ThinkingBartender

I take it that "Immortal Singapore Raffles Gin Sling" is an exaggeration. As well as the origins of the Singapore Sling, I am taking an interest in the names it was called by: Raffles Hotel Sling (Trader Vic - 1948). Raffles Bar Sling (Trader Vic Advert - 1939) Singapore Sling. Singapore Gin Sling. Straits Sling. Hotel Raffles Gin Sling. Cheers! George

Where/ when did the name "Ngiam Tong Boon" first get mentioned as the creator of the Raffles Hotel Singapore Sling? The earliest I have been about to find is 1977, all other references seem to stem from this one mention; any ideas? Cheers! George

Splificator, So, other than printing 3 editions of his own book (privately printed), is there any definite proof that Harry Johnson ever stepped behind a bar? From what you say, everything we know of Johnson comes from him. Could Harry Johnson have been a Walter Mitty character? Cheers! George

Huh. He can't have stayed there long. But I'd be curious to see more on this New Orleans sojourn. The fact that he didn't mention it in his autobiographical notes suggests that its results were not all that he wished. ← Here is what I have: That lady does do her research, so I am sure it is reliable. Plus, I am sure I saw a Gary Regan reference to Harry Johnson being in Nawleans. From what I have seen, Harry Johnson would have been a right nuisance on Wikipedia, especially on entries referring to himself.

Make that "where that cocktail might have been invented. The jury is still out remember.

Johnson attempted to start a bartenders union, in New Orleans, in 1875.

The Turf Club, aka the "Tough Club," was a rather louche gambling club for New York blueblods that occupied the Jerome mansion, occupied much later by the Manhattan Club. ← Why would Harry Johnson make a cocktail, while working in New Orleans, for a Club in New York? Wouldn't he have been making a Turf Club cocktail for the Turf Club in New Orleans? if NOLA had a Turf Club. And by Turf I would assume it meant something to do with Horses and Jockeys.

Its interesting that the Turf Cocktail is specified with French Vermouth (dry) and the Martini is just with Vermouth (sweet?).

I just spotted this in someone elses copy of Robert Vermiere's "Coctails and how to mix them", 1922. Turf Cocktail Fill the bar glass half full of broken ice and add: 2 dashes of Orange Bitters. 2 dashes dashes of Maraschino. 2 dashes of Absinthe. 1/4 gill of Plymouth Gin. 1/4 gill of French Vermouth. Stir up well, strain into a cocktail-glass, add olive. Note especially no squeezed lemon-peel on top. (recipe by Harry Johnson, New Orleans). Was this in Harry Johnson's 1882 edition or his 1900 edition? And either way can it be counted as a Dry Martini, with Olive no less? I don't recount this being discussed before, so I thought I would bring it up. Cheers! George thinkingbartender[at]gmail.com http://www.wiki.webtender.com/wiki/Turf_Cocktail "I call everyone ’Darling' because I can't remember their names." ---Zsa Zsa Gabor

If you want to go on about what tastes better, then a mention for the original Moscow Mule, the Mamie Taylor, must be made. Scotch, Lime, Ginger Beer.

From what I have been able to gather J. G. Martin was the Grandson of Gilbert F. Heublein, and attained the Presidency of G. F. Heublein & Bro. upon the death of his Grandfather in 1937. Can anyone tell me if Martin acquired Smirnoff for $1 or for $14,000; accounts differ. Also does anyone know who "Jack", John A. Morgan, was? Other than being the owner of the Cock N' Bull products and the Cock N' Bull pub, what is his background? Does anyone have any tidbits of information about the people behind the Moscow Mule, not just the drink itself? Cheers! George p.s. today was the 10th anniversary of the Webtender Forums.

Spumante?

Admin: threads merged. From the NYHT, 28 July 1948: Experiment With Vodka Lead to Moscow Mule. Lime Juice, Ginger Beer and Ice Cubes Are Added to Give Potent New Drink. By Clementine Paddleford TEAM WORK--The mule was born in Manhattan but "stalled" on the West Coast for the duration. The birthplace of "Little Moscow" was in New York's Chatham Hotel. That was back in 1941 when the first carload of Jack Morgan's Cock 'n' Bull ginger beer was railing over the plains to give New Yorkers a happy surprise. Here was ginger beer in crockery bottles tasting exactly like that of old England. Cheers! George

The Chronicle Telegram, November 28, 1933: "When Frank of the Paris Ritz comes over to function at the bar of the New York Ritz, his famous drinkery in rue Cambon will be conducted by Harry McElhone, long proprietor of Harry's bar." This has something to do with the opening of the New York Ritz in 1934; and Frank was not the only one to be lending a helping hand at the NY Ritz: Reno Evening Gazette, Mar 7, 1934 "First will come Frank of the Paris Ritz for a few months. Then Harry Craddock of the London Savoy. August of the Adlon and so on." What sort of arrangement is this, that allows the owner of a local, and one would assume rival bar, in charge of one of the most famous bars in the world (even if only for a "few months"). Then to get Craddock as well. *ponders* George

As I recall, you have several of Oscar Haimo's books, ("Cocktail and Wine Digest"); what are his recipes for the 75 Cocktail and French '75? Also, does Frank Meier say when he arrived in Paris? at the beginning of Prohibition perhaps? Frank is famous for working at the Cambon Bar, which was nicknamed "Frank's", but that establishment only opened in 1921.

Another tid-bit about Frank Meier is that he was stricken with gout.

And there was also a Ciro's across the road from Harry's New York Bar.

So as MacElhone doesn't claim the 75 Cocktail, would it be safe to assume that he didn't invent it? Are there any records of Henry (Rue Volney) and his cocktail creations? Cheers! George

Thanks J, That definately helps! and confuses!-)

It seems that MacElhone was being a bit presumptuous, saying that two drinks with similar names are somehow related. Here is, for the record, Robert Vermiere's '75 cocktail. 75 Cocktail * 2 dashes grenadine * 1 teaspoonful lemon juice * 1/6 gill Calvados * 2/6 gill Dry Gin Shake well and strain into a Cocktail glass. "This Cocktail was very well appreciated in Paris during the war. It has been called after the famous light French field gun, and was introduced by Henry of Henry's bar fame in Paris." There was a Henry's bar on the Rue Volnay in Paris, and one would assume there was a Henry to go with it!-) One gun, two drinks, which were not related IMHO. Did Frank Meier list a '75 cocktail in his 1935 book? if so, who did he say invented it? Cheers! George

Does anyone know anything about a cocktail credited to Frank Meier called a “soixante-quinte” (seventy fifth)? "The Washington Post", 29th April 1923 "Like Frank's "soixante quinte" gloomer raiser, the monkey gland requires absinthe to be perfect,..." I did hope that this would be a reference to a French 75 (gin, lemon, sugar, champagne), but the absinthe cuttles that hope. "Soixante quinte" was another term for the fabled French artillery piece. It can't be referring to Robert Vermiere's 75 Cocktail recipe (1922), as that doesn't include Absinthe. Any ideas? Cheers! George

Ummm, isn't that a Perfect Manhattan? ← Manhattan Project. I think it is a variation, the proportions are different. This is almost equal parts of rye and the vermouths. Most of the manhattan recipes I see is usually 2 - 2.5 oz of whisky and 1/2 to 3/4 of vermouth. George started a thread today that we can probably move this conversation over, appropriately entitled: ← I think that the proportions of the Horsecar are too different to that of a perfect Manhattan; which I assume is 2 oz Rye, to 1 oz combined vermouth; easily worked out as a 2:1 ratio. The Horsecar is 1 oz Rye, and 1 1/2 oz combined vermouth; so thats a 2:3 ratio. We could say that the Horsecar is a Heavy Manhattan, and the Perfect Manhattan is a Light Manhattan (yay! I get to use my own terminology!!!)

The Daiquiri, and its variations, seem to be the mainstay of the Tiki movement, so it is hard to discount it. Trader Vic was serving Mojitos back in the 30's. Its all seems to be a mish-mash of styles, kind of hard to put a finger on exactly what it is. Some people are bringing up the fruit juice and syrups experimentation thing, but these have been around for years. Tom Bullock has a few examples. Perhaps Tiki is just a feeling, rather than an actual thing.

1) How does Tiki influence Modern Cocktails? 2) How does Tiki influence you, and what you drink? 3) Do you even know what Tiki is? 4) Whats your favourite Tiki drink? 5) Do you drink at Tiki Establishments? 6) Is Tiki over-rated? Come on lurkers, what is your opinion? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiki_culture http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/ http://wiki.webtender.com/wiki/Category:Tiki_Drinks Cheers! George S.

The most layers I have accomplished was 11; this was made through trial and error, rather than from a recipe. The bottom half of a pousse cafe is sweet, with the top half becoming high-strength alcoholic spirits. The only way of creating a mixological pousse cafe would be to restrict yourself to about 3 layers, and then only use ingredients that compliment each other, as well as floating in a pleasant layer. Also, the drink can be drunk from bottom to top with a straw; or from top to bottom by knocking it back. Which way suits the flavour better?