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I've been doing a lot of cooking on my Control Freak using the probe lately. When I heat up liquids (like when scalding milk), I'd really like to do it with a lid on the pans so that I don't have to stir much/at all. Has anyone found good pot lids which have a hole for a temperature probe--and which work well with the Control Freak's probe? I'm mostly using 24cm Falk induction-compatible pans, so that's the size I'm looking for more than any other. My backup option is a Dremel and some small-diameter rubber food-safe gaskets. But I would really rather not drill holes in stainless steel lids. Does anyone have tips on Control Freak probe-compatible lids?

Very cool. I appreciate these articles; they have helped me immensely when evaluating products for my own use. For what it's worth, I have the Nesco Deluxe Food VS-12. It has been one of the most reliable and easiest to use vacuum sealers I have seen. I understand what the article said about not having a removable tray, but honestly I've never had an issue where I needed one and it's not hard to wipe out. The thing just works, works really well and feels like it's never going to break. It can also do pulse vacuum sealing with the external hose which really won me over. For zip-style bags and containers, I tried the Fresh & Save gear for a while. I really loved their industrial design and ease of use, but the bags and containers I vacuum sealed kept losing their seal inside the fridge and freezer. I switched to Luvele's vacuum containers instead; they're a little more expensive, but the vacuum pressure on them is also a lot stronger (thanks in part to the strength of the stainless steel lids) and the overall quality is pretty stellar. Speaking of Luvele, I heard that they're bringing their vacuum sealer to the US market very soon. You may want to reach out to them to see if they're willing to spare a unit to include in your testing next year.

I know you're not looking at induction stoves, but I thought I'd throw in a few thoughts just to give you more info for your decision: A lot of induction stoves provide really poor user experiences, especially around temperature/intensity control and doubly so when they have a single small coil. I understand your pain. I have two Breville Control Freaks. The temperature controls are dead on, and a low consistent simmer is stupid simple. I'm looking at a 3600W Hatco induction unit (which has 100 levels of intensity and should have fairly good temperature control). I'm also looking at a 3800W Vollrath 4-series induction unit (which has similar intensity controls plus it's designed to work with woks). Plus there are wok-shaped induction units from Mr. Induction etc. I know that all of the above are probably not what you're looking for (since you're mostly looking for a built-in range). So I'll also point you at the Thermador Freedom Induction cooktop which has dozens of small coils that combine together to offer large burners and high-powered burners. Unfortunately it only has 17 levels of power--which is honestly probably enough--but I'm not sure how accurately it would simmer. I used to be a huge fan of gas. I know that induction has its pros and cons vs. gas, but it has really won me over with the consistent quality, low energy use and lack of waste heat in my kitchen. Any time a friend is buying a new range as a long-term purchase, I at least try to make sure they know about the modern induction options. In any case, I am looking forward to hearing what you install. Please take photos for us

Regarding the Hatco and Vollrath units, one of my concerns is controlling the heat ramping speed. On the Breville Control Freak, when I set a target temperature I also set a heat intensity (slow, medium or fast). So I get to control how much energy is going into the pan when the pan is being heated. With the Hatco, the video on their product page shows that I can set a power intensity to cook with until a temperature is reached in custom programs. But their manual (on page 14) seems to say that I can only used timed programs, based on either power intensity OR target temperature. And when just using the machine ad-hoc, the demos also make it seem like I either have to set the power level OR the target temperature. That worries me, as there are lots of times that I want to ramp up to a temperature slowly (like when I'm making yogurt). And I don't want to have to create a new "program" every time I cook, to do both at the same time (if that's even possible on the Hatco). And with the Vollrath, well, this is what they say in their manual (on page 5). "When heating delicate foods, start with a lower temperature and gradually increase temperature." That makes me think that I would basically end up just using the machine as a boiling/searing machine. And if I ever wanted to do temperature control and didn't want maximum heat intensity, I'd basically need to stand there nudging the temperature dial a little bit at a time. 🤦‍♂️ Does anyone know of another commercial-quality induction burner that's high wattage and also lets me control both power intensity and target temperature at the same time? Bonus if it will also show me both the probe and pan temperature while it's cooking.

I currently have two Breville Control Freaks (1800W, 120V) and need to pick up a third induction stovetop. I'm thinking that it probably makes sense to pick up a high-wattage unit (3600W-3800W, 240V) which would be useful for boiling water, heavy searing work, wok cooking, etc. I have a collection of Falk induction-compatible copper pans. The pans with bottom diameters of 11.5cm to 26cm work pretty great. But I also have a few that I bought for the oven which are a little bit too small (10.5cm bottom diameter) or a bit too large (28-35cm bottom diameter) for the Breville cooktops. Plus it would be nice to have a cooktop that can work in either power output % mode or temperature control mode. I'm looking at the following two cooktops: Hatco IRNG-PC1-36 (3600W, 240V) (eG-friendly Amazon.com link) Vollrath HPI4-3800 (3800W, 240V) (webstaurantstore.com) @cgman117 mentioned the Hatco unit (thank you). At just over half the price of the Vollrath, it seems to do just about everything the Vollrath can do--plus it'll work with my smallest and largest induction-compatible copper pans. I know that the Vollrath unit is about 5% more powerful and that it's supposed to be able to deliver energy to the pan even when the pan is lifted above the induction plate (useful for my Falk 28cm Wok, for some sautéing, etc.). But the Hatco unit is basically the same size as my Control Freaks, whereas the Vollrath unit is bulkier. I've also heard that the Vollrath units like to run their fans all the time, even when off, which would require me to install a switch to turn on/off its power. Has anyone here had experience with one or both of these? Which one would you get for your home?

I understand the conundrum. I bought a 4.7 quart copper wok (28cm) to make some Korean recipes and ended up realizing it was ALMOST the perfect size for making a gallon of yogurt. The 4 quarts of milk fit fine, but the temperature probe's holder didn't fit "above" the milk line. And I wanted a bigger-diameter bottom for more induction contact and a smaller-diameter top to reduce evaporation. I ended up picking up a 6.1 quart (24cm) pot-au-fue that fits the bill. It's kind of like a saucier with taller walls (or a dutch oven with a curved saucier-style bottom). Then I realized that if I just had a smaller (20cm) pot-au-fue, I'd have the perfect-sized vessel for making half a pound of pasta for myself (and with an optimal top diameter, to reduce evaporation). Ironically I'm not planning to make any actual pot-au-fue with the pans. 🤷‍♂️ And now you've alerted me to the presence of a 4 quart rondeau... All y'all are a bunch of enablers. 😆 😊 I'm going to have to rethink the budget, post-holidays.

It looks like the Control Freak is back on sale at 20% off in the U.S. JB Prince sent me an email saying that the sale runs from December 1st through December 14th. Breville, Amazon and several other resellers are currently offering the Control Freak (US model) for ~$1200. Breville PolyScience Control Freak (eG-friendly Amazon.com link) Aargh, do I really need a third unit? 😭

That's both a good question @weinoo and a really hard one to answer. Cooking is a complex emotional topic. For some people, eating the foods they grew up with brings back powerful emotions. For others, using handed-down family pans or cooking the way that mom did binds people and memories together. For others like me, cooking is both a way to always have a consistent quality of tasty food and also a way to keep my mind active learning new things. Before realizing that cooking is basically applied physics and chemistry, I was a pretty terrible cook. I could make edible eggs and sometimes I could cook edible pancakes. I bought a cheap sous vide machine to make steak and that was pretty game changing. Then I got an oven and started warming up higher-quality frozen meals. Maybe I didn't pay attention when my mom tried to teach me how to make food that was more sophisticated than PB&J. Or maybe my brain just needs to understand things at a scientific level before things make sense at the normal everyday applied level. As for food quality, the food I make turns out as good as homemade food made for me by people who know what they're doing and sometimes as good as pretty darn good restaurants. But none of that is my skill as a chef. All of it is applied science, combined with good equipment and repeatable instructions (some of which I have now managed to cobble together myself, but a lot of which I've adapted from recipes). Most of the things I cook use set temperatures on the stove or processes which are based on grams, time, temperature and changes in state. When I run into complicated variables like cooking different thicknesses of meat, I switch techniques and use sous vide so that I can either just input the thickness into a calculator to get the cooking time or I can stick a probe in the meat and do delta cooking. The food turns out good. I am happy. But I'm still planning to learn how to cook a steak on a stovetop one day, as I want a faster way to do it if someone I care about is really hungry and what they really want is steak. And also because learning new techniques is fun. The real test for me will be if I can eventually get to the point where I understand food science well enough to create completely original recipes. Right now I feel like I do a lot of adaptations of existing recipes to hit the macronutrient targets I'm looking for and for repeatability. But what I really want to be able to do is look at a bunch of ingredients in the fridge and be able to create a dish out of them that's not fried rice. There's a forum or two here which I hope will help me with that. In the meantime, I've found copper pans. And copper pans are helping me make good food because I can get very repeatable results on an induction stove, with high responsiveness. They're also making me smile a lot because, well, they're copper. Don't ask me why copper makes me happy. I think it's the science. But I'm okay with just adoring something for being what it is. BTW, it's true that the hallmark of a chef is probably that they can cook on a crappy random stove with any available pan and make something delicious. I hope to be able to be a good enough scientist-cook to be able to design recipes that make delicious meals, but I don't know that I'll ever be a real chef by the traditional metrics. It's a non-goal for me, although it's something I seriously respect.

You bring up some good points, @AlaMoi. I learned a lot about materials and pan thicknesses by reading this post: The post is a little out of date (as there are some newer construction methods which are a little different, and also because I think some of the pans out there are using less material to save on costs) but only a little--and the science is pretty spot on. Honestly I hadn't even thought about some of the stuff in there (some of which you just adeptly also stated in your post). BTW, I bow down to your natural gas proficiency I'm a bit of an odd duck here, because I think of cooking as applied physics and chemistry. Instead of writing down recipes, I make digital execution plans which rely on the stovetop doing a lot of work that a chef normally does, to get repeatable results. I use a scale to weigh ingredients even when I'm whipping up pancakes for breakfast. I've never learned to be a good human thermometer (which is like a third of normal training for a chef), relying instead on induction and pan/probe temperature control to do all of that for me. So you, my friend, get lots of kudos and points in my book for also being able to gauge all of that with your senses. Some would say those are the hallmarks of a true chef. I'm more of a scientist-cook. I don't know if copper reacts differently on a gas stove than on induction because I haven't ever used copper on a gas stove. I do know that gas can deliver enormous amounts of heat. And I do know that the induction-compatible copper pans I bought transfer 1600-1700 watts of power almost instantaneously to the ingredients in my pan (even moreso with a higher-wattage induction burner), whereas other pans I tried could not. When I set my induction burner to keep the pan temperature at 100 C (212 F), I can "see" the coil pulsing on and off because the water boils faster and slower in rhythm with the induction coil at that temperature barrier. It's kind of wild. That right there was my "ah ha" moment with copper. Based on the article posted above, thicker copper should in theory hold heat a little bit longer and it should provide an even more even heating surface. For me, I'm mostly looking for responsive heat and precision. I want to be able to pour milk into a stew pan, press a button, and know that the milk will warm up to 82C to pasteurize and to denature the proteins, then drop back down to 42C before beeping at me so I can add the yogurt culture and cover the pot with a cheesecloth. And then it'll happily count down 24 hours while maintaining 38C to incubate my yogurt and beep at me again after a day to put the finished yogurt in the fridge--even if I'm nowhere near the kitchen. I know that people do that (or at least the first part) with other stoves, and they do it without copper pans. But boy, I love the convenience and I love the taste of consistent results Regarding holding heat, you also make good points there regarding thickness etc. A thick aluminum pan can do great (even better than a thin copper pan) at providing even heat--and it can hold onto heat even better. For times when I want to hold heat, sear, etc. I turn to my Kuhn Rikon Duromatic saute and soup/stockpots. Those have high quality thick disc bases which I believe are aluminum and they do a pretty darn good job. They won't, however, let me turn on the stove and start cooking in 20 seconds and they're more fidgety when it comes to creating digital cooking programs (since they are not very responsive), but they have no copper in them and they excel at what they do. But unlike copper, I get very little joy out of using them (as useful as they are); maybe I'm just a sucker for pretty things, and for equipment that responds to me in real time. afs

I didn't finish my Black Friday order until earlier this week, so my new copper pans aren't here yet. But here's the 18cm saucier I picked up a while ago. It's seen a ton of use, so please pardon the dirt. And the dust. So much dust around here. Compared to yours, the copper on the ones I bought is a little more subtle. I'm really glad Falk left it fully exposed around the rim though. Not just because it's pretty, but because I had my calipers handy (to make sure I got as much copper as I paid for!) 👼 afs

I'm totally with you on the whole cleaning thing. For cleaning my blender, I ended my frustration by buying a Blendtec Stealth. Usually all I have to do to clean it is put a little soap and water in the blender jar and then "blend" the water for a few seconds and rinse. In worst-case scenario (i.e. peanut butter) I just clean the thing like I would an open-top water jug. Still...not as quick as cleaning an immersion blender On the topic of immersion blenders, someone mentioned the Robot Coupe MicroMix a few pages back. I love Robot Coupe's slicers, and I had no idea they made an immersion blender. And it has a detachable wand, the one thing I wish my Bamix had--plus it looks like it has a bunch of speed options like the Breville. Unfortunately it also has the price of a nice Bamix Has anyone used the MicroMix immersion blender by any chance? I'm really tempted to put it on my wish list for 2023, but I have no idea if Robot Coupe does as good of a job with their immersion blenders as they do with some of their other equipment.

Is that the 20cm sauce pan? I picked up a 20cm dutch oven (and a few other items) during that same sale...which I think is basically the same size and shape of pan but with two helper-style handles on it. Your photo is pretty great (and with some good looking Staub in the background). I'd offer to take a photo of my adopted induction-compatible copper, but I'm really quite terrible at taking photos. I'm much better at making charts. 😭 Regarding Bar Keepers Friend (BKF), yeah. I don't know what Falk does to the inside of these pans, but soap and water (or frankly just warm water and a plastic Lodge scraper) seem to keep them clean inside. Except when I cook bacon. Oh boy, that's when I pull out my BKF (which I refer to as "bacon grease eraser") afs

I picked up the Breville BSB510XL Control Grip Immersion Blender. It worked really well for a while, and then it died. Which made me quite sad, because it has a very comfortable grip and it has like 10 levels of speed settings. I ended up moving into the prosumer/commercial realm and picked up a Bamix instead. It's a bit of a pain to clean, and it only has two speeds, but boy is it reliable. [They have a few models, and a few attachments for frothing vs mixing, etc.] Bamix G200 Gastro Pro-2 Professional Immersion Hand Blender (eG-friendly Amazon.com link) I'm a big Breville fan (and use a Control Freak for most of my cooking). Maybe I just got a bad unit, or maybe most consumer electronics are just designed to last "until the warranty expires, and a bit longer." I really don't know. Your results may and probably will vary. afs

I'm going to be a bit of a contrarian on copper. Hopefully it doesn't get me expelled for heresy. I'm a scientist and I do all my cooking on precision induction cooktops (e.g. PolyScience Control Freak, and soon Vollrath 4-series to a lesser extent), so I may be an odd man out here. My journey to copper came because I wanted a pan I could use for precision cooking (i.e. highly responsive pans, with even heat or gradient heat distribution). I started out with ceramic pans (which wore out quickly), moved onto cast iron (which basically gave me a ring of heat instead of a nice heat gradient--and which did not respond to temperature changes quickly at all) and then onto stainless steel. Out of options, I decided that fully-clad stainless steel pans were probably the way to go. But then I found out that De Buyer has induction-compatible copper pans in their Prima Matera collection. I know from training that copper is the second-most conductive element for heat transfer, and I was hoping that induction-compatible copper would give me good pan responsiveness. But while I do love pretty things, I am not good enough friends with Bar Keepers Friend to buy copper-exterior pans. I had a hard enough time keeping my cast iron from rusting. I'm just not ready for a long-term relationship with copper (although I know others are, and I totally get it...copper really is pretty). My De Buyer Prima Matera research led me to finding Falk, and I found out they make "Copper Coeur" induction-compatible copper pans. Except theirs have a thin induction-compatible stainless steel exterior pressure-bonded onto the copper pans...basically exactly what I was looking for. So I've ended up with copper pans for 90% of my pans (for 90% of my cooking, where I want precise temperature control and rapid responsiveness). For the other 10%, I picked up a handful of Kuhn Rikon Duromatic (thick-bottom pans). Those work extremely well as pressure cookers of course, but they also serve as a good saute pan for searing meat (while retaining lots of heat and distributing pretty heat evenly across the base) and as good stockpots and sterilization vessels. For me, the mix works. Maybe 3mm copper pans could have served the role that Duromatic serves for me; if it was induction compatible, I'd love to try. I'm only a few months into using copper, but I'm pretty hooked. The performance of the induction stovetop and copper pans together is kind of ridiculous. The funny (heretical?) thing is that most people have no clue that my copper pans are wearing a mostly stainless steel disguise until they lift them (since copper is, well, not light). My main complaint with them is that they're hand-wash only, but I've come to terms with that by this point. I hope you all will welcome me into the copper club, even though I'm here because I love the science of copper rather than the beauty. But if I get expelled for loving copper for all the wrong reasons, I just ask that you'll let me lurk in the corner instead, and remain my scientist-heretic self. afs

@palo -- to add to what @kelvie said, electrical devices are typically designed to run on a maximum of 80% of a circuit's capacity or less. A typical "120V 15A" device will generally use less than 12A of power. The Control Freak pushes the boundaries of energy usage for a 15A device. I have tested my US units on a few meters. It pulls up to around 14 amps (1600-1700 watts) and it might peak beyond that. I understand that PolyScience used the 20 amp plug in Canada because of that. In the U.S. we got the standard 120V 15A plug, with a warning not to plug into extension cables. Extension cables often use a thinner gauge of wire than the normal gauge used for the circuit. For instance, a lot of extension cords for 120V 15A outlets use 16 gauge (instead of 14 gauge or better) and are rated for 13 amps. Again, multiply that by 80% and you shouldn't be pushing more than 10.4 amps through it continuously. And because it's an extension cord and there are multiple couplings (places where you're plugging things into other things), you should derate it even more. The Control Freak probably comes with a warning saying to plug it into the wall directly, not to use anything else on the same circuit, etc. I actually run mine on an extension cord, knowing that it's not optimal, but I also used 10/12 AWG wire (which is rated for a continuous 20A/15A respectively) and really high-quality connectors. I can't in good conscience recommend you do the same. Plug it into the wall if you can. As for your 20 amp plug... If it came with a 20A plug, you probably want to continue using a 20A plug unless you know what you're doing. The wires in the cord may be too thick in diameter to safely attach to a 15A plug. It sounds like you have a 20A receptacle and are working with 20A connectors so you're already good in this regard. For others who aren't lucky enough to have 20A outlets in the kitchen, the best thing to do is to replace the problem outlet with a 20A outlet (and with a 20A circuit breaker at the box). With the exception of UK plugs (which use circuit breakers in the plug to protect the device locally), circuit breakers in the US and Canada are there to protect the wires themselves. The wattage rating on the circuit and on the wire is there to keep it from overheating, from catching fire, etc. If you plug multiple machines into the same circuit, the breaker should flip if you go over the wattage, but I prefer to use circuit breakers as an emergency backstop rather than as a mode of limiting power. I hope it's okay to reply to a post from a few months back on this thread. I looked at the rules and didn't see anything prohibiting it; if I broke an unwritten rule by responding to something older I apologize. I just hate seeing questions without complete answers (although in this case kelvie gave a nice contribution as well). afs

@Tropicalsenior You had me at "absurdly". Good recommendation. I just followed the topic. Thanks for the warm welcome!

Hey all! I'm a food science nerd and a foodie who believes that the only kind of cooking worth doing is well-executed cooking. Unless of course one is starving--in which case, sure, go ahead and warm up some Chef Boyardee. I've benefitted a lot from the posts here (especially the Control Freak and other precision cooking posts). You guys and gals have helped guide my journey to find the right gear for my little test kitchen. Unfortunately, I have now also accumulated quite a bit of gear (induction cooktops, induction-compatible copper cookware, induction-compatible pressure cookers, sous vide equipment, etc.). Curses! I'll try to keep up with what all y'all are making, and I'm happy to share some of my own "in grams and degrees C" recipes. My apologies to my fellow Americans, if I don't always convert to ounces and degrees C. As I'm mostly into precision cooking, I might be most useful around here by responding to otherwise-unanswered questions on those topics. I'm also always up for "hey, can you tell me how long X liters of water takes to boil in Y pan" questions, if I happen to have the equipment here. I can make charts. Sometimes I can even manage a good photo. I am however terrible at drawing illustrations. Like stick man levels of terrible. Anyway, I just wanted to say hello. I'm looking forward to hanging out, officially. afs