Quercus Fragmentus

[chefzadi]

The grapes don't but the oak chips do.

Oak chips? Maybe I haven't drunk enough cheap wine.

EDIT: Cheap American wine that is.

Edited March 18, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[mikeycook]

The grapes don't but the oak chips do.

Oak chips? Maybe I haven't drunk enough cheap wine.

EDIT: Cheap American wine that is.

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Cute, but wasn't it Chateau Figeac that was accused of using oak chips?

[mikeycook]

Until the last several years, it seemed that, on average, the French used less new oak in their wines than Americans, but I know that has changed in some areas, such as burgundy, where the percentage of new oak has been increased in recent years. As such, I am not sure if there is as much difference between French and American plonk as there used to be.

[carswell]

Oak chips?    Maybe I haven't drunk enough cheap wine.

EDIT: Cheap American wine that is. 

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Soon to appear in a French wine near you! (Allowing oak chips in low-end wines is one of the changes being proposed by INAO.)

Though I can't prove it, I've long thought that French cheap wine tastes better than American cheap wine, perhaps because it's less heavily processed and less systematically denuded of personality, however rustic that personality might be.

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I agree. And I think one of the reasons is that so many French wines are blends, whereas American wines are usually varietals. And as soon as that variety name goes on the label, the winemaker is limited in the amount of blending he can do. Of course, another of INAO's proposed changes will allow more varietal bottlings in France, so the days of cheap French wine's superiority may be numbered. If so, the irony will be complete: what's meant to save French wine will have destroyed French wine.

[eje]

Cute, but wasn't it Chateau Figeac that was accused of using oak chips?

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Not sure about that; but, I believe it is a pretty common practise, especially among volume wine makers whose wines never see the inside of an oak barrel.

Doing a quick google for "wine oak chips", I find the rules for French mid-market (vin de pays) wines were changed in 2004 to allow the use of oak chips, wider geographical sourcing of grapes, and smaller amounts of named varietals in their wines.

[mikeycook]

Cute, but wasn't it Chateau Figeac that was accused of using oak chips?

←

Not sure about that; but, I believe it is a pretty common practise, especially among volume wine makers whose wines never see the inside of an oak barrel.

Doing a quick google for "wine oak chips", I find the rules for French mid-market (vin de pays) wines were changed in 2004 to allow the use of oak chips, wider geographical sourcing of grapes, and smaller amounts of named varietals in their wines.

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I think I owe the folks at Figeac an apology. It was actually Giscours that was accused of using wood chips.

[carswell]

Cute, but wasn't it Chateau Figeac that was accused of using oak chips?

←

Not sure about that; but, I believe it is a pretty common practise, especially among volume wine makers whose wines never see the inside of an oak barrel.

Doing a quick google for "wine oak chips", I find the rules for French mid-market (vin de pays) wines were changed in 2004 to allow the use of oak chips, wider geographical sourcing of grapes, and smaller amounts of named varietals in their wines.

←

While I've not been following every development in this story, I recall reading about a catch that's still preventing French winemakers from using wine chips. I think it was that although oak chips have been authorized for non-AOC wines, what constitutes an oak chip has yet to be defined. If so, not only would their use not be common practice, it would be illegal. In any case, they are definitely not authorized for AOC wines like Figeac.

[mikeycook]

Cute, but wasn't it Chateau Figeac that was accused of using oak chips?

←

Not sure about that; but, I believe it is a pretty common practise, especially among volume wine makers whose wines never see the inside of an oak barrel.

Doing a quick google for "wine oak chips", I find the rules for French mid-market (vin de pays) wines were changed in 2004 to allow the use of oak chips, wider geographical sourcing of grapes, and smaller amounts of named varietals in their wines.

←

While I've not been following every development in this story, I recall reading about a catch that's still preventing French winemakers from using wine chips. I think it was that although oak chips have been authorized for non-AOC wines, what constitutes an oak chip has yet to be defined. If so, not only would their use not be common practice, it would be illegal. In any case, they are definitely not authorized for AOC wines like Figeac.

←

Sorry to keep correcting myself. It's Giscours, not Figeac. But the same applies (a third-growth, no less).

Edited March 18, 2005 by mikeycook (log)

[Rebel Rose]

The issue of oak chips, dust, flour, planks, inserts, etc. intrigues me.

Mel Knox addressed this briefly during his wine forum appearance. He's the one who calls it 'quercus fragmentus.'

Here's an article by wine writer Gerald Boyd in Vineyard & Winery Management on the subject.

On the more traditional side of the oak-use issue are those heavily financed small production vintners that believe the best coopered French or American oak barrel is the only way to go, while other more economically minded folks, wishing to maintain the oak advantage, are switching to what is variously called oak alternatives, oak replacements or oak options.

Hmm. Our winery is not a "heavily financed small production vintner." I often say that we're a microwinery with a microbudget, and yet Dan and I both adhere faithfully to traditional practices in oak, as do other small producers with more talent than funds.

[eje]

While I've not been following every development in this story, I recall reading about a catch that's still preventing French winemakers from using wine chips. I think it was that although oak chips have been authorized for non-AOC wines, what constitutes an oak chip has yet to be defined. If so, not only would their use not be common practice, it would be illegal. In any case, they are definitely not authorized for AOC wines like Figeac.

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I can't find much recent information; but, from the articles I could find, I think you are right and it appears French winemakers and gov't are still considering whether they will allow oak chips and how they will regulate it. Most of the information I could find was from last fall, though. Anyone else have late breaking information? From what I read, it would also take EU approval for them to be allowed to add them.

In any case, yes, at this point, it would only be allowed in Vin de Pays or Vin de Table, not AOC wines.

Erik

Edited March 18, 2005 by eje (log)