Quitting appellations

[Dr Vino]

Which French wine producers have "quit" the AOC system and make at least one table wine? I can only think of Aime Guibert at Domain de Daumas Gassac in Languedoc but there are undoubtedly others (I think Michel Rolland has declassified some of his wines and have vague notions about Northern Rhone producers too). Are there any other appellation geeks out there who can help me come up with anything more specific?

Cheers,

Tyler

[Brad Ballinger]

Andre Brunel and Laurence Feraud made a rhone wine outside of any of the area's appellations called "Image du Sud." It is labeled as a vin de table. You can see an image of the label if you scroll down on this web page. I've only had the wine once, the 1998 vintage several years ago. All I remember is that it was a bit "backward" and needed some more time.

Now, I don't know if they've "quit" the AOC system since each continues to make other wines. But this is one effort.

Some garagiste producers in Bordeaux have had AOC designations stripped from their labels by the powers that be. So they didn't voluntarily "quit" but were forced in a direction. Jean-Luc Thunevin at Valandraud is one such example:

In 2000 the recalcitrant Thunevin was penalised by the INAO for covering 2 hectares of vineyard with plastic sheeting to protect it from the rain. The resulting 4,000 bottles of wine had to be declassified as "L'Interdit de Valandraud."

I think the same thing happened to Chateau Fontenil in that vintage (2000). Michel Rolland has a heavy hand in Fontenil. Both wines were declassified all the way down to vin de table.

[jbonne]

Andre Brunel and Laurence Feraud made a rhone wine outside of any of the area's appellations called "Image du Sud."  It is labeled as a vin de table.

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Feraud also makes a VDP table wine called Pelican, though of course she's still enjoying the benefits of producing Pegau under the CdP appellation. more here.

and three northern Rhoners -- Yves Cuilleron, Pierre Gaillard and François Villard -- have paired up on Vins de Vienne (more here) outside the AOC system. and of course, Jean Luc Columbo makes his Violette series as VDP, in addition to his AOC stuff.

not thinking of anyone who's gone all Super Tuscan on the AOC system, but i'll keep working on it ...

[Brad Ballinger]

and three northern Rhoners -- Yves Cuilleron, Pierre Gaillard and François Villard -- have paired up on Vins de Vienne (more here) outside the AOC system.  and of course, Jean Luc Columbo makes his Violette series as VDP, in addition to his AOC stuff.

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I'm sure Jon implied the following, even if it isn't stated: Cuilleron, Gaillard, and Villard all make plenty of AOC Condrieu wines, and excellent ones at that.

[jbonne]

I'm sure Jon implied the following, even if it isn't stated:  Cuilleron, Gaillard, and Villard all make plenty of AOC Condrieu wines, and excellent ones at that.

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indeed. my "Super Tuscan" comment was prolly a bit oblique, even for me.

keep thinking there must be folks in the Languedoc who have gone this route, a la Guibert. but the Languedoc AOC rules are on the fungible side. Cab Sauv and merlot being the two things that are probably the biggest holdups.

[carswell]

Some ... producers ... have had AOC designations stripped from their labels by the powers that be.  So they didn't voluntarily "quit" but were forced in a direction.

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In France (as opposed to, say, Italy), this seems to be the rule more than the exception. One example that springs to mind is Domaine de Trévallon. Under pressure from Bordeaux producers, the rules for the Coteaux d'Aix en Provence AOC were changed to allow only a small amount of cabernet sauvignon in the wines; Trévallon refused to comply and as a result its red, a 50-50 blend of syrah and cabernet, is now a vin de pays des Bouchées du Rhône. As I recall, something similar happened with Puzelat in the Loire: too much chardonnay in one of the blends (a Cherverny?). My memory is vague but it was marketed with a screed printed on the label and maybe a flippant name (like "Je m'en fiche").

edit: only one z in Puzelat...

Edited October 21, 2005 by carswell (log)

[Dr Vino]

Thanks for scratching your heads, Jon, Brad and Carswell--those are good names. I also remembered Ch. de St. Cosme in the Rhone (Gigondas) has a vdt--Little James Basket Press.

So it is interesting that as bad a rap as the AOCs get in the english-speaking world, there is so little defection from the producers (or perhaps political will to change either).

I'll have to try to find a bottle of the je m'en fiche!

[LOS]

Others I can think of:

Didier Dagueneau in Pouilly-Fume

Marc Angeli in Bonnezeaux

Jean Thevenet in the Macon

Domaine Pepiere in Muscadet

[carswell]

I'll have to try to find a bottle of the je m'en fiche!

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It's beginning to come back to me. The producer is Clos du Tue-Boeuf, which is owned by the two Puzelat brothers. Am still racking my brain for the wine's name.

Domaine Pepiere in Muscadet

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Olivier's wines are non-AOC? I could have sworn I'd seen Muscadet printed on his labels, which would mean they were AOC, wouldn't it?

Three more producers for the list:

- Zind-Humbrect's Zind, a still blend of auxerrois, pinot blanc and chardonnay, is a vin de table (vin de pays aren't allowed in Alsace) because chardonnay is authorized only for sparkling Crémant d'Alsace.

- In the Languedoc, Mas Julien's white is a VDP de l'Hérault because it contains unauthorized chenin blanc.

- In Corsica, Antoine Arena's wines are often non-AOC because he flouts AOC regulations (overly long fermentations, higher than allowed alcohol levels, etc.).

[Capaneus]

I'll have to try to find a bottle of the je m'en fiche!

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It's beginning to come back to me. The producer is Clos du Tue-Boeuf, which is owned by the two Puzelat brothers. Am still racking my brain for the wine's name.

Domaine Pepiere in Muscadet

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Olivier's wines are non-AOC? I could have sworn I'd seen Muscadet printed on his labels, which would mean they were AOC, wouldn't it?

Three more producers for the list:

- Zind-Humbrect's Zind, a still blend of auxerrois, pinot blanc and chardonnay, is a vin de table (vin de pays aren't allowed in Alsace) because chardonnay is authorized only for sparkling Crémant d'Alsace.

- In the Languedoc, Mas Julien's white is a VDP de l'Hérault because it contains unauthorized chenin blanc.

- In Corsica, Antoine Arena's wines are often non-AOC because he flouts AOC regulations (overly long fermentations, higher than allowed alcohol levels, etc.).

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I think muscadet/melon de Bourgogne can be used as a varietal label, it's not exclusively an AOC, is it? I always lose track of French regulations.

And isn't someone else in Alsace making a wine out of like seven or nine white varietals?

In general, I think in certain areas, like Burgundy, the Rhone and Bordeaux, the AOC designation gives you such a tremendous marketing advantage that it would be very hard to give up. Gestures like Thunevin's are in a sense facile, because they generate enough press in themselves to bridge that gap for the one vintage.

On the other hand, in areas where the AOC regulations are less well extablished, like Languedoc, or which are not well known, like Corsica, you find wholesale defection for the sake of freer access to viticultural techniques and winemaking technologies, and to sexy (read US-market-friendly) varietals.

At least that's how've I've thought of it for some time.

[jbonne]

i wasn't aware Pepiere had gone off the AOC reservation. otoh, Luneau-Papin does provide some extended lees contact to certain wines up to a year, well beyond the provisions of the AOC rules. my understanding from the Louis/Dressner folks is that Luneau-Papin can use the Muscadet appellation, but not the "sur lie." bit more here.

[LOS]

i wasn't aware Pepiere had gone off the AOC reservation.  otoh, Luneau-Papin does provide some extended lees contact to certain wines up to a year, well beyond the provisions of the AOC rules. my understanding from the Louis/Dressner folks is that Luneau-Papin can use the Muscadet appellation, but not the "sur lie."  bit more here.

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Actually, I was talking about his red Granit.

So he's stayed on the mainline with his bread-and-butter (his whites).

[Dr Vino]

I just came across this news item about Beaujolais producers enthusiastically embracing the vin de pays. It's hard to imagine them having a whole lot of success marketing wines as "gamay" but maybe that is the low to which "beaujolais" has fallen thanks to nouveau...

http://www.decanter.com/news/57289.html

The point about high levels of defection in AOCs in Languedoc presents a puzzle. Because the Languedoc has been a hotbed of AOC activity over the past two or three decades, you would think that there would be greater support and thus compliance. But perhaps the shift toward quality has opened up several paths and AOC defectors see another way as better if indeed it is an area where producers are doing their own thing (although the above comments make it seem like the Loire is more of an area of defection!).