TCD

I've had some very nice demi sec Vouvrays over the years. Refreshing and delicious, with decent body and weight.

The wine list is no longer solely french and to my recent recollection is propably half US now. With a few exceptions, I find the wine pricing to be quite fair. It's really an outstanding restaurant on all counts. I've dined there alone, with a group of eight and several sizes in between. Each time the service and food have been outstanding. I personally prefer the "raised" dining room on the side closest to the windows, although there really are not any bad seats. Note that with the exception of one round table all seating is banquette.

The eRobertParker.com site has a vintage chart that sets forth regional (not producer) ratings and readiness to drink (as least to Mr. Parker's palate/experience). You can also conduct searchs (the first few for free and thererafter you must subscribe) by producer and other criteria of wines that have appeared in the Wine Advocate. Almost every review contains a maturity estimate.

Adam: I think that there is no right way or wrong way to do this. Your plan as set forth in the initial post seems to be a sound approach. I pretty much buy what I like, mostly at retail and some at auction mainly to give the cellar some well-aged options without the wait or to replenish favorites. At retail I generally buy two to four bottles of a wine. I enjoy many different types of wine and am more interested in breadth than depth of multiple bottles. I keep a list of what I have and attempt to divide it into sections: optimal drinking, drinkable and hold. I generally just open the optimal drinking wines, but will delve into the drinkable (and hold) wines if I need to. My fear, of course, is that too many wines will fall into the optimal range to be enjoyed before they start heading into decline. I don't particularly manage against that happening and, luckily, I don't think I'm in that situation just yet. I guess I don't worry about it as the remedy is fairly simple: host some dinner parties, trade for younger wines or sell at auction. Good luck.

I disagree on both counts. I believe the Rylands Inn's cuisine superior to GT (although not as consistent) and the GT dining experience is overly casual, in my opinion, for a 25th anniversary celebration. However, the Ryland Inn service can be a bit uptight. Accordingly, given the concern regarding Lutece TRI might not be the appropriate place. Although I'm a fan of the Bernard's Inn it is not in the same league as the other restaurants mentioned in this thread. In my several trips to the Four Seasons for dinner I have found the Pool Room simply enchanting at night and the food very good. The service is very fine and polished. Lunch in the Pool Room, on the other hand, has been disappointing as the action (and the focus of the operation) during the day occurs with the captains of industry lunching in the other dining room. Also the room loses its wamth in the daylight. Saturday evenings can be a bit touristy but that is likely true of most places. Fridays are magical. Your friends might also want to consider Daniel (but this is high end French), Caviar Russe, Picholine and March.

The first real goal I established was 500-525 bottles. I have since moved the goal to 625-650 and am currently in the process of talking myself into moving it up to the 1000 range. I currently have approximately 450 bottles.

When Ivan Ruiz was running the front of the house at the Stage House Inn in Scotch Plains, NJ (now at least five years ago), he would present the bottle, get the nod from the ordering patron, retreat to a station in between the dining rooms, open, pour, taste, return to the table, and then pour a taste for the patron.

Benny, of course, spent about 15 years in a federal pen for selling drugs. Upstanding citizen.

You're joking, right?

Mr. W

What do consider to be the south and north boundries of the upper east side?

No beret; pants, yes. However, if tommy is wearing no pants I will likely not be physically in tow or in front of him for that matter. Standing next to him attempting to avoid being arrested with him will likely be the stance I will take.

In my opinion the best restaurant neighborhood or zone in New York City is the northern part of midtown (i.e., the 50s east and west side) with the nod to the east side if asked to choice. Tribeca/Downtown gets honorable mention.

If "most punters have no idea whatsoever whether he is actually correct or not and never will have" then why do you care if they are "PUTTING THEIR FAITH in him [Parker]". If "punters" have no idea about wine but want some guidance in making their selection they are going to rely on someone that has more expertise/experience than themselves. Why not Parker, as opposed to the guy or gal down the hall who "knows something" about wine or the wine merchant. Are these more reliable options? Or are the punters simply weak or wrong for wanting some asssitance? "They are FOLLOWING him-not because they know he's "right" but because they want the wine world simplified for them." No one is right or wrong about wine; it's all a matter of taste. And I don't think any reviewer would declare that their ratings are the ultimate correct answer. Most inexperienced people want a little direction and assistance (and justification) in their wine purchasing as to quality. I don't think anyone buys a wine, hates it and says "well, Parker gave it a 90 so I'm going to buy another case anyway as well as another case of other stuff that Parker rated highly." And if they do, why do you care about these fools? Wine is not an issue of life or death, if people want some asssitance in making wine selections and use Parker or the numerious other raters of wine as a guide for quality because it's "easy", I doubt civilization will be endangered. What do you propose for them to do?

Parker's rating system, just like any other "rating system" not created by oneself (whether it be Zagat's or a five-star movie sytem) is simply a tool for the user. If people decide to use it to supplant the development of their own opinion of a particular subject then that is their poor decision in my opinion. I doubt that people who find the Zagat's books to be unreliable will continue to use them. If people find their palate is not in allignment with Parker, WS, Wine Enthusuast, Tanzer, Coates, Meadows, etc., I assume they will no longer rely on those sources and look elsewhere for guidance. If they do not do so, then they are beyond our help or our concern. With respect to the specificity of Parker's and similar rating system's I do believe that they believe they can distinguish the quality at that level. However, I am confident that they all would admit that there is a small margin of error in such scores. And if that is not the case, most knowledgable users probably do so. I think most wine drinkers beyond the novice level understand that there is not a world of difference between an 88 and a 90 rated wine. A difference for certain but not enough to write off the grader as tastes cannot be in complete alignment in any case. If Parker and others utilized a letter grade with plus/minus such a system would be more realistic but the precision of the numbers does not offend me.

Tommy, You may want to consider checking out www.winespectator.com site. Although I find WS ratings to be less reliable than those of Parker and Rovani, you can perform searches for free for red burgundy in certain vintages to become familar with the higher rated producers and appellations. You could also try erobertparker.com. It's a pay site, but I believe you can run some free trial searches if you register. Generally, it's early to be drinking the 1999s but the '97s are approachable. Also, 1993s are drinking well now and seem to be available in better shops. Note that it was not a strong vintage overall but there are defintely fine drinking options providing good value. 1995 and 1996 were good vintages and with some air time are very enjoyable. I have a list of burgundy producers/negotiants and regions that I provided to some "non-wine" relatives who were interested in giving some bottles as gifts and wanted some guidance. I'll send it to you when I locate it.

Grouse season seems to expire on December 10th, but other fowl is still in season until the end of January. Perhaps sneaking in a random grouse is not too difficult. With respect to Bouley, the Dining section of the NYT yesterday indicated that he is open (or about to reopen) sans Bakery (the dropping of the Bakery had been in the news a few weeks/months back). So "Bouley" the restaurant is back. Fixed price menu until Feb 15th and a la carte thereafter. (Edited by TCD at 8:19 pm on Jan. 31, 2002) (Edited by TCD at 8:20 pm on Jan. 31, 2002)

I certainly agree that any zin (and especially a fruit bomb like Turley) would not exactly be an ideal pairing. For some, turley is a meal in itself. As for drinking in the parking lot, don't forget your Reidel Dixie cups.

I'll even show up (assuming i'm invited) if rosie is bringing 20 bottles from what is widely regarded as the garden state's largest collection of Turley Zins.

Williamsburg Winery produces some well-priced quaffable whites and reds (can't recall the varitials). Not any better than most NJ wines, but visting the winery is not a bad side trip if your in the Colonial Williamsburg area.

I thought I read Bouley Bakery re-opened but I'm not certain. Le Perigord was closed while is completed a re-modeling a year or more ago (architect was the son of the owner). New chef as well, but still somewhat old school. A very comfortable dining experience.

I made a list of my 50 or so "sure thing" spots (for purposes of business, entertaining or requested recommendations) in NYC a few years back and make an effort to update on an annual basis. The list currenly reads as follows (although some places on the list are "overrated" vis-a-vis general hype and zagat numbers, they are still, in my experience, in the current group of the most reliable NYC establishments for an all around strong dining experience): Bellini Bouterin Gramercy Tavern Gotham B&G Daniel Bouley Bakery Aquavit Picholine Molyvos Alison on D'k St Babbo Bayards Blue Water Grill Tabla Carlyle Cavier Russe Cello Chanterelle Craft 11 Madison Park Felidia 57 57 Four Seasons Honmura An Inagiku I Trulli La Caravelle La Cote Basque Le Perigord Lespinasse March Nobu Oceana Peacock Alley (is this still open?) Periyali Petrossian Primavera Rothmann's Savoy Scalini Fedeli Sernya Shun Lee Palace Sushi Yasuda Town Triomphe Tse Yeng U.P. Veritas Jo Jo db (Edited by TCD at 1:43 pm on Jan. 23, 2002)

I've been to db on several occasions and in addition to interesting celebrity sitings (including tommy) this restaurant has delivered an increasingly satisfying dining experience each time. The wine list still needs a little work, however. The cassoulet had on a cold and damp Sunday evening was simply one of the best meals I've ever had.