Yannii

vadouvan, i simply disagree with most of what you said. here are some more details / opinions that may sway people into doing the right thing... the chain restaurant i worked at sent roughly 1 million dollars in pure profit to their corporate hq that year. that is money that might be used /invested locally otherwise. (wage tax affects employees, and the place i worked had no business privilege tax for whatever reason, probably political breaks). chains don't have lower quality food? aside from the required standardization (which we all agree is a very bad thing, there will be no snackbar, ansil or marigold chains anytime soon) can you really argue that the food at Appleby's / chilli's is as good as Good Dog / royal tavern or some similarly priced concept? the food at the majority of these chains is flown / shipped in (at a detriment to the environment) frozen (ever eat a steak at tgi friday's or chilli's it tastes like plastic) reheated in a microwave and served with corn starch based sauces. they purchase genetically modified foods from corporate farmers (who squash the little farmers like bugs), over fish the seas, are cruel to the animals they raise, etc... their food is not delicious (IMHO), it's unhealthy (cancerous?) and bad for the environment. (did you know that mcdonalds french fries can not even be classified as potatoes because they are so genetically modified with pesticides - Supersize Me) honestly, as someone as into food as you are Vadouvan (i have read a lot of your other posts) how can you begin to defend chain restaurant's food quality. it's baffling to me. i have read you rants about bad italian byobs before, but seriously, wouldn't you rather go to l'angolo (or Melograno or wherever) than the olive garden or the italian bistro (possibly the worst restaurant in philly) any day of the week. i understand what you said about rents (which is just one of many ways chains squash little local competition, think starbucks) but the tone of your post is supportive / defensive of chains (or at least dismissive of my criticisms) which i think is sort of argumentative. CHAINS ARE EVIL that is the truth as i see it (do you really disagree? if so feel free to email me directly). maybe i'm a zealot or whatever, but reminding us of the city wage tax isn't gonna be enough to convince me otherwise (were you joking?) and just to be clear brescd01, there are LOTS of chef driven, socially responsible places in this city (as vadouvan mentioned sort of), and those are the business i think we should support, whether it's your money or someone else's. ps the thing about the smoked joint (which was a generalized point that we just couldn't leave alone i guess) was kind of a cheap shot. i know the chef and owners and what you said was a little unfair. i wish people could just get behind local business a little more. maybe try thinking of philadelphia restaurants as a team or something...

well this subject is a vast one, certainly deserving of it's own thread and/or forum (probably already in existence) but i thought i would add my two cents. for me, there seems to be two distinct criteria to judge chains by... restaurant quality and social responsibility. IMHO, Chains have, IN GENERAL, lower food quality than local/ mom and pop places. of course there are exceptions (both high and low) but, in general, the fact that food is transported from greater distances and recipe / kitchen control is bureaucratic and off-site, means less fresh, less interesting, less varied, less healthy, less innovative, less "loved" food. simple high quality ingredients like good steaks and seafood are the least likely to be affected (and in fact can be considerably better due to economy of scale purchasing and such), but even these places (capital grille, mccormick and schmicks, oceanaire, devon, ruth chris, etc...) are all affected by homogenized menus, atmosphere and service. the people who work at chains (i did for a while) are subjected to mandated speeches and "steps of service", selling frequent diner memberships and such. economies of scale are great for widgets and factories, but not especially great for food and service. the linkletter / schollsenger movie "fast food nation" comes out friday, everyone go see it.... now, more important to me, social responsibility. chains suck money out of localities. no two ways about that. profits get sent to corporate HQs and the like. in addition, chains (food or otherwise) often receive tax breaks (out of our pockets) for their development, and have associated political clout. chains often have very poor environmental habits (whether it be food sourcing, shipping practice, trash handling, parking lots, etc..). also chains often treat employees unfairly en mass. i could go on forever, but this post is way too long already. suffice it to say chains are indeed EVIL. there are lots of studies show their negative impact on local economies (walmart, etc...) and every time we eat at one (famous dave's) we close another local business (smoked joint). eat local, stay healthy, ALWAYS LOVE.

while i realize the original query was time sensitive, it has universal appeal.... i would suggest longhorn (chain ) . the thing is, a basic tenet of Philly's very healthy gastropub scene, is to utilize cheaper cuts of meat (and cheaper ingredients in general) in order to keep plates reasonably priced and such. so, if you can live with flank steak (or hangar or whatever) check out the usual suspects (royal, standard tap, north third, pontiac grille, society hill, good dog, etc...) but if you need a proper steak, sans atmosphere and expense. longhorn is pretty good. down on delaware avenue. related, i had a surprisingly not disappointing (sorry for the double negative) meal at famous dave's the other night. i guess chains aren't all bad (except for the effect on our socio-economic structure and politics of course) oh well, now that i say it out loud, i guess we shouldn't support such things. maybe marmont has gotten better? peace

This is a good (needed) thread, thank you. My first reaction is to point out that Morimoto's sushi is not THAT expensive. if you stay away from hot food, wine and cocktails (especially), your bill will be fairly reasonable. ordering pieces and rolls instead of platters is also advised. and as this thread supports I truly believe that Morimoto is a quantum leap better (fish quality, rice quality, etc...) than the rest of the field (which i find uninspiring) On the other hand, I did have wonderful sushi at Ajihei, all the way out in Princeton, NJ. small intimate place, wonderful quality / freshness. and i bet the trees are in perfect fall colors in Princeton right now, and maybe there is some cool lecture or concert going on at the university? that would make a nice birthday to me.... i have also heard (never been myself) good things about Ota Ya, in lambertville (new hope), which as a destination, probably has more activities than Princeton... good luck, i would love to hear you short list of Chinese (in a new or existing thread) if you have a chance.... thanks

well, i do eat quite a bit (i am a egulletier after all!), but this time I had some help from a friend (who didn't really hold up his end... )

i stopped by the Pontiac Grille late last night (midnight), after reading about the change in chefs in the inquirer. It was really good! first off, they now have a very good selection of beer (mostly Belgians and micros). and secondly, the food was out of this world. I had the "scott's burger" which is a kobe beef burger with truffle mayo, fried egg, fontina, and bacon that was transcendent (maybe not the healthiest choice, but totally worth the indulgence). it came with fresh cut fries and homemade ketchup (delicious). i also had grilled marlin tacos with watermelon salsa and guacamole, lime and such. so good, the flavors work really well together. and i had a snack of deviled eggs which were sort of spanish in seasoning (smoked paprika i think) and really good as well. the menu seems to be very reasonably priced (although the kobe beef burgers are a little expensive, but worth it i think) and the other plates i saw served looked awesome (bbq chicken with grilled corn, and taco salad) as well as plentiful. they had a whole page of specials on a monday night that all sounded good. the room itself / atmosphere was really pleasant as well. the big open windows in the front were perfect last night with the fall-like temperatures we had. the layout makes you feel sort of protected from south street in there. lots of wood and a nice long bar. it wasn't very crowded last night, but the people there seemed pretty cool, fun and laid back. the staff was really helpful, the bartender (john, i think) was great. it sounds like i'm a shill or something, but i'm definitely not connected with the place in any way, i'm just really excited to have another place in the neighborhood i can go late at night (they serve till 1am, which allows me to eat after procrastinating returning my videos to TLA until 5 minutes before they close at midnight ) for a good inexpensive bar meal. i love the royal tavern as well, and this feels pretty similar in concept (a little less loud / hipster-ish). i can't wait to go back (maybe tonight!)

I did mean the public market, thank you so much for the heads up, i will try one of your other suggestions.

hi, i am stopping through Portland on a Friday morning on my way up to Bar Harbor from Philly (sorry to be such a tourist) i am planning to load up on fresh produce and such at the market, and was wondering what would be the best place for breakfast. i was thinking the front room, any other suggestions? i am looking for fresh, creative, and of course, delicious. price/atmosphere unimportant, thanks

hi, another philly guy heading down to bar harbor this summer (end of august - will it be entirely over run with toursits like myself?) firstly, thanks for all the previous advice, much appreciated. i was wondering if anybody had any opinions about dining at the bar harbor club, the menu and view look/sound nice... thanks link to bar harbor club info

f*** laban, your food rocks, everyone i know thinks so...

amada sells bomba rice (in little canvas bags) in it's retail department. lots of other spanish goods as well.

Gayle's tuna lamb combo is/was very good when i went a few months ago. it has tuna (perfectly sliced, fresh and flavorful, probably blue fin) dressed in tsadtiki-esque sauce (like lamb would be) the lamb, on the other hand, seems to be slow braised, sweet and tender. the dish has two elements which serve to highlight things about each other with a bridge of an avocado based sauce. truly interesting and also delicious, in my humble opinion. give it a try... PS the dirty table thing was probably related to eating in a garden restaurant during one of the worst pollen seasons in memory (anybody else have unusual allergies this year?)

i, personally, really love our byob scene and hope it continues to thrive. a great example is the juxtaposition of Lolita and El Vez. Lolita has more of an opportunity for creative cooking (lower volume, no corporate structure) and a more intimate atmosphere, where as El Vez is more festive or whatever. Both are good restaurants (well El Vez is getting better lately) and both certainly have loyal audiences and success. anyway, i just wanted to respond to what vadouvan (and many others) said earlier, "BYOB's are great but we are getting to a point where nothing new is happening in town. We need more mid priced restaurants that aren't BYOB's, Starr Restaurants and Old city bars disguised as restaurants" basically, that is simply false. in the last few months, my neighborhood alone, has seen the opening of Ansil, Gayle, and Horizons. all creative, interesting, liquor serving, mid priced restaurants. now what about Raw, Estia (not mid priced i guess), Duece, or slightly older places like Sovalo, Southwark, Meritage, etc... I could make an equally compelling list of recent BYOB openings. honestly, Philly's restaurant scene is hardly stagnant (BYOB or otherwise). there are tons of new restaurants in the works as well. Variety is spice of life, I say, live it up. bring some interesting wine and go to a byob (maybe the truffle lobster mac n' cheese at Mandoline) tuesday night, go to watch flamenco at Amada (not really mid priced BTW) on wednesday night, go to a local gastro-pub thursday (Royal Tavern's country ribs), get all dressed up in your striped shirt and greasy hair for friday night Stephen Starr style madness (roof deck at Continental Midtown, followed by chesesteaks at Pat/Geno's @ 3:AM of course), maybe a romantic budget buster at Lacroix on saturday night, brunch at Sabrinas on sunday, happy hour wine and cheese at Tria on monday. blah, blah, blah.... you get it. Aliza Green was WAY off Base. Philly's restaurant scene, including it's amazing BYOBs, is alive and kicking..... the pclb kinda stinks, but honestly, they get better every year. the "chairman's selection" program rocks, and helps BYOBs exist. we now have decent (not great) store hours and improving prices and selection. and now, laws are changing and we can start shipping good wine right to your doorstep. liquor licenses are expensive, but that is, at least in part, a result of neighborhoods not wanting too many bars destroying the fabric of their community (IE what happened to south street over the last few decades). BYOB's don't attract quite as many problems for a community. anyway thanks for reading this very long rant. peace...

yeah definitely, i have been going there off and on for a few years. they have a big sign about the cafeteria on the front (hours are 4-8 btw, not 4:30-8:30) and the entrance is on the side (on fitwater). great "soul" or southern food. lovingly prepared and served. nice airy light filled (due to the sky-lit baptisimal pool (empty, but still smells a little like chlorine) which is the buildings atrium) cafeteria style seating. the great prices (and generous portions) make it a place i get to as often as possible. i really love the meatloaf, greens, yams, mac and cheese, sweet potato pie, patato salad, etc... fried chicken is cooked to order (so be prepared to wait 15-20 min) and excellent. i recomend it to everyone (except those on a diet...) have fun, report back.....

hi, i went to fat daddies yesterday, and everything was pretty good (brisket, mac and cheese, greens), but, i much prefer the cafeteria at the paradise baptist church located at 16th and fitzwater. in terms of quality, quantity and also atomisphere and service (although the cafteria does not have waitress service) paradise is clearly superior. does anybody else go there? i feel like it's somewhat overlooked (maybe due to it's weird hours, 4:30 - 8:30 only m-f, sat and sun lunch i think)

wow, beautiful pictures and descriptions, thank you so much for sharing... side note: can anyone tell me why sous vide cooking escapes the harmful (cancer causing) dioxins released during microwaving and freezing of other plastic containers? i've been meaning to try this techinque, but i am a little concerned. thanks

Paul, god bless you and Sushi Nation, you rock! and you have really made my day. I should have known that someone intelligent and generous enough to share their business dealings with us on egullet, would be such a thoughtful environmentalist (or stakeholder-ist). thank you for your detailed response (and cool links). Paul, i'm not sure if it is relevant, but a few years ago, monk's café on 16th and spruce, starting recycling their used peanut (fryer) oil. an eccentric farmer apparently uses it to heat greenhouses or something, here is a Link. just out of curiosity, is anyone out there familiar with Roy's (the Hawaiian fusion place)? are they considered to be utilizing the "stakeholder" business model that paul mentioned. i know they are really into respecting their supplier network and such. i believe they call it the "spirit of aloha" or something equally tranquil. are there any other local business using the stakeholder model? (probably whole foods, right?) as far as clean/green power is concerned, i recently signed up for pecowind (.com) which isn't actually green power (you still receive mixed source power), but definitely does support wind power, and hopefully sets up a long term transition... PS, Paul, were you impressed with your architects initial design concepts? will you be able to see the sushi chef while he makes the food? i think it would be cool, if a bar was busy enough, to have conveyor belt cocktails (sort of a throw back to the original asahis that the whole thing is inspired by). with all of today's colorful and visually appealing shots and martinis, it might just work, who knows? maybe after dinner, you could have a dj and bartender and do c.b. cocktails. i'm sure your landlord would not enjoy that...

hi paul, have you given much thought to idea of trying to make your emerging restaurant environmentally and ecologically friendly. i know that you are aiming for a low price point / high volume business model, but i think you might still be able, if you are interested in such things, to incorporate some earth friendly products in your design. i am by no means, an expert, but i guess i was thinking about sustainable fishing and/or local/organic vegetables and such. In addition, i was recently turned on to the concept of using "fair trade" products (has anyone else seen that movie "life and debt"?) and know that one of your neighbors (on walnut st) is a store that specializes in such products. In any case, i know your budget, and time, must be tight right now, and i'm sure you have plenty of other things to worry about right now, but in this initial period when so many long term directions are being established, it might be worth your time (and money, cc philly tends to be a pretty environmentally supportive population) to check out some of this stuff (there is a big conference on some related things which starts today called "bio democracy 2005"). anyway, thanks again for sharing this process with us (it must be hard not to get overwhelmed by all the input and criticism and such). best of luck...i really look forward to being a customer... ps if you have already considered such matters, i apologize pps i also like the name "sushi revolution", it has energy. ppps do you think your sake selection will also be of the low price / high volume model, or will you have a broad range of quality / price on your sake list? i am a big sake fan!

in response to the original post, I believe striped bass' wine list is, in general, overpriced and the '03 Basa is actually an excellent example of that (and possibly how inaccurate that magazine's award system can be) i mean, it's pretty simple, it's purchased for $11, and then resold for $44! having worked in philadelphia restaurants for a long time, i can tell you the extra costs (delivery, tax, minimal wholesale discount, etc...) are not quite as bad as earlier portrayed in this thread. and if SB wanted to, they could clearly offer that wine for $33 and still easily maintain industry standard liquor cost ratios. but they offer it for $44 because they are SB, a high-end destination restaurant, that thinks that the people who go there (tourists, business accounts, special ocassioners) don't care about the extra $10. guess what? they are wrong. BYOBs are more popular than ever in philly, and now the new SB has destroyed what used to be a good bar business to the point that it is now forced to offer free raw bar happy hour promotions and such in order to get people to drink there. alright, sorry for indignant tone, but some of these awards and press are so bogus, ya' know? ps, a descent martini at barclay prime is more like $20, ridiculous. even craig leban, our esteemed philadelphia inquirer food critic, has noted this fact. pps, i'm a big fan of the flat rate mark up system ("fri. sat. sun." in philadelphia is a good example) where the customer simply pays $10 or $20 more than the cost of the bottle. why pay a given percentage? that seems to be a product of accounting work sheets rather then customer POV logic. I would understand if a reserve list had a higher mark up (storing/aging wine for long periods of time can be costly), but other than that, why should joe customer pay more mark-up for an expensive bottle of wine versus a cheap one. they use the same glass ware (usually) and the same training and all that nonsense right? it think a flat rate system (although i've never worked in that system) would encourage up-selling (heck if i'm going to pay a $20 mark up for wine service, why not get the good stuff, or whatever). alright enuff ranting for one night!

first off, thank you so much for sharing this experience with all of us. it's extremely generous of you. as far as names go, "sushi nation" sounds good, if a little bit plain, IMHO. it reads a little 'pop' esque and modern, and i think it does conjure references to books like "fast food nation" and "prozac nation" and such. I'm not sure what you are going for in concept or physical design, of course, but i guess my question is, why does it have to have the word sushi in the title? why not "kaiten" (or whatever conveyor belt is in Japanese) or "Belt" or whatever. and then in the second title line, write something like "authentic conveyor belt sushi and sashimi" (and maybe in italics to emphasize the motion). most of the other sushi places around town don't include the word sushi in the main title. (genji, aoi, anjou, morimoto) and, maybe that is why you are doing it? In general, i believe a restaurant title should, in some way, express what the concept of the restaurant is (look at stephen star's success with his names, alma de cuba, budhakan, jones, angelina, etc.... they are all very expressive) and "sushi nation" isn't terribly expressive. it clearly let's you know that it's a sushi place, but, other than that, it's not very distinctive, you know... anyway, i'm sure it will be great either way. i'm getting hungry just thinking about this conveyor belt thing, can't wait till you open, best of luck...

hey lisa, do you know if the new store has "ventresca di tonno", or tuna belly, in jars or cans? I can't find this anywhere locally (only internet) thanks, and congratulations, i know it will be uber-successful!

hey, let me ask all of you something. i live near "the royal" and love their food. it actually used to be even better! specifically, it was cheaper and a little more consistent. anyway, my question is about the batter for the fish and chips. it used to be "crunchier" with a lot of little crispy apendages. now (it's been several months now) the batter is "doughier" and a little sweeter (kind of like funel cake batter). can anyone explain this difference to me. i was hoping to try making fish and chips at home. thanks in advance. ps i really love the sauces that the come with the fish and chips.

cakebread cab is in at 1213 chestnut as well...

i would highly reccomend their appetizers in general. katie is, of course, correct in reccomending the ceviches. if available, i love the ahi tuna ceviche - it's called fire and ice (it comes in a cocnut shell!) and also the king salmon which comes with a ricotto pepper and onion sauce, and if you don't mind a touch of heat, the baja bay scallops with a blackened tomatillo and truffle sauce. as far as other appetizers go, i absolutely love the arepa with rock shrimp sauce, the calamari salad, and the chile relleno (stuffed with cheese and lobster). both the guacamole cubano (with grilled pineapple) and the tomato, crab, and papaya salad are simple and refreshing, and the javali (wild boar skewers) is very interesting. as far as entree's go, the cold smoked rib-eye has as much, if not more, flavor as any steak i have ever had. and the pork chop (although a little pricy @ $28) is awesome. the chop is stuffed with chorizo and basted with apple butter, yum! also, the "decandente" dessert rocks. all that being said, they have a chef's tasting menu (6 small courses) available each night which is ussually a terrific cullnary adventure, and has a wine pairing option which is very cool. have fun, report back...

the adress is 210 w. washington square, between walnut and locust on the west side of washington square.