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Chinese Black Vinegar


mudbug
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I'm so glad to find this topic. I just purchased a bottle of black vinegar but after reading these posts I'm not sure which application is best. Mine is labeled Kong Yen Black Vinegar, product of Taiwan. It smells a little bit like worchestershire sauce but tastes sweeter. The consistancy is like tamari (not thick at all). I've only used it on steamed savoy cabbage (really tasty).

Thoughts?

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:smile:

observation of most men's face when asked to try "wa mui"  :raz: hehe.

its kinda like the sucking in their faces look

that happens when you give a baby a slice of lemon to eat  :laugh:

anyway there are lots of chinese things that guys aren't meant to eat

like "dong gwai"

if i even have a little bit of that i can't breath properly!!  :shock:

um...don't agree with you, origamicrane.

I have seen many men asking for a bowl of the pig trotters in vinegar soup. It's just that they don't eat it all month long like the new mom. There is nothing in it that men cannot or should not eat; nothing there that will affect your virility! :laugh::laugh: Hubby often joined me when I ate the soup, and really enjoyed it.

And, young fella, women also pucker up when they eat wa mui, usually when they first put it into their mouths. My Caucasian hubby, nor my halfer sons pucker when they eat wa mui, but I do! It's one of Robin's favourite snacks. I think it all depends on one's tolerance for the sour taste.

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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We use black vinegar for something the S'porean just calls vegetarian beehoon. If we don't have it, we can't make the dish.

In the last couple of years we've enjoyed it with stir-fried cabbage. I learned this method while talking to a co-worker from NE (?maybe) China, her favorite way to eat cabbage was stir fried with chillies and oil, and then splashed with black vinegar. We've tried it, and now it's one of our favorites too. But sometimes when I'm not looking, the partner throws ginger in, I think he can't help it, it's his Hokkien roots, but I don't think it tastes as good as just fried chillies, oil, cabbage and black vinegar.

I have no comment on the chemistry of alkaline stuff in your gut, but I've learned not to question some traditions too closely and just go along with it. I drink my ching bo leung without complaining too much, always have ginger with my crab, and get used to being told I have too much wind or heat and should eat or drink X or Y. It can't hurt, right?

regards,

trillium

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Yeah, this is right. I've always thought of the one for pig's feet as black vinegar - it has spices and sugar in it, I believe - and the other one for dipping as brown vinegar. The brown vinegar is much thinner and it's what we use as a dipping sauce for hairy crabs.

Intriguing. will have to buy some live blue crab and some brown vinegar to try... any recommendations on brands for brown vinegar anyone?

actually saw an interesting use of black vinegar while i was doign a trainee day in a hotel kitchen. They were using it like blasamic reducing it down to a glaze and drizzling it on to some fish dishes it was quite nice much sweeter then a balsamic glaze.

Ah... good idea... will have to try this and trillium's cabbage dish... thanks for mentioning these.

anyway there are lots of chinese things that guys aren't meant to eat like "dong gwai"

if i even have a little bit of that i can't breath properly!!  :shock:

I also disagree. Not quite sure if you're joking or being serious. I may not know as many traditional customs as I "should" but I certainly have never seen any "man" turn down a good bowl of winter melon soup (assuming I interpreted your words correctly) I'll refer to it by it's botanica/Latin/scientific name of Benincasa hispida.). Medicinally it is used for many things, as are most plants.

Food is food. Sustenance is sustenance. If you're a human being, you need food to survive regardless of what gender you are. I'm pretty sure most people on the planet would agree that there is no food reserved specifically for males or females on a global scale. Some traditions are simply ridiculous, many still practiced today (not food related) are downright inhumane, and many were created in times where the logic and proof of science was not present.

Traditions may be fun for reminiscing and historical purposes and the stories should not be lost, but let's be realistic. Times have changed and many traditions shoud not be perpetuated as being absolutely necessary.

If you have breathing problems after eating doong gwa or other food, it is likely you have your own individual issues unrelated to being male or female. Perhaps you should start a new thread on the topic and post the recipe you use or in what format you're consuming it in... are you eating the diced interior of the melon freshly cut and cooked in soup? Are you eating dried forms of the rind? Candied versions? Are you eating the seeds? How much are you consuming?

Do you have issues with foods you eat where you haven't heard stories regarding that food?

Too much of anything can kill you or result in severe consequences - including water, the body requires balance.

(Water Intoxication: Hyponatremia

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=milit...=Google+Search)

Edited by mudbug (log)
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As a dip for crab, it is best to mix some black vinegar and sesame oil.  That's it.  Especially good for hairy crab.   Crab meat is very delicate.  Dipping it in black vinager with sesame oil can let you feel the true taste of the meat.   :smile:

No wonder black vinegar is optionally provided for sharks fin soup.

I thought the vinegar for sharks fin soup was the red kind. :blink: I know it wasn't black.

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Many Americans don't comprehend that black vinegar and soy sauce are two different things.

I hope they can distinguish the 2 different tastes. :raz:

Not always! Many Americans use soy sauce as an actual sauce -- meaning they pour it over whatever Chinese food they're eating (remember the scene in Joy Luck Club?). I've seen people do the same with black vinegar, in restaurants where both soy sauce and black vinegar are provided as condiments on the table (e.g., New Green Bo), and have no clue that they weren't using soy sauce.

Whenever I see that I want to whack those idiots on the side of the head and scream at them! (Sorry, that's one of my pet peeves. :biggrin: )

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Whenever I see that I want to whack those idiots on the side of the head and scream at them!  (Sorry, that's one of my pet peeves.  :biggrin: )

It's not worth it to get upset if someone is ignorant. Maybe I'd have to see this in action. Many people might know exactly what they're eating and simply prefer to eat it that way. Like me, I seek out the black vinegar in order to dip. I never pour soy sauce on anything at the table. If I have to do that, then as far as I'm concerned the dish wasn't seasoned properly to begin with. Why not lean over and ask innocently... "Excuse me... Is that soy sauce or black vinegar?" They might respond... "Black Vinegar! Great stuff!" Who knows, you might make a new friend.

:huh:

Edited by mudbug (log)
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Whenever I see that I want to whack those idiots on the side of the head and scream at them!  (Sorry, that's one of my pet peeves.  :biggrin: )

It's not worth it to get upset if someone is ignorant. Maybe I'd have to see this in action. Many people might know exactly what they're eating and simply prefer to eat it that way.

Possibly, but I know that many Americans think Chinese food must by definition be drowned in soy sauce. More than once I've seen people tell their friends they are SUPPOSED to do that.

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You are correct, sheetz. There are two kinds of jeet cho: pink or black. My students prefer the black for jiaozi, but for soup, they use the pink.

Remember, the black is different from the sweet black vinegar for new mom's soup!

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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I am not being serious about the wa mui :raz:

and I agree that food is food

but in chinese food we do have a lot of ingredients that are actually medicinal

"dong gwai" being one.

although i am not a doctor i do believe that traditional chinese medicine does have an effect and the basis of heating and cooling of the body, acupuncture, etc although can't be scientifically proved is followed by a vast majority of chinese and non-chinese even those that are western doctors.

In this respect there are foods and medicines that are suitable for men and women.

For example many food such as soya contain a form of oestrogen and this naturally will have different effects on the sexes.

Also chocolate produce endorphins in our brains and i believe it has been shown to have more effect on women then men.

So food isn't just the fuel we burn, the chemicals contained within will also have a physical and psychological effect.

naturally as everyone is different everyone will react differently to different chemicals but stuff like oestrogen will have a similar effect on all men and women.

So back on to topic tradtionally women eat black vinegar pig trotters as a way of rebuilding their strength after child birth, ever wondered why?

Or wondered why men don't eat this after they have had a some kind of operation or trauma?

I'm not saying men can't eat this stuff but there has to be a reason why women eat this particular dish for a whole month it might not be scientific but a lot of chinese mother subscribe to this belief.

"so tell me how do you bone a chicken?"

"tastes so good makes you want to slap your mamma!!"

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I also disagree. Not quite sure if you're joking or being serious. I may not know as many traditional customs as I "should" but I certainly have never seen any "man" turn down a good bowl of winter melon soup (assuming I interpreted your words correctly) I'll refer to it by it's botanica/Latin/scientific name of Benincasa hispida.). Medicinally it is used for many things, as are most plants.

When I first saw "Dong Gwai" posted by Origamicrane, I thought he was referring to winter melon (Benincasa hispida) too. But now I understand he was talking about "Dong Quai" (there are different spellings), or Angelica sinensis.

Here are some pictures from Google Image search. I have input the Chinese name:

(Google images of Dong Quai)

A Chinese herb that looks like Ginseng.

Edited by hzrt8w (log)
W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
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Hey, watch it! This is a family type board :raz: .

Yeah... first we have Boba, now we have uterus... This board is going R-rated very soon. :wink:

Edited by hzrt8w (log)
W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
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When I first saw "Dong Gwai" posted by Origamicrane, I thought he was referring to winter melon (Benincasa hispida) too.  But now I understand he was talking about "Dong Quai" (there are different spellings), or Angelica sinensis.

Thank you for the clarification. That helps explain things... when in doubt, always go to the scientific name which is universal around the world. While many of it's medicinal properties are geared towards symptoms females have, it still has properties well suited for males as well.

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This is the info' from google search:

Dong quai has been used for over a thousand years as a spice, tonic, and medicine in China, Korea and Japan. Although there have been few definitive studies on dong quai, it is reputed to relieve constipation, increase red blood cell count (which helps treat anemia), and to provide relief from menstrual disorders such as cramps, irregular menstrual cycles, infrequent periods, premenstrual syndrome (PMS), and menopausal symptoms. In Traditional Chinese Medicine, it is used for a variety of purposes, including reproductive, circulatory, and respiratory conditions.

From: Maryland Medical Center Programs, Complementary Medicine Program

Edited by Dejah (log)

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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The vinegar is for shrinking the uterous after birth.

I don't think it will shrink anything else if you don't have a uterous! :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

:laugh: thats why I said it was for girls only hahahaha!!

"so tell me how do you bone a chicken?"

"tastes so good makes you want to slap your mamma!!"

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May be of interest:

Trotters are supposed to provide collagen, especially good for strengthening limbs, joints and ligaments which have loosen during pregnancy.

Angelica sinensis

Common Names: dong quai, dang gui, tang-kuei

Not just for "women"

http://www.rain-tree.com/dongquai.htm

Exploring Chinese Women's Cultural Beliefs...

http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleA...U60DL1&ID=54637

Black Vinegar Trotter

http://www.thestar.com.my/kuali/recipes/mum.html#black

Pork Nuckles and Ginger Stew

It looks like quite a large site with quite a few recipes all based on pat chun sauces.

So just ignore the branding (if you can) & look at the recipes. Photos included.

Click on "New Babies" at the top.

http://www.hsiaonline.com/patchun/index.htm

You don't have to be a new mother or even pregnant to enjoy this dish

http://food.asia1.com.sg/recipes/mea_20050313_001.shtml

Confinement Recipes: ("confinement" - that sounds fun)

http://www.momsinmind.com.sg/confinementrecipes.html

The Other Side:

http://merenwen13.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_...13_archive.html

In traditional Cantonese families, the stock of vinegar cooked in black sugar is prepared a month before the baby is due.

It is then boiled daily for a fuller flavour.

Once the mother goes into confinement, the trotters are placed in the stock, cooked for about 45 minutes and served the next day. The new Mum takes a bowl of it daily.

Traditionally, the confinement period is a time of rest for the new mother. During these 30 days, she is fed 'heaty' food like pig trotters cooked in black vinegar and ginger to replenish her strength.

It is believed that the old ginger used in the dish drives out 'wind' from the body while the black vinegar purifies the blood.

Pig trotters are said to provide collagen and help strengthen joints.

The Chinese believe that if the 'wind' is not purged after pregnancy, it can cause rheumatism, headaches and backaches in later years.

http://food.asia1.com.sg/recipes/mea_20050313_001.shtml

Edited by mudbug (log)
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I think I have mixed up on my terminologies.

Jeet Cho (The Chinese dark vinegar)... I first thought it was the "black vinegar" that mudbug asked about. Then during the conversation, the term "red vinegar" and "brown vinegar" came up. I got a little confused. I went to look up the label on the bottle of vinegar that I used for cooking (for hairy crab as a dip). It does say Jeet Cho in Chinese. As for the English translation, it only said "vinegar". Oh, go figure.

The other bottle of sweet, thick, dark vinegar used for cooking pig trotters: the label said "sweet black vinegar". Chinese is Teem Cho [Cantonese] (meaning sweet vinegar).

So... black vinegar for making pig trotters, red/brown vinegar for a dip and for cooking (certain dishes such as General's Chicken), and white vinegar for cooking sweet and sour dishes and "po choy" (the pickled vegetables used as appertizers).

W.K. Leung ("Ah Leung") aka "hzrt8w"
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I went to look up the label on the bottle of vinegar that I used for cooking (for hairy crab as a dip).  It does say Jeet Cho in Chinese.  As for the English translation, it only said "vinegar".  Oh, go figure.

The other bottle of sweet, thick, dark vinegar used for cooking pig trotters:  the label said "sweet black vinegar".  Chinese is Teem Cho [Cantonese] (meaning sweet vinegar).

hzrt8w,

Thank you. Could someone please post links to corresponding pics with the proper Chinese characters?

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:smile: here's a bit of a conincidence.

A family friend is going to give birth in september and the husband has asked my mum to teach them how to make Pig trotters with ginger and vinegar.

Well even though I don't drink the stuff as a cookie I am interested in how to make this.

So I'm going to compile my mum's recipe and take photos of the process I will post it once its all done.

So far my mum washed and peeled a load of ginger.

What I didn't know is that you should keep the peeled ginger skin, dry it and give it to the mother-to-be to wash/shower with to "ko fung".

"so tell me how do you bone a chicken?"

"tastes so good makes you want to slap your mamma!!"

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Many Americans don't comprehend that black vinegar and soy sauce are two different things.

I hope they can distinguish the 2 different tastes. :raz:

Not always! Many Americans use soy sauce as an actual sauce -- meaning they pour it over whatever Chinese food they're eating (remember the scene in Joy Luck Club?). I've seen people do the same with black vinegar, in restaurants where both soy sauce and black vinegar are provided as condiments on the table (e.g., New Green Bo), and have no clue that they weren't using soy sauce.

China 46 I believe actually supplies a 50/50 blend of Soy and Changkiang Vinegar for use as a dipping sauce for Xiao Long Bao dumplings. Its not 100 percent vinegar.

At home, when we make steamed dumplings, 50/50 Soy and black vinegar along with some chopped scallion is what we use.

Jason Perlow

Co-Founder, The Society for Culinary Arts & Letters

offthebroiler.com - Food Blog | View my food photos on Instagram

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I don't know much about vinegar but I think balsamic vinegar is a good substitution for Chiangkang vinegar.
No way.  They're completely different.

Completely agree with trillium on that one.

That would be like saying "worcestershire sauce" is a good substitution for "balsamic vinegar". It wouldn't be, they're too different.

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