Please help with cannele recipe

[SethG]

I'm planning to hit Williams Sonoma tomorrow for molds.

I thought New Yorkers here might like to know that you can get beeswax from Nature's Way-- they come to the Brooklyn Grand Army Plaza greenmarket on Saturdays. They don't bring beeswax with them, but it can be special-ordered. They're bringing me some in two weeks, 4 oz. for 75 cents.

[Richard Kilgore]

Thanks for the report, Elie. I had been passing those molds by at W-S, so I went by and picked up eight (55mm) today. (They also had a number of other pieces of pastry equipment on sale, and sometimes it was marked only on the invidual products rather than on the shelves, so it's worth picking things up to check. For example, I noticed a set of 6 non-stick barquetes for$7.99. and a large rectangular Kaiser Spring Pan for $25.)

[Wolfert]

Please keep in mind that bee's wax is highly flammable. There are two safe ways to melt it:put a few chunks of bee's wax along with a little tasteless in a pyrex type cup and heat in a microwave or in a double boiler.

To keep, cover and store the mixture remaining in the cup in a drawer or cupboard.

[jaynesb]

I was in our local Williams Sonoma and saw the tin set [of 4 molds]. They were originally $22.50 and were marked down to $10.99 but the cashier said that they were now $4.99 (so of course I bought 2 sets....)

I'm looking forward to trying to bake canneles sometime soon.

jayne

[ellencho]

Rather late to the party but thought I'd share my cannele success with you guys. I used Malgieri's recipe which is eerily similar to Roux's recipe and since my brother doesn't care for the taste of rum, I substituted an entire orange's worth of zest and an entire vanilla bean.

I pre-froze the molds in my freezer before I added my cold batter. I baked them for an hour in a silicone cannele pan that I bought from amazon.com and they turned out pretty durn good. I had no problems with sinking and no problems with crust formation. The silicone pans are awesome, you don't need to grease them, the canneles pop out quite easily and they're a breeze to clean.

I apologize in advance for the bad lighting, but I used a camera-phone. And also for not showing a pic of a cut cannele. Bad ellen bad!

[boulak]

Rather late to the party but thought I'd share my cannele success with you guys.  I used Malgieri's recipe which is eerily similar to Roux's recipe and since my brother doesn't care for the taste of rum, I substituted an entire orange's worth of zest and an entire vanilla bean.

I pre-froze the molds in my freezer before I added my cold batter. I baked them for an hour in a silicone cannele pan that I bought from amazon.com and they turned out pretty durn good.  I had no problems with sinking and no problems with crust formation.  The silicone pans are awesome, you don't need to grease them, the canneles pop out quite easily and they're a breeze to clean.

I apologize in advance for the bad lighting, but I used a camera-phone. And also for not showing a pic of a cut cannele.  Bad ellen bad!

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I purchased silicone pans in Austria, but have pretty much written them off. I was quite disappointed in the color and the texture of the crust. Mine, like yours, looked quite nice otherwise, but lacked the defining characteristics of traditional canneles. At least the molds were not expensive.

[francois]

Thanks Charlotte, I'll add that one to my wish list. And I'll let you know what happens when I try the recipe.

Sadly, the Nancy Silverton recipe caused the same problem as all the others I've tried. Here's what is happening - as the cannele starts to bake it expands and pushes itself up and out of the mold, leaving a big airspace between the batter and the bottom of the mold. This means that the top tends to burn and the bottom never browns. I've tried slipping a knife down the side of the mold to release the pressure when it starts to rise, but within minutes of putting them back in the oven they spring out of the pan again. I actually "re-seated" them about five times before giving up and letting them bake. I'm getting really frustrated!

Does anyone else have this problem? If so, how do you handle it? I'm using copper molds (both chilled and room temperature) and I've tried various coatings including butter, non-stick spray and lecithin. I've also tried oven temperatures from 350 to 410

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I have the same problem. No matter how often I read and reread this thread, I just don't get the solution. Is it my recipe? (I use Hermé's). Is it something that I do wrong?

[chefcyn]

Beeswax.  Interesting topic and perhaps should be a new thread but, as I will use it only in conjunction with canneles, I'll leave it here...

I have a swarm of bees living on the side of my house.  They have built the most amazing honeycomb -- five feet in length and about 15" at the widest spot.  Is there any way I could put some of their wax (the honey is delicious) to use?  Anyone here know how beeswax gets to the state where it can be used to coat canneles molds?

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If you can get the combs away from the hive without being stung to death ;) it's relatively easy to process the wax to use--but you'll want the honey, too. That's a little more difficult. We used to borrow a centrifugal extractor from an apiarist (bee guy) to do our small hive. Our combs were on frames and very regular. You use a "hotknife" to skim the wax off the top of the cells, then the frames are placed in the extractor and spun around at high speed. All the honey flies out and drips down the sides of the barrel into a funnel into a bucket. You heat it and strain out the bee parts and bottle it. Then the wax is all empty of hiney and you just heat them to melt it, strain the liquid wax through a seive and let it harden in aluminum cake pans. Then it can be cut into blocks and wrapped to store.

With your big comb, you could heat the whole thing and the wax might separate from the honey, then cool it all and lift off the wax layer, melt and strain both parts and go from there.

OR, you could look in the yellow pages for an apiary in your area and ask them what to do with it. They may come out and remove your bees for you for a fee and thus save the walls of your house form damage. Where there are honey bees, there are often carpenter bees who drill holes in your house letting in all manner of bad things.

[chefcyn]

Please keep in mind that bee's wax is highly flammable. There are two safe ways to melt it:put  a few chunks of bee's wax along with a little tasteless in a pyrex type cup and heat in a microwave or in a double boiler. 

To keep, cover and store the mixture remaining in the cup in a drawer or cupboard.

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A little tasteless what?

[SethG]

Please keep in mind that bee's wax is highly flammable. There are two safe ways to melt it:put  a few chunks of bee's wax along with a little tasteless in a pyrex type cup and heat in a microwave or in a double boiler. 

To keep, cover and store the mixture remaining in the cup in a drawer or cupboard.

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A little tasteless what?

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Judging by Paula's book, she meant to say "a little tasteless [oil, such as safflower]."

Despite my purchase of canele molds many months ago, I still haven't given them a try.

[kitwilliams]

Thanks for your answer to my questions, chefcyn, however I am very sad to say that the bees and their hive are no more. They suddenly swarmed, one morning, and went directly next door and settled on our neighbor's tree. Since they have a small child and dogs, they IMMEDIATELY called a bee man (after first calling my father to ask if he would pay for the removal of the bees since they were HIS bees!!!!!!! -- unbelievable!) who didn't come and simply take them away, but sprayed murderous pesticides which, I'm sure, were more harmful to child and canine than our gentle bees who never hurt anyone in the two years they resided here.

When we took down all the comb, we found more embryonic bees than honey! But what little honey there was was unbelievably tasty.

Those same neighbors' wisteria was more beautiful than ever while the bees were here. I knew the wisteria would suffer with the loss of the bees. But I was mistaken as to the source of their suffering. It suffered from the neighbors, as they chopped it down, along with their coral tree.

Back on topic -- I'll never make any canneles for them!!

[Jay Francis]

I had created a cannele discussion here sometime back when I was getting really frustrated working with the recipe in Paula Wolfert's book. Following her procedure to the letter resulted in a burned cannele. I now use a much simpler recipe that I got doing a recipe search at the Food Network site. Is it authentic? I don't know. But it produces a flavorful dessert.

And, I found on close-out at Sur La Table, a silicone cannele mold. Which is how I got into trying to make cannele after reading about them at the www.chocolateandzucchini.com weblog.

Having that makes a big difference I think. My cannele always come out mis-shapen. They are very sweet, though, and have a chewy crunch and a custardy inside so I am pleased.

And an additional note. Although I did not have success with Paula's cannele recipe, I need to qualify that I am a big fan of hers. When I returned to the states in 1983, the hardback copy of her Morroccan book was one of my first purchases. I have, over the years, made pretty much every dish in this cookbook, with great success.

Edited February 7, 2005 by Jay Francis (log)

[kitwilliams]

I had created a cannele discussion here sometime back when I was getting really frustrated working with the recipe in Paula Wolfert's book. Following her procedure to the letter resulted in nasty burned cannele. I now use a much simpler recipe that I got doing a recipe search at the Food Network site.  Is it authentic?  I don't know.  But it produces a flavorful dessert. 

And, I found on close-out at Sur La Table, a silicone cannele mold.  Which is how I got into trying to make cannele after reading about them at the www.chocolateandzucchini.com weblog. 

Having that makes a big difference I think.  My cannele always come out mis-shapen.  They are very sweet, though, and have a chewy crunch and a custardy inside so I am pleased.

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Glad you've found a recipe that works (albeit misshapen) for you, Jay. But I just have to put in a plug that Paula Wolfert's recipe is still the one that works best for me. I use the Silicone Flex molds, purchased at Bridge Kitchenware. They seem to be one of the more substantial of the silicone molds and the results from them are very good.

[FoodMan]

This might seem like a dumb suggestion, but has anyone tried putting a top on the molds? Maybe like a baking sheet so that the canneles will stay put and not rise out of the molds. Should I even try this?

I use Wolfert's recipe as well with very good results and I have to "sit" them back down one or two times while baking. It would be nice not to have to do that.

Elie

[Wolfert]

Foodman:you don't have to worry about canneles rising in their molds . The canneles will settle down before they are fully baked and before you turn them out.

As for the writer who hasn't had luck with the recipe. I am truly sorry. I had an incredible chance to get the "real" Bordeaux version and had worked with a number of bakers in France and here in the States to perfect this recipe using our flour and copper molds. (I don't approve of the tin ones.) A number of chefs from the French SW working here in the States use this recipe because they claim it is closest to the "real thing."

BTW the cannele is supposed to be brown to black on the outside. Just as described in my book.

Can't find bee's wax? anyone who goes to a farmer's market and see's honey for sale can find a local supplier for bee's wax. Otherwise, check on the web. There are plenty of folks out there willing to sell clean bee's wax.

Edited February 8, 2005 by Wolfert (log)

[SethG]

I finally got around to making some canele batter this morning, using Paula's recipe. But I just noticed that she calls for yolks from extra large eggs. I reflexively (and mistakenly) used large eggs (almost universally called for in baking) without checking.

I imagine there's nothing I can do to fix the error now. Will my caneles be okay? There's a lot of variation in egg sizes, even within each classification, right? We're not talking about a big difference in weight, when it's just four yolks, right?

Or should I chuck it all and start over, throwing in another yolk?

Edit: And wait, Paula, what's wrong with the tin molds? Too thin? Elie's caneles, above, look pretty good, no?

Edited February 20, 2005 by SethG (log)

[Richard Kilgore]

I can't answer the most important of your questions, but...

I have noticed that over the years baking books have called for just about any size egg. I have a copy of Lenotre's Desserts and Pastries from the 1970's that calls for medium eggs. A handy conversion would be helpful if anyone knows the ratios.

[Wolfert]

Seth: don't worry about it. YOur canneles will be fine.

Tin molds don't produce the kind of blackened crunchy crust that I came to love when learning the fine points of the recipe.

A photo showing the super crunch that I like will be posted here in about ten minutes meanwhile iff tin produced crunchy canneles make you happy and put a smile on your face and satisfy your tummy. Stick with them.

Now about egg sizes: the old French way of setting culinary proportions in baking recipes was in "egg weights". This was determined by weighing an egg in shell, then weighing out the flour, sugar, and butter using the weight of the egg as a constant. If you visualize an old fashioned fulcrum type balance scale, the method makes more sense.

Edited February 20, 2005 by Wolfert (log)

[Wolfert]

This is the best I can do to zoom in the crunch that I personally love.

[Richard Kilgore]

....I could not wait more than one hour to taste those things and once I did I ate three of them and my wife had one. They were amazing, crunchy, chewy, bitter-sweet on the outside and soft custardy on the inside.... Here are a couple of pics I took (they look a little darker in the picture than they really are), you can see the canelle and the tin molds. .

Elie

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For comparison, here's a comment and a photo from Elie's post about making them with the tin molds.

[Wolfert]

Richard: thank you so much for forwarding that picture. I couldn't find it when I scrolled back earlier this morning.

Elie's canneles look wonderful. I certainly will recommend them from now on.

[SethG]

I know that photo from your book, Paula. And Richard posted the photo of Elie's to which I referred. It looks from the comparison that the tin molds produce a slightly thicker crust, but still nice and black and crunchy. Both look pretty good to me. I bought the tin molds months ago. I have bee's wax with which to coat them, and I'll post my results tomorrow or Tuesday.

[Wolfert]

Take pictures so we have more comparisons to study.

With euro climbing versus the dollar, the tin molds are obviously the way to go.. Also Kim Williams has had wonderful luck with Bridge's silicone molds.

The best time to eat canneles is 2 to 4 hours just out of the oven. Plan ahead.

Edited February 20, 2005 by Wolfert (log)

[SethG]

Okay, so I used the tin molds, seasoned with the "white oil" (melted beeswax mixed with safflower oil).

I couldn't believe that these things, each the size of a large shot glass, could be cooked for two hours at 400 degrees. It seemed to me that this would likely produce nothing but smoking, irradiating ruins. But I have nothing but faith in you, Paula, so I let them go almost the full two hours, even though the tops were a very dark brown already after about an hour and ten. I kept looking to make sure they weren't turning completely black, and they never did get darker than a very dark brown.

I needed a little help to unmold them. I used a fish fork, pictured below:

They looked a little raggedy, but basically correct. Then I forced myself to wait about 45 minutes before biting into one. To me it didn't taste crispy enough. My wife thought the dark outside tasted burnt, and that it overwhelmed the taste of the custard inside.

Here's a view of one cut open:

It looks a lot like yours, Paula, but I think the walls are too thick, causing the imbalance my wife described. (I also think the deep deep caramelization might be a bit much for both my wife and I.) I only made four last night, and I'm baking off another four as I write this. I'm going to try removing the molds one at a time, at fifteen minute intervals, and see what I think of each specimen. It seems to me like the tin molds ought to work, so long as the baking is done at the right temperature for the right length of time.

Now I'm really curious to try one at Payard, just to know what a proper cannele tastes like. I'll let you know how tonight's experiment goes.

[SethG]

Okay, so now I know: my canneles last night were overcooked. Tonight I made four of them, and I removed one from the oven after one hour and twenty minutes, one at 1:35, one at 1:40, and one at 1:47. The one from 1:20 was definitely undercooked, and the one at 1:47 verged on overcooked. The one from 1:35 was just about perfect. Almost as brown as the ones from last night, but with a thinner, crispier exterior. Nice and moist inside. I wanted to post a picture, but it came out blurry, and the cannele is long gone!

So maybe the tin molds require less cooking time than the tin-lined copper? Or maybe just in my oven.