star - then a 3 star. I can't say that was the end of our learning - it was more like a beginning - a lesson in how to learn. Yes - there are some things most people can appreciate immediately. Like I have only had 2 or 3 great bottles of red wine in my life (and they were gifts). But good grief - they were like drinking liquid velvet. Even to someone like me (I rarely drink wine - perhaps those bottles spoiled me forever). OTOH - I am not sure appreciation for a cheese course comes as easily. BTW - I do not equate formal service and formal restaurants (along with formal place settings) as "stuffy". I have fine china and silver and glassware in my home - and expect a fine restaurant to have things that are at least as nice as what I would use at home for a nice dinner. The style may be traditional - or contemporary (at home my style is contemporary) - but a restaurant that hasn't spent a fair amount of money on the decor and the table settings isn't worthy of 2 stars in my book - much less 3. I know a restaurant is doing something right when I pick up the plates - because they are beautiful and I want to see who made them. Also - if you speak language X - and you are dining in a country which speaks language Y - and you don't speak language Y perfectly - most servers in fine restaurants will err on the side of being formal and polite with you (vous versus tu in France) - as opposed to saying "I am Phil and I will be your server tonight" (which is what you get in a lot of restaurants in the US if you're an English speaking person - even in a place like Per Se). It is just the nature of the culture in most countries. Luckily - people in countries like Japan know that non-Japanese will never learn proper bowing etiquette no matter how hard they try. Robyn

Hands down - Jamin - our second trip to Paris if I recall correctly. It had opened recently and only had one Michelin star. Sea urchins with quail eggs. Exquisite - delicious - and of historical interest in terms of the development of French cuisine. One mark of a great dish is you can remember it many years later without looking it up - unless you're having a "senior moment". Note that there aren't too many great meals I remember dish by dish. One is L'Hotel du France in Auch (Andre Daguin). The best chicken soup I have ever had. Followed by a main of the first hot fois I ever ate. Wonderful cheese for "dessert". One reason I think Gordon Ramsay is worth its 3 stars is because I remember every dish I had there (appetizer of Scottish langoutines - main of Bresse pigeon - and dessert which was a chocolate tube filled with many layers of wonderful tasting stuff - including ginger mousse). Of course - I went to Gordon Ramsay RHR in 2004 - and Jamin in the early 1980's. So Gordon Ramsay RHR hasn't passed the test of time yet! Also - I guess it is easier to remember 3 course meals than meals with more courses. And food is more than a bit like sex - some of the most memorable experiences are your "firsts" - especially when you were young (e.g., first Bresse chicken at La Mere Blanc - first turbot with amazing beurre blanc sauce at a 2 star restaurant in Paris whose name I can't remember - there's that senior moment ). BTW - I love wonderful seafood - rich sauces - perfectly cooked fowl with crispy skin - and "stinky" cheese - not necessarily in that order. My husband OTOH is an offal man. His favorite meal was an offal menu at Le Manoir aux Quat' Saisons in the UK in 1987. I will not remember that meal because of the offal. I will always remember it because we went through the Great Hurricane of 1987 in the UK later that night - and the stock market crash when we got home to the US on Monday. Robyn

Thanks for the comments about Gaya. I like fish - and thought it sounded like fun. As for 3 star experiences - I think it is a combination of factors. Like fortedei - I go back a ways in terms of dining in France - to the 1970's - and 1980's. And he is quite right about the dining experiences then. I can't recall how many 3 stars in France I dined at then - certainly more than 6 and fewer than 12 - but they were all amazingly perfect. FWIW - I found lunch at Gordon Ramsay RHR in 2004 to be a similar experience - ditto with Vendome in 2007. So it isn't a question of taste - I think mine has stayed pretty much the same. In part I think it is a matter of expectations - not in terms of getting great food - but of getting something new - and "exciting" - no matter how weird or how bad it tastes. Thirty years ago - and today in more traditional restaurants - the chefs work for years to perfect their signature dishes. They may add or subtract from their menus - but it isn't something that's done on a weekly or monthly basis. A chef didn't mind making the same perfect dish for a decade - and neither did diners. Today - people are willing to pay big money for "experiments" - some of which succeed - and many of which fail (as they apparently do - on a regular basis basis - at a place like Gagnaire). Just to say they've been at restaurant x, y or z. That is their problem. On my part - I never expected clients to pay for my services in areas I didn't know beans about - and I don't care to spend big dollars (like $750-1000 for 2 people) for "food experiments" (I can experiment at home on my own - thank you very much). I can't speak for why guides like Michelin give 3 stars to places with very uneven food - maybe it's why bond rating agencies gave high credit ratings to lousy securities (to be au courant and make money). BTW - I can't imagine that Senderens is any funkier than the original L'Archestrate (which was painted a vile shade of purple). Or that the service is any haughtier than it was at Lucas Carton. But - in terms of my experiences - the chef always knew how to cook up a storm. Robyn

Like most things - I think this question is personal. But my husband and I could never eat more than 1 "big deal" meal in a country like France or a city like New York every 2 or 3 days or even more. Without - at best - feeling bloated - or - at worst - getting sick (like head over the toilet sick - too much rich food can do that to you). And that was true even when we were a lot younger than we are now. I have to say that there are some countries - like Japan - where one can eat "big deal" meals every day (if by "big deal" you mean excellent or exquisite food). That is because the cuisine is a lot lighter than most and the portions are small. You can have a whole kaiseki meal - lots and lots of courses - where there isn't an ounce of fat in the whole thing - maybe 900 calories for the whole meal - and be hungry for breakfast the next morning. It is the only vacation I've taken where I've eaten everything I wanted to eat (including wonderful sweets) - and came home a couple of pounds lighter than when I left. And feeling great. Curiously - if one eats traditional Italian meals in Italy (a salad - a bit of pasta - a roasted bird) - they are not as light as those in Japan - but they are pretty light compared to many in other countries - lighter than one would think. Just FWIW - we will be in Paris for about 9 days this fall. Doubt we will have more than 2 or 3 "big deal" meals. Although I am sure we will eat well during the whole trip. The answer to trying to cram everything into a short trip is travel more often. Or stretch out your time horizon from this year to the rest of your life. I am sure I have missed a whole lot over the decades because I like to "travel slow". But I have very much enjoyed most of what I've seen - done - and eaten. And if I only had 20 minutes to see the Louvre - I think I would go back and figure out why I done such a lousy job of planning my trip! Robyn

I think a better way to phrase the question would be is the restaurant worth it to a particular person. For example - in the past - I might go to a place like Troisgros (great restaurant in dumpy out of the way town) just to dine at the restaurant. These days - I pretty much decide where I want to travel first (almost exclusively major metro areas) - and then decide where to eat second. I'm not saying one way to travel is right - and the other wrong - it's just that people have particular travel preferences - which can vary over the years. Like last year - I wanted to see Germany - Berlin - Munich and Cologne. I did choose to stay at the hotel where Vendome is located in a suburb of Cologne because of Vendome and Dieter Muller - but that's because it was easy to get into Cologne during the day by train. I don't think I'll ever dine in a restaurant like Troisgros again. Likewise - I don't think anyone is going to go to Osaka just to dine at a restaurant - no matter how fabulous it is. Also - people have different tastes in food. Look at the disagreements here (I am in the camp that did not think Jean Georges or Per Se were worth 3 stars - while I thought that Gordon Ramsay RHR and Alain Ducasse at the Essex house did). Sometimes you have to try things once just to try them (like a high end kaiseki meal in Japan) - even if the type of meal doesn't wind up high on your list of things to eat again. But there is so much written about western higher end restaurants these days (professional reviews - amateur reviews - menus available on web sites - etc.) that unless you are very young - or very inexperienced - you should have an idea in advance whether or not you will like a particular kind of place. I will note that I think people who are younger and/or inexperienced when it comes to high end dining tend to make a major mistake when they skip directly from not knowing much to 3 star restaurants. They don't know very much about food - and they wind up trying to measure things without a ruler. One really good thing about the Michelin Guide - at least in France - is it is very comprehensive. Three or four knife and fork restaurants can be very very good. One and two star places can be excellent. And you won't have a concept of what a 3 star restaurant should be unless you know what 1 star and 2 stars mean. In that regard - I think a guide like Michelin has done a poor job in the US by saying that a restaurant like Per Se is in the same class as Vendome. Simply stated - it isn't - and I don't think Michelin would give it 3 stars if it were in France or elsewhere in Europe. Robyn

I had exactly the same reaction that you had! Robyn

One thing I get from this thread is that absolutely no one travels as widely and frequently as necessary to keep up with what's going on in terms of restaurants worldwide. And there is a curious thing about traveling in a country like Japan (at least for an English speaking person). I simply can't remember the names of any restaurants we dined at there (must have something to do with my lack of familiarity with the language). I have however bookmarked all of the ones I really liked - even if the only thing I can recognize on the bookmarked page is the name in English. FWIW - Dieter Muller last year had the best cheese trolley I have ever had in my whole life (and I'm not very young!). Robyn

Drosendorf - Think we agree - almost 100%. Amazing . Were it not for the Bruni thing (I made my reservation before he wrote his article) - a place like Michael's would have had more of a chance to go from childhood to adolescence to adulthood without the burden of being a "child star". If you know what I mean. Places like Bistro Aix - bb's and Biscotti's in Jacksonville - Opus 39 in St. Augustine - never had that spotlight pointed on them when they were really young. Gave them more time to work things out. Hit their stride. Even now - I suspect most people would be pleasantly surprised dining at these places - because no one expects anything more than fried fish and BBQ in NE Florida! I am not saying that these are destination restaurants (although Opus 39 is worth an overnight from someplace like Orlando - mostly because it is a very good restaurant in an attractive town - and St. Augustine in general is a pleasant weekend for most people in Florida and southern Georgia) - only that they are good places to eat if you happen to be here. Think the theme in SE Florida has to be not will you love me tomorrow - but will you love me in the summer . Here - we have many fewer tourists - so a restaurant has to depend on locals Jbzepol - I can count on one hand the number of times I have ever been at a famous chef "clone" restaurant. In fact - the only times I can recall were during a trip to Las Vegas maybe 6 years ago. One ok experience (Circo) - one excellent experience (Aqua) - one lousy experience (Le Cirque). Swore off restaurants like that after that trip. I have never been tempted to try the 10th Nobu clone - or the 10th Robuchon clone (having been to the original restaurants of both chefs). Not that I never go to chain restaurants (they're essential for survival in Jacksonville) - but a place like Maggione's - good eats as opposed to fine dining - is about my limit when it comes to chains. I don't know. To me there is something really weird about a really expensive restaurant that's a chain. Robyn

If all I wanted was decent food - I would dine at home (I'm a pretty good cook). Being treated like the great unwashed while the people next to you are going first class simply isn't an acceptable dining experience IMO (remember that old ad that caricatured the difference between first class and coach in an airplane?). Note that my opinions aren't that important here - because I don't live in Miami. The opinions that matter are those of people like my accountant and his wife - their friends and neighbors. They are in-town frequent Miami diners - not vacationing trendoids or occasional business travelers like me - and it's people like them that will make or break a restaurant over the long run. And their reaction to the restaurant was almost identical to ours. Perhaps you and your friends are locals - but feel differently about the restaurant. Suspect you do - judging from this. In which case it will perhaps do ok over the long run. You don't have to please everyone all of the time to be a good successful neighborhood restaurant - just a fair number of people a lot of the time - enough to get them to return to a place repeatedly. That has been/is really a big problem in Miami (I lived there for 20+ years). A lot of people are interested in this week's restaurant of the year for about 10 minutes - then they abandon it - and they're on to next week's restaurant of the year. As for the food - like I've said - it wasn't bad - but it wasn't anything exceptional either. About on a par with our Bistro Aix here in Jacksonville. Same wood burning oven theme. Bistro Aix is a good - not a great - restaurant. The NYT wrote it up in glowing terms in a 36 hours in Jacksonville piece - but I thought the NYT was a bit excessive. OTOH - if you do like Michael's - I hope you will support it - so it will be around next year and the year after that - and improve year after year. Use it or lose it. We feel that way about Bistro Aix and a couple of our other local restaurants - and we support them with our dining dollars. Florida has a tendency to be a culinary wasteland - so it's important to support local chefs who are at least giving it the old college try or better - even if they don't always hit home runs. BTW - you can fight with the Atlanta people about Chef Blais. I have never been to Barton G - my sister-in-law likes it - but we don't agree about much of anything - which is one reason I've never tried the place . I have dined twice at Casa Tua (wrote up my meals here) - last time was about 3 years ago. First time was better than the second. It serves simple elegant authentic (IMO) Italian food. In a lovely setting. Expensive for Miami. Wouldn't call it a good value - but it's a nice dining experience (except for the no-see-ums biting your ankles if you dine outside). Doubly nice for South Beach (where it's hard to have a nice dining experience). Can't tell you what it's like today. Finally - for those of you who like the fried "hominy" at Michael's - if you are in or passing through the Titusville area - try the corn fritters (which you get as a freebie with your meal) at Dixie Crossroads (really good old fashioned Florida fish place specializing in local rock shrimp). They're fabulous. Robyn

Golf courses and the like up here use a lot of gray water too. But I don't think you want to irrigate things you eat with the stuff! I think water restrictions for residential users like us should be permanent (and ours are). Two days a week if water is ok - fewer if things are bad or worse. And there should be restrictions on development too. The biggest water issue up here now is the diversion of millions of gallons of water from the St. Johns River to central Florida so thousands of new homeowners can water their lawns. It is shaping up to be a really huge water fight. I like the idea of - to everything there is a season. The season for microgreens is - in most parts of the world - the spring - or - in a lot of Florida - the winter. No reason to try to grow or eat things out of season - which is generally wasteful environmentally IMO - as opposed to growing them in season. For similar reasons - I will wait until things like blueberries are ready in the US - as opposed to eating those grown thousands of miles away in South America. If nothing else - eating seasonally makes eating more interesting. Different things at different times of the year. FWIW - with regard to scuba - my husband and I are both certified divers - but gave it up once our health insurance company stopped covering injuries caused as a result of it (our insurer puts in a high risk category like sky diving). Robyn

Guess I can't win for losing. Up thread - I was told we shouldn't have expected a great dinner on Monday - since *the* chef wasn't in the kitchen on Mondays. I agree with you though - a good restaurant should be able to function if *the* chef takes a day off. On the third hand - if the named chef is never in residence (many have "chains" in multiple cities these days) - you can't judge a restaurant on the basis of his or her reputation - only on the basis of the food that the people who happen to be in the kitchen are serving up. And I pretty much agree with you about Michael's. I have never said we had a bad meal there - or an overpriced one. It was a totally ok meal - and I'd recommend the restaurant to anyone who wanted to avoid South Beach - chain restaurants - etc. - as long as they didn't get one of those too-tight 2 tops at the front of the restaurant. Funny about our perceptions of turkey legs. My husband takes meds for high blood pressure - so we do relatively low (not no) - salt cooking at home (at least by southern standards). And too much salt when we eat elsewhere just overwhelms our taste buds. I like the smoked turkey leg at the Arts Festival because I can actually taste the turkey and the smoke - and am not overwhelmed by salt. I think the same thing applies when we eat dishes that have too much sugar - grease - whatever. We were at the Clay County Fair this weekend - and the greens they offered (for free - showing the way original Florida settlers lived and ate) were probably the sweetest greasiest things at the Fair - even worse than funnel cakes. Couldn't hardly taste the greens - yuck. Guess we're used to kind of medium amounts of things in food - so a lot is too much. BTW - we took a peek at Ti Amo during the Fair (if I am thinking of the right place - it had opened recently - the interior was very nice looking - and there was a whole pig cooking on a smoker in front of the restaurant that day). Looked like a place we have to try next time in Gainesville. Robyn

I don't think Gagnaire was ever my cup of tea - but I've thought of trying Gaya for lunch. Lower prices - lower expectations - maybe a good meal. Have any of you Gagnaire fans dined at Gaya? Robyn

Why? ← Is this a trick question ? If not - because I care more about the quality of the meals I'm paying for than getting trying to get some psychic satisfaction that I have dined at a restaurant where the chef is on TV (frankly - I don't care beans about the latter). BTW - what's new and good in Gainesville these days (I live near Jacksonville and usually get to Gainesville a couple of times a year)? My favorite food in Gainesville is usually the smoked turkey legs at the fall arts festival (no joke - they're terrific). Robyn

I hope you guys got as much rain in the last couple of days as we did to help with the drought. A welcome soaking. If Philippe Starck is "out" - no one told the people who have plastered a 3 story picture of his face on a new condo on Brickell Avenue. Anyway - I am not defending him (he's far from my favorite designer) - but the concept of spending some money on making a restaurant interior inviting and comfortable. If those 2 tops in the front of Michael's - which are pretty much 6 inches apart - had been arranged in a nicer way - I wouldn't have had the pleasure of a server constantly leaning over me and my husband and telling the couple next to us - a Manhattan real estate broker and his friend - the chef is sending this over - and the chef is sending that over - and don't worry - you won't be charged for it (they were being comp'd for all or most of their meal). I know chefs comp people - but I don't have to be an intimate part of someone else's "free lunch" - or privy to their life histories either. Note that I have dined in places where tables are tight - like Manhattan - and Tokyo - and I don't think I've ever had tables as close together as I had at Michael's. Wasn't one of the reasons for opening in the Design District because the rents are lower? Presumably - lower rents should lead to a little more elbow room. You can argue with the people in Atlanta over who has a claim to Chef Blais. First he was in Atlanta - then he was in Miami (Barton G. if I recall correctly) - then back to Atlanta - and who knows where he is now? I only dined with him once - in Atlanta - didn't care for the food - and haven't botherered to track him down again for a meal. And Top Chef? You have got to be kidding. I'd rather have my chefs - no matter what the city - in their kitchens as opposed to gallivanting around on TV. I don't pick the restaurants I dine at on the basis of their chef's TV shows (I don't even know who the chef is at Casa Tua - but I have had a couple of really excellent meals there - of course - Casa Tua is at a different price point.) And I would like to try Chef Jordi Valles' food again (we had an excellent meal at Mosaico when he were there - then he came to the Ritz Carlton up here at Amelia Island - wasn't a good fit - and I understand he is now at the Ritz Carlton in Key Biscayne - where - unfortunately - his talents may be wasted). I doubt you will see Chef Valles on TV - because - last time I saw him - his English wasn't very good. As for Tour d'Argent - it has had a pretty poor reputation for quite a while. I think we'd all be happier dining just about anywhere else than dining there. Ultimately - this is simply what Ulterior Epicure said. The expectations bar set too high - combined with the reality of an ok - although unexceptional - meal. And although I agree with you that the comparison with Bacchanalia is somewhat unfair - because Michael's is new - and Bacchanalia has had quite a bit of time to develop - I think that becoming like Bacchanalia is a worthy goal. That restaurant is a fine somewhat informal regional restaurant that isn't too expensive. Not worth a journey - but worth a reservation when you're in Atlanta. I hope that a year or two from now - when all the Bruni hoopla about Michael's dies down - that it hits its stride (I also hope it's still there - trendy restaurants in Miami and other cities have a way of appearing and disappearing very quickly). Robyn

What is your budget? And where is your home base? When we travel - I always like to go to regular food stores to compare food prices abroad versus those I pay at home (in NE Florida). In Germany last year - prices were about 150% of US prices - and I would suspect France would be closer to 200% since it's more expensive than Germany. In general - raw ingredients are very cheap in the US compared to those in Europe. Robyn

I would love to try it - but won't be in Paris until October. And I'd probably go for lunch there. Robyn

I would think there would be something more concrete as opposed to these vague rumors. We have a reservation at the hotel in October. Only about 850 euros a night. And one would expect a hotel with prices like that to have the dining room in order. Not stories about a chef being led out in hand-cuffs - or that another famous chef might be interested in taking over. If they can't run the expensive dining room in an orderly fashion - what can one expect of housekeeping? As a future guest - I find the entire matter disconcerting. Robyn

Prometheus - We were in Germany last spring. At least in Berlin - I don't think you have to worry about "tourist hordes". There weren't any - which is kind of surprising given Berlin's size - vitality - and (relatively) low prices these days. We went to the Carnival of Culture (early May). It's a really big street food/music festival - and I wasn't overwhelmed by the street food (the best was some tasty grilled wurst - regular wurst - not currywurst - wurst with ketchup and curry powder - which I really disliked). But we had plenty of good meals in "sit-down" restaurants. One place to go around and sample things that is quite civilized is the food courts at Ka De We (big department store). Robyn

He wouldn't be the first chef with a temper problem. Remember the stories about Tom Aikens? Robyn

Trying what? Robyn

Drosendorf - I agree with you about the "local" thing. We have the same problems with limited varieties of local items here in north Florida. If we insisted on eating 100% local - we'd be dining on grits and grunts (and shrimp) a lot of the time - with some potatoes and cabbage thrown in during the winter . I would even go so far to say that it is better to grow things far away and eat them locally if raising those things locally doesn't make any sense environmentally. A good example of this is rice grown in California. A discussion of water is probably beyond the scope of this thread - but a lot of crops that don't make any environmental sense are those that are water-intensive - but are grown in regions that are short of water - or crops that are fertilizer/chemical intensive where fertilizer/chemical run-off threatens water supplies. One reason I can't grow microgreens here after about April 1 is water. They must be watered every day when it starts to get hot - and we - as residential users - are restricted to 2 days a week of watering. Does it make sense to grow microgreens on a commercial scale if a lot of scarce water is wasted doing so? I would hope that the SFWMD is sensible in terms of the guidelines it uses in issuing consumptive use permits for commercial users (although most water districts - including ours - aren't - we're on permanent water restrictions and they're still giving out permits for water bottling plants!). IOW - a big part of the "local" movement has to include the concept of "sustainable" IMO. And there are crops that are more "sustainable" than others (e.g., I've never heard anything bad about the environmental effects of growing strawberries - which are in season now - then again - I haven't done extensive research on the subject). Up where I live - the most sustainable crop is pine trees - which is why we have a lot of pine tree farms. BTW Anne - my understanding is Pompano are mostly an "on-shore" fish - which is why we can catch them from the pier. Robyn