jimtmcdaniels

Good points. I did research using dry ice in a walk in and the hazard. These particular sites were very informative: http://www.acmedryice.com/power_outage_dry_ice.html#:~:text=WALK-IN REFRIGERATOR,the air is sucked through. https://www.philadelphiadryice.com/how-much-dry-ice-do-i-need/ https://extension.umn.edu/preserving-and-preparing/power-outages-keep-food-safe#:~:text=For a 20-cubic-foot,on top of the food. The amount of dry ice recommended varies a bit between sources. Individuals online have had very good luck with one block of dry ice lasting an entire week. The dry ice is in the "short term" options of the list. A generator is definitely the best option. Multi fuel which can run on propane or gas is a better option during a prolonged power outage. Our power outages in town very rarely last for more than 2 days. In rare instances, in some isolated pocket areas, no more than 7 days at the most. I wanted the list to be encompassingly comprehensive so that Everyone, the restaurant workers and their families, would have an idea of what options they all might have for saving food in their personal home refrigerators and freezers. The dry ice could be a sweet spot for some of them to consider. Also for if their unit breaks while waiting to buy a replacement or get repair on it. It seems dry ice availability has been on the decline. However some cities might have an abundance of dry ice suppliers/makers. If there is a dry ice warehouse or if they start trucking it into the city during a big power outage, dry ice might be what many are using during a crisis. It might be easier for authorities to truck or rail road in dry ice, then to give every a band new complicated generator which needs hard to get fuel that no one has. The word generator seems to encompasses solar and battery generators. The restaurant has 2 ice machines with bins. I wanted staff to know that using that ice can prolong the time in the units if placed inside in a large container(s). I wanted people to know that ice is what we use to use to keep food cool before the 1935's. It's our history. Ice boxes were small because they needed to be to conserve how much ice was needed and didn't keep food quite as cold as our modern refrigerators did. The food in them didn't last as long. I also wanted people to know it is possible to feed rinsed or cooked spoiled food to dogs. Dogs have to eat too during a power outage. Also if people realize they can feed some of it to their dogs, they won't feel so bad that the food and their money is going to waste and so want to try to save it and eat it or feed it to humans..... I also wanted all the info to be printable, to fit on one side of a sheet of paper, in a larger 24 font size.

Thanks for the discussions ALL! I've made a reference sheet containing the strategies and information I found in a lot of my research online and condensed it all into useful sheet to review during an outage for a restaurant or home. We'll reference it when we need to. I'm going to find some places to post it, like with the generators etc. I don't think you'll find such a thorough, comprehensive and succinct list on the subject elsewhere. So during such crisis we will have a clear mind and not be too indecisive and making poor decisions and panicking. Thought I'd share below for anyone interested in using or building from for their fit: Take care. PRINTABLE INFO LIST: POWER OUTAGE/UNIT FAILURE-FOOD PRESERVATION INFO: Outages Often Do Not Last Long. If So, Food in Refrigerates Is Quit Safe & Unaffected For A Few Hrs., In Freezers Even Longer. DO Check CSU.ORG For Expected Restoration Times! If Outage Might Be Much Longer, Read Below & Take Appropriate Short/Long Term Actions ASAP. This Info Is Also Applicable For: Broken Units, Or When Planning For A Potential Imminent Storm/Power Outage. Without Power, Your Unit Is Still A Powerful Insulating Box. -Do Not Place Food Outside In The Snow. The Sun Warms Food. Avoid Unnecessarily Opening Units. - REFRIGERATORS: Foods Will Maintain A Spoil Safe Temp. (≤40℉/4.4℃) For 3-6 Hrs. However After The First Couple Hrs., Foods Can Begin To Age Faster, About 1 Day For Every Hour. Above The Safe Temp., Food Will Begin To Spoil By Accelerated Natural Growth Of Bacteria & More. Many Foods, Left Over 2 Hrs. Above The Safe Temp., May No Longer Be Considered Safe To Eat. Particularly Uncooked: Fish/Seafood/Poultry/Red Meat, Dairy/Milk & Aged Leftovers. Also Some Chopped/Cut Fruits/Vegetables. If It Either Doesn’t Look Good Or Smell Good, It’s Definitely No Longer Good. Anyone Eating It May Become Quite Ill. Rinsing or Cooking Slightly Spoiled Food, May Make It Safe For A Dog’s Robust Food-Scavenger Digestion, But Not A Human’s. SHORT TERM Actions Which EXTENDS The Time: Placing Into The Refrigerators, ASAP: Ice (From An Ice Maker)/Snow/Gel-Water Packs/Frozen Water Bottles/Cooling Paddles Sometimes Stored In Freezers. Dry-Ice* Can Be A Strong Option, Be Aware It Can Freeze Food Near It. Also: Consolidate Food From Another, To Fill A Unit (Leave Room For Ice). Move Freezable Food(s) Into A Freezer. - FREEZERS: Frozen Food Will Thaw In 12, Up To 24 Hrs-If Unit Is Packed Full. Even Then, Food Won’t Reach An Unsafe Temp. (≥40℉/4.4℃) For Another 12-24 Hrs. Time Can Be EXTENDED By: Consolidating Food To Pack Into One Full Unit. Adding Dry-Ice* On The Top Shelves, Atop The Food. Once Power Is Restored, Food That Did Not Reach An Unsafe Temp. Can Be Safely Refrozen. Taste Might Be Effected Some. = LONG TERM Outage Actions (Also For SHORT TERM - IF A Generator Is Available): Power Refrigerator/Freezer Units With A Portable Generator(s), Until Power Is Restored. This Can Also Power Lighting & Small Items. Add Units & Motors One At A Time, To Avoid Multiple Start Ups, Over Loading The Generator. If The Generator Isn’t Capable Of Running All The Units At Once: Simply Rotate Powering In Split Groups, Approx. Every 30-60 Min. Once All The Cooling Units Reach Their Temp. Setting, Their Motors Will Cycle Off & On. You Then Might Find You Can Now Power All The Units With The Generator. If Food Is Cold Enough, To Conserve Fuel, You May Turn The Generator Off Occasionally. Be Aware, That During A Wide Spread Power Outage, Generator Fuel May Be Scarce, Gas Pumps May Be Out Of Order, etc. Only A Large Trailered 250vac Generator Is Capable Of Powering All Of A Restaurant’s Open For Business Equipment. i.e. Electric Grills, Espresso, AC, Vent Hood, Make Up Blower, Etc. -A Portable 12vdc to 120vac Power Inverter, Connected To A Running Car, With An Extension Cord, Might Power 1 Refrigerator. When Done, Be Sure To Shut Off Its Fuel Supply Valve & Run The Generator(s) Till They Stall. So Their Carburetors Will Not Be Gummed Up With Dried/Gelled Fuel Next Time They Are Needed Again! = *DRY-ICE(Penguin Brand?): Is Sold At Some: Local Grocery Stores & Some Other Places. In A Chest Freezer, Up Front By Customer Service. Wisely Call First To Check On Current Availability. I.e. Walmart @ $2 Lb., King Soopers @ $2 Lb., Safeway @ $4 Lb. Also: Butcher Shops/Ice Cream Shops/Supply Companies. The Expense Can Add Up. -Dry-Ice Is Super Cold Frozen Solid CO2 Gas @ -109℉/-78℃! Normal Ice Is Only A Bit Below 32℉/0℃. Avoid Frost Bite, Handle Only With Thick Protection i.e. Gloves/Cloth. Keep Away From Children. Direct Contact Can Damage Temp. Vulnerable Surfaces(i.e. Glass, Plastic, etc.). Place Some Insulation i.e. Cardboard Sheet etc. Directly Underneath It. Suggested Quantities: Refrigerator: 10 Lb.(Replace Every 1-2 Days). Freezer: 15-50 lb.(Dependent On Unit Size. Replace Every 1-4 Days). 12’x12’ Walk Ins*(Replace Every 1-2 Days.).: Freezer: 150-150 lb. Refrigerator: 50-100 lb. *Use In A Walk In Can Cause A Suffocation Hazard. The Room Can Fill From The Floor Up, With The Odorless & Invisible, Melted Carbon Dioxide Gas. So When Entering, Just Leave The Door Open & Do Have A Rescue Buddy Outside. -Use In Refrigerators Can Freeze Food. Start With Conservative Quantities & Monitor Temp. -Store Excess Dry-Ice In A Freezer Unit. Otherwise In A Camping Cooler. -But Never In Any Container Which Is Latched/Sealed Air Tight(Drain Plug Closed). -This Could Pressurize As The CO2 Turns To Gas. Causing A Real Hazard Upon Rupturing/Opening. -To Dispose Of Dry-Ice, Place It In A Freezer Unit. It Will Help The Motor Keep The Food Frozen & Save Some Electricity. While It Slowly Sublimates Away & Disappears Over A Few Days/Weeks. Otherwise, Leave It At Room Temperature In A Well Ventilated Area. With Cardboard Under It. For A Small Fog Effects Show, Place Some Into A Large Pyrex Glass Bowl Or Metal Pot, Half Filled With Hot Water. Once The Water Cools(10 Min.), Most Of The Show Is Over. -Never Place Down a Plumbing Fixture Or Pipe. It Can Easily Damage Them, With Its Extreme Temp. Fun Related - Did You Knows: Interesting Dry-Ice Uses: Removal Of: Car Hail Dents, Floor Tile. Mosquitos/Ticks Attractant(Away From People) & More. Refrigerators Were Originally Just Insulated “Ice Boxes”. Cooled Simply By Placing A Large Block Of Ice Inside. Common In American Homes, Between 1835-1935. Until Our Modern Electricity Powered Refrigerators Were Perfected & Popularized.

Thanks for Sharing. The "dust" hasn't settled on these new emerging options and I like the portability of a portable generator, without spending too much money for something generally rarely needed. My boss got a portable 220v generator but it's gas only, not multi fuel(for propane as well), he probably should have got instead. But we are in CO and don't get hurricanes that can take out power in very large areas, making gasoline hard to find in a prolonged event. I do like that it's portable because our city can have isolated outages where you might need to take the generator to help a friend who is only effected.

Oh another option I now see, especially in the future may be using an electric or a hybrid electric's battery to power a building during an outage. Thanks

Great info AlaMoi thanks. Yes well the generator we had didn't start because of the lacquer problem I believe. Took lots of starter fluid and such. We realized later when we went to run it dry of gas to avoid the lacquer problem in storage, the fuel cut off valve would drip(and keep the engine running). We had to replace the little valve so this won't happen again. We did find it cheap online. Wow gas pumps not being able to pump the gas in the ground. Sounds like quite a mess. Yes a Siphon hose would be very handy then thanks. I may buy one. Guess that's why a generator that runs on both gas and propane is handier. Natural gas generally continues at buildings is my understanding they have generators to keep the gas going(or the gas is under natural pressure) if the lines aren't broken due to like an earth quake. The gas line could run the generator for as long as you needed in extreme outages. But doesn't seem generators which can run on the natural gas line of your building are sold in stores.. Interesting.. Thanks for mentioning why the generator has to be monitored if running close to max with appliances/motors. I'm going to add that as a sticker explaining why. The generator will be stored in a shed. I might also buy a very affordable cover on aliexpress. I'm like the handyman and just gathering info for action and directions on things. If the owner had purchased one size larger generator model, it would have had the electric start motor. I like your back feed plug method as long as you turn off the main switch, cool. thanks

Cool Interesting idea to see restaurants equipped to be shelters for the public. Thanks for the input.

Hi, I'd like to open a discussion to explore & share actions and solutions to the problem us restaurants face in an unexpected power outage, to minimize impact, damage and loss of income and be more prepared. - Background: We had a power outage recently due to a bad wind storm damaging our city's electric lines. It lasted almost a full day. As the temperature in our stand up refrigerators was surely rising, our walk in frig. held better and our freezers as well. Of course we kept the doors shut or opening to a minimum. Yet the clock was ticking and not knowing when the power would be restored. Of course the restaurant couldn't even open. We rushed and moved some food(was an ordeal moving it) to from one Building to another and had an electrician temporarily wire into our circuit breaker in the other building with a 220v gas generator. The generator we had, wouldn't start(we did get it started later), so we also had to rush to Home Depot to purchase another. The old generator was only a 110v so it might not have met our needs for the walk in. The electrician temporarily disconnected the circuit box main breaker(turned off) from the power grid so no power would enter the utilities system and shock the city workers repairing the lines, wherever the faults were in our city. This allowed the building's power and units to come back on and bring the temperature back to normal unit the power came back on a few hours later. Of course we had to shut off non essential items in the building because the generator was a smaller portable unit. - So Well, In hind sight and to prepare for another future event, we need to make a plan of actions. Also depending on the length of outage etc. - Can I get input and knowledge and experiences sharing on this subject? - I mean, can we do better/more/missing options? Like we do have 2 ice makers which always have full bins. We could have moved that ice into refrigerators to help maintain temperature. We also had some frozen "rapid cooling water paddles" in a freezer we could have moved to different units to help maintain their temperature. Also dry ice is available in some of our local grocery stores(if not sold out). Yet these frozen items might make the refrigerator too cold and damage sensitive food... Especially the super cold dry ice I suppose perhaps....although it is commonly used in coolers for recreation. But must be wrapped in newspaper/cardboard I've read, to avoid damage to the cooler bottom surface material. Perhaps we didn't even need a generator for one day of being without power. Although it seems these alternatives I speak of might not last long. Perhaps they should be implemented for a short expected outage. If we had outages more often, I suppose we would want to fill refrigerators and freezers with like Gell bags(gourmet to home food boxes often contain) to absorb the temperature and act as a cold sink to prolong the inside temperature during an outage. I believe the refrigerators need a max of 40 degrees F to maintain food and the freezers shouldn't thaw, yet that can take longer. I'm guessing the health department is just focused on not letting the temperature rise too much and for too long. It seems a waste to have a large gas generator sitting stored, which might not be needed often at all. Yet these new pricey lithium battery generators probably can't power so many cooling units or for long. It seems nothing very affordable could power the restaurant to keep it going/fully open. I mean it would have to power virtually everything. The high electricity users such as the 220v espresso machine, ALL the refrigerators, freezers, ice makers, dishwashers, stereo system, Sandwich grills. Thinking out of the box, allowed us to help a friend who lost power some years ago. To power his residential refrigerator with no available generator. We used a 12v power inverter attached to his car battery with the engine running and an extension cord. We were able to turn it on whenever his frig temp started to rise. He was without power for a week, with no food loss. But the inverter couldn't power much more than that. I know I've read that solar yard lights can be brought in to provide light inside a home at nite, and then brought back outside in the daytime to recharge, which is clever. Just looking for the prudent sweet spot solutions in all this and a deeper look into what I shared and what I've missed. Thank you Jim

We care about our staff and these concentrated chemicals can dangerous and even cause permanent blindness or eat through your gas pipe next to the range(don't ask how we know!). Their SDS's are too long to print/post or even read/remember. So we made this simple all encompassing sign to post, all compressed nicely down. Thought we'd share for those like minded: COMMERCIAL DISHWASHER’S 3 LIQUID-CHEMICALS HANDLING/WARNINGS These Are Highly Concentrated, NOT Like Your Home’s Mild & Slow Dishwasher Products. *Hazards: Chemical Skin Burns/Holes/Permanent Blindness* A Delayed/Sudden Burning Sensation Can Be Indicative Of Skin Exposure. Handle With Care & Avoid Exposure. Wear PPE, Eye Glasses, Gloves & Long Sleeves. Immediately After, Thoroughly Water Rinse/Mild Soap Wash: Hands/Any Potentially Exposed Skin Areas/Clothing & Spills. Eye Exposure: Water Rinse For 15+ Minutes. Remove Contact Lense If Present, Once Easy To Do. For A Serious Exposure/If Needed: Seek Medical Attention Protect Containers From: Damage/Fall/Impact. Acids/Other Purpose Chemicals. The Reach Of Children. Remedy Any Leaks & Avoid Stacking. May be Highly Corrosive To Pipes/Metals. Store In Suitable & Properly Labeled Containers. 1. DETERGENT: Removes & Suspends Soils & Grease/Oil. Typically Contains: A Very Strong Alkaline Formula, Such As Sodium Hydroxide. 2. RINSE AID: Speeds Drying, & Reduces: Hard Water Spots/Streaks. Need For Hand Drying/Polishing, For A Sparkling Shine. Typically Contains: Citric Acids, Alcohols And Other Things To Help Water Slip Off. Concentrated Rinse Aid Is Relatively Skin Safe, Compared To Detergent Or Sanitizer. 3. SANITIZER: Germicide/Disinfectant. Typically Contains: Chlorine Based Bleaching Agents. Never Allow This To Mix With Acid/Ammonia: Creates A Dangerous Chlorine Gas. (For Ingestion & More Info: See Mfg’s Online S.afety D.ata S.heet) = Take Care! COMMERCIAL DISHWASHER’S 3 LIQUID-CHEMICALS HANDLING/WARNINGS These Are Highly Concentrated, NOT Like Your Home’s Mild & Slow Dishwasher Products. *Hazards: Chemical Skin Burns/Holes/Permanent Blindness* A Delayed/Sudden Burning Sensation Can Be Indicative Of Skin Exposure. Handle With Care & Avoid Exposure. Wear PPE, Eye Glasses, Gloves & Long Sleeves. Immediately After, Thoroughly Water Rinse/Mild Soap Wash: Hands/Any Potentially Exposed Skin Areas/Clothing & Spills. Eye Exposure: Water Rinse For 15+ Minutes. Remove Contact Lense If Present, Once Easy To Do. For A Serious Exposure/If Needed: Seek Medical Attention Protect Containers From: Damage/Fall/Impact. Acids/Other Purpose Chemicals. The Reach Of Children. Remedy Any Leaks & Avoid Stacking. May be Highly Corrosive To Pipes/Metals. Store In Suitable & Properly Labeled Containers. 1. DETERGENT: Removes & Suspends Soils & Grease/Oil. Typically Contains: A Very Strong Alkaline Formula, Such As Sodium Hydroxide. 2. RINSE AID: Speeds Drying, & Reduces: Hard Water Spots/Streaks. Need For Hand Drying/Polishing, For A Sparkling Shine. Typically Contains: Citric Acids, Alcohols And Other Things To Help Water Slip Off. Concentrated Rinse Aid Is Relatively Skin Safe, Compared To Detergent Or Sanitizer. 3. SANITIZER: Germicide/Disinfectant. Typically Contains: Chlorine Based Bleaching Agents. Never Allow This To Mix With Acid/Ammonia: Creates A Dangerous Chlorine Gas. (For Ingestion & More Info: See Mfg’s Online S.afety D.ata S.heet) = Take Care!

Thank you for the conversation. I found the fix seems to be we bent the tips of both blades Down some. The staff says it seems to move the food down through the blade enough now, even when filled to capacity. We first loosened the attaching screws some as not to allow bending force to by chance crack the plastic center cone. Then we used 2 large pliers on one blade at a time. Take care

Ok thanks for the discussion and suggestions. The solution I found after bending the blades a bit several times per suggestions on this site and another is: I bent the 2 S blade’s 2 tips down. Because the food simply needs to get pulled down. And the S blade really can’t be bent much anywhere except for the tips. Even when placed in a vice bench. The spinning blades are throwing food out to the container walls but the blade must also pull food down to circulate it through the S blade. The staff says it is working alright now, problem solved. When I bent the tips, I didn’t bend too much but it is visible yet the bottom blade does not touch the bottom of the container there is still clearance. Also I made sure to loosen the metal S blade’s attachment to the plastic center cone screws to avoid any possible cracking of the plastic while flexing the blade tips. I always gripped the metal blade only with large pliars. Thanks again.

We are using the correct lid for the S blade per the manual. What I mean is the staff wouldn’t fill the container much because they found the food processor S blade wouldn’t pull the upper area down to chop it up properly.

No, they have stamped in them “this side up”.

Hi Just looking for Any insight and direction to this situation: Small commercial kitchen with a non-convection, 36" Wide, 6 stove burners SouthBend Brand Range Oven, Model# 300F that needs some replacement parts because some of the burner's pipes are rusted through. Also some gas leaks out of the burner knobs(I think that just needs to be taken apart and re-graphite greased). SO I see for just one replacement for the rusted burner is $487 on Amazon(had the best price found): Amazon.com: Southbend Range C50-00006 Stainless Steel Rear Burner : Appliances Amazon.com: Southbend Range C50-00006 Stainless Steel Rear Burner : Appliances www.amazon.com This range has other rusted through parts that need replacing. These crazy prices are cost prohibitive and makes the purchase of a new range make sense. Especially when I see what looks like a similar size SouthBend range for as low as $2700: https://www.katom.com/348-S36DNG.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BROI%5D%20Shopping%20-%20PMax%20-%20Push%20Harder%20SKUs&utm_id=17563307644&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA9dGqBhAqEiwAmRpTC5r0Sk2TV3a9gQphyAU5t1vd7g73hA1hzlARR3pYLeDuOZM51bxOPxoCweQQAvD_BwE Yet another similar size SouthBend models are $6000, don't understand why: https://www.katom.com/348-4364DNG.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=%5BROI%5D%20Shopping%20-%20PMax%20-%20Push%20Harder%20SKUs&utm_id=17563307644&utm_content=&utm_term=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA9dGqBhAqEiwAmRpTC6fDZOhahtkdX_Ewl6rCqOM8HXgfG6hyjjAd50FTLbuVSSCW8e7FLhoCnpEQAvD_BwE SouthBend 300F Manual-(Owner/Service/Parts/Schematic Wiring): https://static-pt.com/modelManual/SOU-CO-300_spm.pdf?v=1655476559196 Q's: 1. Are the replacement parts prices so high because its an old model(not sure how old) or does SouthBend price Gouge their parts? 2. Should we shop for a new Range instead of replacing parts on this old range? 2a. What Range brands are recommended (for price, reliability, serviceability, parts price/availability? 3. Are we missing something here or not understanding something about this situation? THANK YOU FOR ANY REPLIES! Take care Jim

Hi, Any suggestions?!: Our new Waring by Cuisinart Commercial Food Processor Model# FP2200 is not Pulling the upper food down properly to Cutting it all to size when using the supplied S blade. It won't turn the peas into Humus! This is causing our staff not to use this pricey machine! This S blade does have an upper small "wing" that doesn't seem to do much of anything. The blades look straight, sharp and are new... The blades do have screws and so are removable from the center plastic cone they are affixed to. So I can remove them and bend in a vice if that might help. But which way to bend them... The blades spin counter clockwise when turned on. I have called Waring customer service for a different matter in the past and they were no help whatsoever.. Anyone have an idea what to do/alter? Thank-You!