Rancid Epoisses at Hamel

[VivreManger]

On Friday, 19 March, I went to Hamel in the Jean Talon Market and spotted an Epoisses by someone other than the dominant Berthaut brand: Roc de la Cote, Jean Gaugry, 21220 Brochon, imported by J. L. Freeman Inc. I had seen a Berthaut Epoisses in the Mount Royal branch of Hamel and I was pleased to try a different cheesemaker.

I brought it back to the apt. where I was staying and immediately put it in the fridge. Yesterday, Sunday, I got back to the States and unpacked my purchases. During the car trip, the cheese had been stored in a freezer chest with an ice pack and as all driving around yesterday can testify, anywhere between Montreal and Boston, the temperature outside was colder than a normal fridge.

When I looked closely at the cheese, I noticed that it had been packed by Hamel on 19 March. The Hamel sticky label was stuck over the original importer's label which contained the dates of manufacture and "best by". I carefully removed the Hamel label and discovered that not only had it obscured the original information, but the stickiness had transferred the text onto the back of the new label so that it only could be read mirror image. The original labelling had lost its ink at that crucial point. Decoding the label revealed that the cheese was best before 12 March and made on 22 December 2003.

It was too late to try the cheese right then and so I waited till this morning thinking that a week or so should not make a huge difference. I was annoyed that the overly late date of sale meant I would have to eat the cheese more quickly than I had intended. But I expected that it would be edible.

I just opened it. The cheese had gotten so slimy that it was stuck to the wooden container and took many solid thumps before it dropped onto the waiting plate, I Unpacked it revealed a slimy brown mess with white mold happily developing.

The rind was inedible and the cheese within was ammoniac almost to the point of revulsion. I like my game high and my cheese strong, but this was past the point of consumption.

Now I have to figure out how to get back my $16.30 Canadian plus tax from Hamel. Living in the States means it will not be returned to the purveyor.

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

Does anyone know an individual at Hamel to whom I should address my complaint?

I should add that I was much happier with the service and prices across the way at Le Marche des Saveurs du Quebec. But by definition, they would not carry Epoisses.

[docsconz]

A very disturbing story indeed. My experience with Hamel in the past has always been positive. I'll have to be cautious in the future, but then again, I've most recently been buying cheese from Chaput when in Montreal. I also tend to concentrate on Quebec cheeses that I can't generally find in the States.

[SteveW]

From my memory, Hamel has a website, but can't remember their URL.

-Steve

[carswell]

Sorry to hear your sad tale, VM. While not questioning its veracity, I think it's important to mention that in the 20-odd years I've been frequenting the Jean-Talon store, I've never had a similar experience. On the contrary, they have occasionally refused to sell me a specific cheese because it was too young or too old. My guess is not that they were trying to pass off bad cheese but just that someone screwed up, always a possibility with an operation that size and new staff constantly coming on stream.

As for reparations, why don't you give them a call (514 272-1161)? And, if you have a digicam, get their e-mail address, take pics of the offending fromage and squirt them off to them asap. Alternatively, if you're willing to risk an outraged reaction, you could fax them a copy of this thread (514 272-1163).

Frankly, these days I tend to go to smaller cheese shops — La Baia for Italian and Yannick Fromagerie (the former Chaput store on Bernard) and Gourmet Laurier for most everything else. I find the quality to be even higher than at the big-volume stores and the service more obliging (though a Yannick clerk a couple a months ago was a total ditz; haven't seen her since). Hamel I save for satisfying my Maroilles à la Maudite jones and their artisanal crème fraîche, the best I've found in the city.

Edited March 22, 2004 by carswell (log)

[carswell]

From my memory, Hamel has a website, but can't remember their URL.

-Steve

www.fromageriehamel.com

[Bux]

In my opinion, there's no justification for repacking a cheese for sale one week after the producer's own "best by" date. Nevertheless, I can't recall having an Epoisses that was removed from it's container. As I recall, the rind is always hard, stuck to the wooden container and generally strong and unpleasant tasting. If I eat a bit it's just because I'm too greedy to let a bit of the almost liquid interior get past my spoon. To my taste, cheeses such as Epoisses and Vacherin Mont d'Or are best served with a spoon after cutting a hole in the top of the rind.

On the other hand, it should be a rather deep yellow almost bordering on orange. (I'm relying on memory and may be overstating the difference between Epoisses and the paler Vacherin Mont d'Or) "Brown," would not be a good sign. A distinct amonia aroma or taste is the sign of a cheese well past its prime. "Best by" dates are always an estimation and one wonders if the producer took into account the fact that the cheese was destined for export. The further a cheese travels and the more hands involved along the way, the shorter it's life span in my opinion. Under these conditions, one week could well be a long time. That however, should not be your problem and all the more reason the seller should not have covered the original dates, nor sold the cheese without some warning and perhaps at a discounted price.

[Fat Guy]

Today is March 22. If the best-by date on the cheese was March 12, it's hard to imagine it wouldn't still be quite edible today under normal circumstances. I'd have to know more about the manufacturing process, but presumably this is one that is stored at a very low temperature in order to get around the 60 day rule for unpasteurized cheeses. Such cheeses are usually, in my experience, too young to enjoy on their best-by dates and require additional affinage at home after purchase. It sounds like something went wrong with this cheese beyond a simple re-labeling.

[slkinsey]

Bux, are you sure you're not confusing Epoisses with some other cheese. I've had plenty of Epoisses, and I don't think I would ever have described the rind as "hard" or particularly inedible -- even in the riper examples. Usually looks something like this. Vacherin Mont d'Or, on the other hand, sounds more to me like what you're talking about.

[Lesley C]

I have a call in to Hamel's affineur, Yan Picard. Will get back to you soon.

[docsconz]

Today is March 22. If the best-by date on the cheese was March 12, it's hard to imagine it wouldn't still be quite edible today under normal circumstances. I'd have to know more about the manufacturing process, but presumably this is one that is stored at a very low temperature in order to get around the 60 day rule for unpasteurized cheeses. Such cheeses are usually, in my experience, too young to enjoy on their best-by dates and require additional affinage at home after purchase. It sounds like something went wrong with this cheese beyond a simple re-labeling.

Does the 60 day rule for unpasteurized cheese apply to Quebec specifically or Canada in general?

[carswell]

Have to agree with slkinsey on this. Whenever I've been served Époisses, it has been removed from its box. Also, Époisses is one of those cheeses that ripens from the outside in, and the riper it gets, the runnier it is, i.e. the very opposite of hard.

VM, you don't specify whether your Époisses was made from raw milk. Ammonia is a sign that the cheese has gone to meet its maker; if I recall correctly, it is produced by the decomposition of the mould cells that cause the cheese to ripen. Those cells can be killed by mishandling or simply die of natural causes. In my experience, pasteurized Époisses seems particularly fragile, rarely ripening into refulgence, often developing off-odours. This is one case where it pays to go out of your way to get the raw-milk farmhouse (not artisanal) product.

Also, if your cheese was made from pasteurized milk, the 60-day rule wouldn't apply.

Edited March 22, 2004 by carswell (log)

[slkinsey]

It's not really an Époisses if it's not raw milk, though, is it?

[carswell]

Does the 60 day rule for unpasteurized cheese apply to Quebec specifically or Canada in general?

Canada. It's Health Canada's rule. The feds are responsible for controlling all imported goods, including food.

[carswell]

It's not really an Époisses if it's not raw milk, though, is it?

Taking you literally: I don't have a copy of the AOC regulations but you can easily find lots of French pasteurized-milk Époisses for sale in North America and Europe. Also, the Encylopédie des fromages doesn't list raw milk as a requirement, just whole milk.

Taking you rhetorically: No.

Edited March 22, 2004 by carswell (log)

[VivreManger]

Lesley, thanks for looking into this.

This Epoisses claims to be made from unpasturized milk.

If anybody is around Hamel in Marche Jean Talon they can check to see if any more of this brand is around. There were quite a few on Friday.

[Lesley C]

I just got off the phone with Ian Picard. He's looking into it and will get back to me with his comments soon. So, stay tuned.

BTW, that cheese is raw milk.

[badthings]

It's not really an Époisses if it's not raw milk, though, is it?

Taking you literally: I don't have a copy of the AOC regulations but you can easily find lots of French pasturized-milk Époisses for sale in North America and Europe. Also, the Encylopédie des fromages doesn't list raw milk as a requirement, just whole milk.

2 of the 4 AOC époisses producers use raw milk, according to the Syndicat de défense de l'époisses. Berthaut époisses is "thermalized," not pasteurized. Further stories of bad époisses here.

Edited March 22, 2004 by badthings (log)

[Lesley C]

Unfortunately, in Quebec, thermalized = raw milk. But of course, WE know better.

[badthings]

Lesley, are you suggesting that the cheese sold in Quebec as thermalized is not heated to 145 F or so? Or rather that the cheese sold as lait cru is actually thermalized?

Listeria: les producteurs de fromage au lait cru inquiets pour leur avenir

Pascale MOLLARD-CHENEBENOIT

Agence France Presse

March 1, 2000

La societe Berthaut, principal fabricant d'Epoisses, ne s'est pas encore remise de cet episode qui concernait un concurrent mais qui a provoque l'effondrement des ventes de toute l'appellation. "C'est tres dur. On a beaucoup souffert", confie Philippe Blanc, dirigeant de cette societe.

Depuis six mois, Berthaut a decide de renoncer au lait cru pour son Epoisses et d'opter pour le lait thermise (chauffe entre 40 et 72 degres). "On elimine ainsi une partie du risque mais meme dans un fromage pasteurise, il peut y avoir des problemes de Listeria", affirme-t-il en ajoutant que son "souhait le plus cher serait de revenir un jour au lait cru".

[sorry about the accents, I pulled it off of lexis-nexis]

[docsconz]

Cool site, Badthings.

[docsconz]

Lesley, are you suggesting that the cheese sold in Quebec as thermalized is not heated to 145 F or so? Or rather that the cheese sold as lait cru is actually thermalized?

Listeria: les producteurs de fromage au lait cru inquiets pour leur avenir

Pascale MOLLARD-CHENEBENOIT

Agence France Presse

March 1, 2000

La societe Berthaut, principal fabricant d'Epoisses, ne s'est pas encore remise de cet episode qui concernait un concurrent mais qui a provoque l'effondrement des ventes de toute l'appellation. "C'est tres dur. On a beaucoup souffert", confie Philippe Blanc, dirigeant de cette societe.

Depuis six mois, Berthaut a decide de renoncer au lait cru pour son Epoisses et d'opter pour le lait thermise (chauffe entre 40 et 72 degres). "On elimine ainsi une partie du risque mais meme dans un fromage pasteurise, il peut y avoir des problemes de Listeria", affirme-t-il en ajoutant que son "souhait le plus cher serait de revenir un jour au lait cru".

[sorry about the accents, I pulled it off of lexis-nexis]

While I believe I have the gyst of it, anyone care to tranlate for us French-language challenged?

[Lesley C]

No, what I'm saying is that, in Quebec, cheese made with thermalized milk is allowed to be labeled "raw milk," which if you talk to a purist like Luc Mailloux, is a total travesty because many good bacteria are killed off when milk is heated above the body temperature of a cow.

[carswell]

Lesley, are you suggesting that the cheese sold in Quebec as thermalized is not heated to 145 F or so? Or rather that the cheese sold as lait cru is actually thermalized?

Listeria: les producteurs de fromage au lait cru inquiets pour leur avenir

Pascale MOLLARD-CHENEBENOIT

Agence France Presse

March 1, 2000

La societe Berthaut, principal fabricant d'Epoisses, ne s'est pas encore remise de cet episode qui concernait un concurrent mais qui a provoque l'effondrement des ventes de toute l'appellation. "C'est tres dur. On a beaucoup souffert", confie Philippe Blanc, dirigeant de cette societe.

Depuis six mois, Berthaut a decide de renoncer au lait cru pour son Epoisses et d'opter pour le lait thermise (chauffe entre 40 et 72 degres). "On elimine ainsi une partie du risque mais meme dans un fromage pasteurise, il peut y avoir des problemes de Listeria", affirme-t-il en ajoutant que son "souhait le plus cher serait de revenir un jour au lait cru".

[sorry about the accents, I pulled it off of lexis-nexis]

While I believe I have the gyst of it, anyone care to tranlate for us French-language challenged?

Here's a quick-and-dirty translation:

Listeria: Raw-Milk Cheese Makers Worried About Their Future

by Pascale MOLLARD-CHENEBENOIT

Agence France Presse

March 1, 2000

The Berthaut firm, the main maker of Époisses, has not yet recovered from the incident that involved a competitor but caused the entire appellation's sales to collapse. "It's hard," said the company’s head Philippe Blanc. "We've really suffered."

Six months ago, Berthaut decided to stop using raw milk for its Époisses and to begin using thermalized milk (heated to between 40ºC to 72ºC). "Doing so eliminates some of the risk, though Listeria problems can occur even in pasteurized cheeses," he said, adding that his "greatest hope is someday to go back to using raw milk."

Edit: added headline

Edited March 22, 2004 by carswell (log)

[Fat Guy]

The regulations in the US and Canada are essentially the same. You can use the "lait cru" designation if your cheese falls short of the definition of pasteurized by one degree or one minute. Most "lait cru" cheeses have been heated to some extent, and many are virtually if not technically pasteurized.

[VivreManger]

In point of fact, the epoisses I bought was NOT labeled "lait cru", but rather simply not-pasturized. When I bought a Bethaut epoisses, it was agnostic on the subject. No reference appeared, as I recall, to cru or non-pasturized. So both seem to be trying to reflect the nether-world of thermalized as opposed to either pasturized or raw.