Nineteen

[-sheila mooney]

Hello from Montreal -- was back in my home town last weekend and dined at Nineteen. We were a party of three (my 2 friends are life-long Philly residents and diners-out) -- all of us exited the dining underwhelmed. Especially by the scattered service, lack of savvy sommelier and the pricey, unremarkable 42-day aged steak. Was this a fluke? Or a strategic error on our part? Just wondering...

[KatieLoeb]

Hello from Montreal -- was back in my home town last weekend and dined at Nineteen. We were a party of three (my 2 friends are life-long Philly residents and diners-out) -- all of us exited the dining underwhelmed. Especially by the scattered service, lack of savvy sommelier    and the pricey, unremarkable 42-day aged steak. Was this a fluke? Or a strategic error on our part? Just wondering...

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Sheila:

Your report on spotty service has been echoed by others I've heard from regarding Nineteen. I haven't heard that the food was bad, just sort of overpriced and disappointing.

The room is gorgeous, however, and is a great place for drinks and the view.

Do you think they need a savvy sommelier??

[Vadouvan]

Laban gave it a great review.....3 bells maybe ?

I have only had lunches there, the $19 lunch is a bargain and most meals have been spot on for the price point. (3 courses).

I am sure dinner and it's prices may set different expectations.....

[Rich Pawlak]

Hello from Montreal -- was back in my home town last weekend and dined at Nineteen. We were a party of three (my 2 friends are life-long Philly residents and diners-out) -- all of us exited the dining underwhelmed. Especially by the scattered service, lack of savvy sommelier    and the pricey, unremarkable 42-day aged steak. Was this a fluke? Or a strategic error on our part? Just wondering...

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Sheila:

Your report on spotty service has been echoed by others I've heard from regarding Nineteen. I haven't heard that the food was bad, just sort of overpriced and disappointing.

The room is gorgeous, however, and is a great place for drinks and the view.

Do you think they need a savvy sommelier??

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It would be my educated (and personally experienced) guess that they do not really have a real sommelier in place.

[Vadouvan]

It would be my educated (and personally experienced) guess that they do not really have a real sommelier in place.

The realities of the romantic expectations of restaurant patrons expecting a qualified person specifically qualified and employed as a "sommelier" doesnt really work with the economics of 98% of all restaurants. There are maybe 8 people total in Philadelphia (myself NOT included)who are "sommeliers" in the classic sense of someone who has actually tasted most if not all the wines and has some basis to suggest pairings with the food beyond studied recitation or a hunch.

Everybody complains about wine markups but they dont account for wineglasses, refrigeration, storage, other logistics and an extra $50k miminum of the restaurants payroll.............THUS restaurants can only bring in consultants to train the staff on pairings specific to what they serve and stock.

Should a place like 19 have a sommelier ?

Perhaps but they dont.......and its an economic reality.

Majority of people only focus on it in restaurants because of the romantic aspect of expertise.......but in truth will rush out and buy anything Robert Parker talks about simply on numerical ratings.

The place that does the most convincing job of giving answers to wine queries is probably Tria and while the place is great at what it does, you can see right through the servers that the answers arent coming from actual passion and connection to the wine, they are reciting what they have been trained to say.

Anything wrong with that ?

Nothing other than once again, it speaks to the fact that the more you know, the better you can control your experiences.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[KatieLoeb]

The realities of the romantic expectations of restaurant patrons expecting a qualified person specifically qualified and employed as a "sommelier" doesnt really work with the economics of 98% of all restaurants. There are maybe 8 people total in Philadelphia (myself NOT included) who are "sommeliers" in the classic sense of someone who has actually tasted most if not all the wines and has some basis to suggest pairings with the food beyond studied recitation or a hunch.

This is sad but true. And it sucks for me in a really big way.

The other problem is that several of those eight people in Philly are young Frenchmen who were specifically imported here from other cities to do that job, rather than letting myself or some of the other qualified WOMEN in town have a shot at the position.

[Vadouvan]

The other problem is that several of those eight people in Philly are young Frenchmen who were specifically imported here from other cities to do that job

Not to make it a ethnic/Nationalist issue but it goes beyond wine Katie.

The unfortunate fact is that Americans sadly *always* defer to Europeans in matters of taste....even if the person doesnt know Jack.

Restauranteurs are still very provincial in thinking........why do you think despite the fact that all the other employees are black, white or mexican, the hostesses in Pan Asian restaurants are always cute asian chicks.........

It's the selling of romanticism and unfortunately the public buys it like gasoline in the summer no matter the cost.I think KL, Melissa,LaurenB and Marnie O are as good as anyone but Americans love accents and male authority that's why it's hard for female sommeliers to be established,

Rigatoni al Amatriciana sounds better to most with a thick Italian accent as does "Moulins a Vent" with a heavy french accent. It's using ethnic gender roles to sell romance.

The trend for wine service in the future is the Train and recite model and I think anyone who reads Andrea Immer's yellow book can figure out the rest on thier own.

[KatieLoeb]

Restauranteurs are still very provincial in thinking........why do you think despite the fact that all the other employees are black, white or mexican, the hostesses in Pan Asian restaurants are always cute asian chicks.........

....I think KL, Melissa,LaurenB and Marnie O are as good as anyone but Americans love accents and male authority that's why it's hard for female sommeliers to be established...

Sadly, I fear you are completely correct about this. But just because I acknowledge it doesn't mean I have to accept it. Or at least any more than I accept the ageism or hiring on looks bullshit. I've been passed over for enough jobs for either men or the size two Twinkies that look cute behind the bar or in the pornographic "uniforms". I'm over it. I only want to work for someone that hires me based on my professionalism, work ethic and skill set.

And thanks for the compliment! I'm in good company with those other ladies. There really are quite a few "vixens of vino" here in Philly and I for one, think that's a very good thing.

The trend for wine service in the future is the Train and recite model and I think anyone who reads Andrea Immer's yellow book can figure out the rest on thier own.

Here is where I respectfully disagree. The staff at Amada is trained by tasting all the wines and the food. Pairing suggestions are given in the notes but all are encouraged to find their own favorite pairings and actually learn a little bit about the mechanics/chemistry of food and wine pairing and be able to apply it in a customer service setting. It's not about the canned speech. It's about guiding the guest experience. When the staff can do that there's no need for a formal on the floor sommelier.

[davidbdesilva]

While I sadly agree with Vadouvan's statements about Americans being taken by sommeliers that are male's with accents and that they will blindly listen to them even if they don't know Jack, this wine drinker would gladly follow Katie or Marnie anywhere and gleefully imbibe my way to wine nirvana!

[CherieV]

Restauranteurs are still very provincial in thinking........why do you think despite the fact that all the other employees are black, white or mexican, the hostesses in Pan Asian restaurants are always cute asian chicks.........

....I think KL, Melissa,LaurenB and Marnie O are as good as anyone but Americans love accents and male authority that's why it's hard for female sommeliers to be established...

Sadly, I fear you are completely correct about this. But just because I acknowledge it doesn't mean I have to accept it. Or at least any more than I accept the ageism or hiring on looks bullshit. I've been passed over for enough jobs for either men or the size two Twinkies that look cute behind the bar or in the pornographic "uniforms". I'm over it. I only want to work for someone that hires me based on my professionalism, work ethic and skill set.

And thanks for the compliment! I'm in good company with those other ladies. There really are quite a few "vixens of vino" here in Philly and I for one, think that's a very good thing.

The trend for wine service in the future is the Train and recite model and I think anyone who reads Andrea Immer's yellow book can figure out the rest on thier own.

Here is where I respectfully disagree. The staff at Amada is trained by tasting all the wines and the food. Pairing suggestions are given in the notes but all are encouraged to find their own favorite pairings and actually learn a little bit about the mechanics/chemistry of food and wine pairing and be able to apply it in a customer service setting. It's not about the canned speech. It's about guiding the guest experience. When the staff can do that there's no need for a formal on the floor sommelier.

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Katie,

I proudly admit to being one of the first female sommeliere's in Philadelphia (with Marnie) in a 4* restaurant. At first I was met with some apprehension from Fountain customers (not to mention Jean Marie) but quickly they were won over and i was accepted. Melissa succeeded me and she really took the Fountain's bev program to the next level and kicked butt as a sommeliere. Personality and knowledge is what matters when it comes down to it and Katie you have both. I really believe the right place will find you and you will shine.

By the way, I have delt with a bev manager at 19 named Jean Marc. He appeared to be the sommelier and he was definately the buyer. Nice guy but was into terrior driven wines which apparently I didn't have. Also, he felt that my yield per acre was a bit high. Wow, what a palate huh.

[Carlson1105]

My wine experience at Nineteen was also poor. We ordered a French Sauvignon Blanc from our server, and this young gentleman with an accent arrived at our table. I gather it may have been the previously mentioned bev manager. He arrived with a South African Sauv. Blanc, saying they were out of my choice. He said it was in the same category (which I found out meant it was the same price). He opened and poured it and it was warm. I informed him of this, and he said that he would put it on ice. He poured us a little and took the bottle away. Looks like they try to be like Babbo by keeping everyone's wines on the raw bar table. After finishing the small amout of warm wine, he was gone, as was our bottle. We were able to ask a busperson for our wine, and she proceeded to empty the whole bottle, filling both of our glaases to the rim. Still warm, we drank it, and never saw this gentleman again. Pretty dissapointing for $50 a bottle.

Food was average, service a little to casual. Thought maybe our server could remember 2 apps and 2 entrees with writing it all down in a notepad. Very pretty room, though not sold on the big plastic pearls ovet the raw bar.

[Vadouvan]

We ordered a French Sauvignon Blanc from our server, and this young gentleman with an accent arrived at our table. I gather it may have been the previously mentioned bev manager. He arrived with a South African Sauv. Blanc, saying they were out of my choice. He said it was in the same category (which I found out meant it was the same price). He opened and poured it and it was warm. I informed him of this, and he said that he would put it on ice. He poured us a little and took the bottle away. Looks like they try to be like Babbo by keeping everyone's wines on the raw bar table. After finishing the small amout of warm wine, he was gone, as was our bottle. We were able to ask a busperson for our wine, and she proceeded to empty the whole bottle, filling both of our glaases to the rim. Still warm, we drank it, and never saw this gentleman again. Pretty dissapointing for $50 a bottle.

My initial post on the "Impact of E gullet" started in a general sense and dealt with a specific incident regarding scallops, I declined to name the restaurant out of fairness since we know in all organizations, Ineptness exists in two forms.

1. Institutionalised Ineptness when it just seems like nobody who works there has clue.

2. Isolated Ineptness when you have one or two jackasses working for you.

I am starting to be inclined to believe that dinner at XIX tends to #1.

First of all.....

WINE.

If you dont have the wine the customer orders,inform them and let them make another choice, do not substitute your judgement no matter what.

It is incredibly rude and borderline deceptive.

In this day and age when you can buy a laser printer for $300, there is no reason why any restaurant should have a wine on its list that isnt actually in the restaurant.

If he was a "sommelier" why is he knowingly serving you warm wine ?

(back to my accent thing)

Why does a busperson and not a waiter or "sommelier" ultimately have to pour the wine ?

AND even buspeople should know you dont pour the whole glass full.

and

2. The twice cooked scallop incident happened there too.

Its just unfortunate because the attitude we were responded to with was incredibly unwelcoming.

Its a shame because it could be a great place.

[KatieLoeb]

I guess this answers my question. They most certainly need a savvy sommeliere.

edited to add:

Cherie, thanks for your faith and support.

As for the finely tuned palate, I remain skeptical. Besides, everyone knows we ladies have much more sensitive palates anyhow.

[Carlson1105]

I agree Vad, the restaurant was able to print my name and happy birthday on the top of my menu, but not able to print an accurate, up to date wine list. However the menu thing was a nice touch. They rolled it up like a scroll and tied it with a ribbon and presented me with it after the meal. Too bad the food and service were mediocre at best, or I would have saved it.

[guzzirider]

Cherie and I have our first anniversary coming up, and I considered giving Nineteen a try. I'm not one to normally write off a restaurant based solely on internet chatter, but I want this dinner to be something a bit special, so it seems Nineteen is out for now. I really hope they can smooth out whatever rough edges are there, becase it really looks like it could be a wonderful place. I still want to check the place out myself, but I'm not about to risk our anniversary dinner on it!

Decided on Vetri instead. I'm reasonably confident that will be nice...

__Jason

[-sheila mooney]

My wine experience at Nineteen was also poor. We ordered a French Sauvignon Blanc from our server, and this young gentleman with an accent arrived at our table. I gather it may have been the previously mentioned bev manager. He arrived with a South African Sauv. Blanc, saying they were out of my choice. He said it was in the same category (which I found out meant it was the same price). He opened and poured it and it was warm. I informed him of this, and he said that he would put it on ice. He poured us a little and took the bottle away. Looks like they try to be like Babbo by keeping everyone's wines on the raw bar table. After finishing the small amout of warm wine, he was gone, as was our bottle. We were able to ask a busperson for our wine, and she proceeded to empty the whole bottle, filling both of our glaases to the rim. Still warm, we drank it, and never saw this gentleman again. Pretty dissapointing for $50 a bottle.

    Food was average, service a little to casual. Thought maybe our server could remember 2 apps and 2 entrees with writing it all down in a notepad. Very pretty room, though not sold on the big plastic pearls ovet the raw bar.

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My co-birthday girl and i loved the pearls. in fact, the day-core and the view were the highpoints of our experience. re: wine = if you have a wine list as long as xix's, you should have a wine steward. that's my just my opinion. i saw the french guy and heard him interact with another table (and yes, i did assume he was the sommelier since he is french and a guy ) but he never came to ours. what disturbed me more was that our young server, who stepped up to the table and introduced himself like he's going to take care of us, literally disappeared until we asked for the check. a whole cast of waiters came with our dishes -- never the same one twice. anyway, people, what about the beef??? are you as dismayed as i am by that high-priced, low-flavor item?

[Scoats]

what about the beef???  are you as dismayed as i am by that high-priced, low-flavor item?

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The fish entree and the dessert I had there could also be described by those exact four words and two hyphens. Beauiful room though.