The Herbfarm

[Joe H]

Wilson, you question Irwin for his "ability" to spend $20 more for truffles (remarkably, without knowing who this man is) but do you know the difference between an Oregon white truffle and a white Alba truffle? Do you have any idea of the difference in cost? In taste? In aroma? I assume you realize that the difference in cost is that the Oregon truffle is five cents on the dollar to the cost of the Alba truffle? Further, have you ever been to the old Guido outside of Alba in October? Of course it has moved but for years, in October and part of November, this was a destination worthy of a trip from the U. S. which many of us did.

No, the Herb Farm which I went to before the fire did not compare to this. Nor to a great many other restaurants that I have been to. Of course I haven't had the "full Cleveland, er Chicago" at Trotter's that you refer to.

Merely the kitchen table.

By the way, Irwin owned the kitchen.

[Wilson]

I have to ask what you ate at those other places. I took two people to Trotter's last spring. We did the Full Cleveland (er, the Full Chicago), with a half-bottle of Champagne to start; the wine accompaniment for each of us; the cheese course for each of us; the dessert course for each of us; coffee and after-dinner wine. With tax and tip it came to $950.

I don't drink. That makes my costs much lower than many peoples. I ate the grand menu at CT's, the Chef's tasting menu at TFL, and I don't think there was a choice at I@LW. All were at least $40 cheaper per diner than Herbfarm.

But the money issue is more a straw that breaks the back than a determining factor. I've covered these before (and also in the Chowhound post -- I'm Nick -- that you might have read in the discussion there): course timing, meal length, expense, presentation, distance, and service charge. To me, it has a lot of barriers.

It's nice (for you) that expense isn't an issue, but I think for most people it is. And paying 33% more at Herbfarm than Trotter's or French Laundry is significant. People value restaurants that serve essentially equal food when they have $15 entrees instead of $25 entrees. $175 versus $125 meals is going to have an effect on most of us.

Further, the relative expense of Herbfarm is significant for the area. The bay area, and especially Chicago, have expensive food. Herbfarm may not seem like a big deal if you're from Chicago or New York, but it's significantly more expensive for someone from Portland, like myself.

I don't drink.  That makes my costs much lower than many peoples.  I ate the grand menu at CT's, the Chef's tasting menu at TFL, and I don't think there was a choice at I@LW.  All were at least $40 cheaper per diner than Herbfarm.

I haven't been to the French Laundry so I can't comment on the prices there. But we spent $315 apiece at Trotter's, which is a whole lot more than we're going to spend at Herb Farm if we go. Even if we hadn't had anything to drink at Trotter's it would have cost moer than HF, because Trotter charges extra for a chesse course and for a dessert course.

It's nice (for you) that expense isn't an issue, but I think for most people it is. And paying 33% more at Herbfarm than Trotter's or French Laundry is significant. People value restaurants that serve essentially equal food when they have $15 entrees instead of $25 entrees. $175 versus $125 meals is going to have an effect on most of us.

If I go to Mistral or Lucas Carton or a handful of other places of that caliber, I don't want the chef to cut any corners. If you're thinking about price-to-value relationships, none of these super-luxe food temples are ever going to be a good deal.

Further, the relative expense of Herbfarm is significant for the area.  The bay area, and especially Chicago, have expensive food. Herbfarm may not seem like a big deal if you're from Chicago or New York, but it's significantly more expensive for someone from Portland, like myself

You're absolutely right, which is why you have to drive to Seattle, a significantly larger and more affluent city, to find a Mistral or (apparently) an Herbfarm. If Seattle's economy weakens to the point where "value" drives even the top end, we'll get better value but we'll lose something in the process. And at that point, I'll have to travel to Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, New York, Paris or Tuscany for the best cuisine.

[Wilson]

Wilson, you question Irwin for his "ability" to spend $20 more for truffles

I'm not questioning his ability. Hell, I don't know his financial situation. Don't want to. My point was that, when a meal costs what it does at a place like the Herbfarm, you've slip'd the surly bonds of earth and touched the face of God with respect to any kind of budget. I don't believe in throwing money down the toilet -- I shopped around for 3-cent long-distance calls to replace my 7-cent Qworst service -- but when you've decided to go to an ultra-luze foodie temple, I think complaining about whether the bill is $159 a person or $189 a person is really trivial.

do you know the difference between an Oregon white truffle and a white Alba truffle?  Do you have any idea of the difference in cost?  In taste?  In aroma?

No, I really don't know. But I'd be interested in knowing. As an old song goes,

Every man is no more than a river

Travelin' every coming mile with a lesson to learn

I went to the Italian place in Pike Place Market a while back and got some white truffle olive oil and cooked the veal marsala in it. My God, by the time I was done cooking it I swear I never wanted to smell or taste a white truffle ever again. Remind me to upgrade my range fan.

Further, have you ever been to the old Guido outside of Alba in October?  Of course it has moved but for years, in October and part of November, this was a destination worthy of a trip from the U. S. which many of us did.

No, but I'd love to read about it.

[ExtraMSG]

There's a reason most, even the top, restaurants in the US hover around $125 for their menus: the market. Compared to the luxurious feasts of the 18th century aristocracies, these meals are simple. They had dishes that took days and days to prepare, where you'd use a dozen birds to make a sauce for one dish. Stuff like that. Imagine the expense.

Price is always limited by the market. Dinners could be more luxurious, more expensive, more, more, more at any restaurant in the world. They aren't because they need more than a couple people to eat there. Would you be chastising me for not being willing to spend $10k dollars on the truly ultimate meal?

Nearly everyone has an upper limit or a point where they say that the food just isn't worth the money any more. It's relative and contextual, of course, but not unreasonable.

[wesza]

Since i've been to the Herb Farm several times, the only thing i'd say is i'd feel sorry for anyone who made a reservation months ago that wasn't fond of truffeles.

Personally I was impressed with the way that the White Truffles were utilized as it wasn't the most effective way of applying their nuances.

Were the Truffles American or imported from Europe. Did they charge a Premium for this Special Menu ?

Since you made it a overnight special occasion did you consider that it would have been about the same cost if you'd decided to spend the night in Napa and have dinner at the French Laundry or any Bay Area, Las Vegas or Vancover, LA Restaurant including the air fare.

Glad you enjoyed the experience and hope it made your special occassion extra special.

Irwin

Since you made it a overnight special occasion did you consider that it would have been about the same cost if you'd decided to spend the night in Napa and have dinner at the French Laundry or any Bay Area, Las Vegas or Vancover, LA Restaurant including the air fare.

I don't see how you can say that. Based on the prices I saw on HF's website + the charge for a room at the Inn, it seems that, if anything, they are somewhjat cheaper than the French Laundry and an equivalent-level accommodation. Air fares from Seattle to California, plus the rental car charges you'd need to pay, would make flying there far more expensive than going out to the Herbfarm for dinner and staying overnight.

Also, when I checked HF's website they list the theme dinners so I have to assume that F-G knew she'd be doing a truffle thing when she reserved. I hope so, anyway. I don't particular go for "themes" myself so I think I'd be irked if I stumbled into a theme dinner by mistake. As for extra charges, HF's website implies that they tack on another $20 pp for the theme dinners.

I must say that if an extra $20 is a problem then HF or equivalent places are probably not for you to begin with. I eat in a wide variety of places expensive to cheap, but the one thing I've always tried not to do is sit down for a meal in a place where I had to worry about the prices.

Wilson:

Italian White Truffles are the finest Fresh Eating Truffles known in the World. I've enjoyed White Truffles in over 20 different places where they are known to grow and there is none that even come remotely close. I was responsible for the first major White Truffle imports from Urbani into the United States thru the Twenty One Brands "Iron Gate" products line who also Imported "Golden Mollosal Sturgeon Cavier" [eggs the size of papaya seeds], and "Malapeaque Oysters", exclusively during that period.

We were delighted to serve them at the "Four Seasons" and "The Forum of the VII Caesars" Restaurants in NYC. We also featured "Fresh Black Truffles" in cooked dishes from France.

There are very few Restaurants classified as being exceptional anywhere in the world that I haven't had the pleasure of enjoying dining or even spending time in the Kitchen with the Chefs or Owners. The majority of the time if I'm recognized the check is often comped or I'll be dining pre-arranged by the Restaurants principals or getting paid for being there, but whatever the reason I'm not concerned about the price nor over indulging. However thats the main reason why I never review or state my personal opinions about any restaurant.

The only exceptions are regarding those I've eaten at since being semi-retired or have no connections to anyone whom I'm familiar with professionally.

In so far as the expense to value rationalzation I've spent several days in San Francisco and Las Vegas recently and my overnight hotel room, airfare and dinners were right in line with the price of a dinner, room etc at the Herb Farm as it still was in the neighborhood of under $600.00 for 2 persons.

I would never ever assume that someone was aware of the Menu for the date and time they made a reservation, especially since they rarely offer you a choice of dates or menu availability since they do a good job of insinuating that your expected to be honored that theres a opening for the occasion. Part of the my way or no way attitude that prevails. I'm sure that a firm assertive, questioning responses from a client regarding a choice of dates or menus is unusual.

My only objection to the perspective, treatment of customers at the Herbfarm, is that it's become theatrical, with the operation being the size and type that it is I see no reason why they don't offer to treat repeat customers different then those coming there for their first experience by offering them a choice of accommodation. Two many customers aren't comfortable returning because of their my way or no way attitude. I've never seen any restaurant sustaining longevity without going out of their way to treat repeat customers as if they are special. At their price level it 's smarter to remember that your a service business not a show or one time performance. Before the fire they tried harder, did better and were more accommodating. But even that's not just my opinion.

While it's true that when your dining at the Herbfarm you are expected to partake of the meal without substitutes. Except for Basque Type Restaurants or Family Boarding House Style Tables moderately priced It's unique to the Herbfarm as is their reservation policy. I don't generally choose to partake of Chefs Tasting Menus at establishments that require the entire table to order that menu only unless that something that the majority prefer, then I'll go along with the majority.

I do try my best to always make the best out of every dining experience, but still prefer the option of ordering whatever i'm in the mood to eat. I like the chance to order specials of the day or even something not on the menu if i've hoped it was available that day or I coveted the dish having enjoyed it previously.

I hope that you enjoy the Herbfarm and provide us all a through report of your experience. How long is the current wait for reservations?

Irwin

[Wilson]

It's simply not true that the top restaurants "hover around $125 for their menus." I can't remember the last time I walked out of a top restaurant for less than $200 a person, and usually significantly more.

Sorry, but when I go to a restaurant I don't look at the prices. I've already decided before I walk in the door whether we can afford it. Trust me, there have been times -- admittedly in the past, but not all that long ago -- when we couldn't afford certain places. So we ignored them? Just like now. I can't afford a mansion in Medina; am I going to quibble about whether a $2.5 million place that I can't afford is really only worth $1.9 million, which I also can't afford? No, I'm simply not going to think about living in Medina. And I don't feel one bit deprived by it!

Whether or not the wine is included is beside the point. If you can't afford $160 a person, you can't afford $125 a person. In this regard, I'm in agreement with whoever said if you have to ask the price of a yacht you can't afford it. If you're worrying about how much it costs to eat at Herfarm or French Laundry or Charlie Trotter's or Lucas Carton or Rover's or Mistral, then I think you're best off to skip them altogether.

Those places aren't about "value" as it's commonly presented in most of the economy. They are about seeking the very best that can be obtained, regardless of the cost. I completely respect someone's decision to opt out of that game; what I don't respect is someone's decision to judge these places by the irrelevant criteria best symbolize by Comsumer Reports magazine.

I might add that I'm a big fan of CR when it comes to products that I'm not really passionate about. But as an arbiter of excellence for its own sake, no one in their right mind turns to CR or its analogs for guidance.

[Wilson]

Irwin, your criticisms of Herbfarm's theatricality and inflexibility strike me as well-taken reservations, and they are issues in my mind as well. My companion doesn't like fish, and if Herbfarm requires that fish be eaten then we're not going. So, I guess that means that I am one of the customers who will be "assertive" about the menu. Anyway, this has been sort of a wild discussion because I don't care nearly as intensely as I've portrayed. It's one of those Internet arguments, I guess.

I'll be sure to let everyone know how it works out!

[Wilson]

p.s.: Irwin, thanks for the stuff about white truffles. How about a compare and contrast with black truffles? An elementary question to you, I'm sure. But I really am interested and am not pulling your leg here. I'm starting to reach that point where I really pay attention.

[Joe H]

Wilson, in some places it should be a concern of your's what the prix fixe is. At Marc Veyrat it's E325 (that's US $414.38 at the current rate of exchange). For two people if you add a moderately priced bottle of wine (say, third growth for about E175) along with two glasses of sauterne or port (about E20-25 each) we have a bill of E325 X 2 + 175 + E50 + tip (5% in France to compliment that which is included in check) = E919 X US $1.275 (current exchange rate) = US $1,172 for dinner for two. This is not such an extreme example. At Arpege the prix fixe is E300, Pierre Gagnaire, E280, etc. There are some restaurants in the world where you really SHOULD be concerned about the price. Irwin could also provide some detail about three day dinners in China that hover around US $10,000 per person for 100+ courses or dinners in Japan which can reach into the thousands of dollars for two people. For one meal in one night. I wouldn't be quite so cavalier or flippant about the cost of a meal and one's ability to afford it. It IS very much about value. The markup on a bottle wine has a great deal to do with whether I will buy it or not. A $200 bottle of, say, '97 Solaia tastes a helluva lot better to me than a $450 bottle of the same wine. I may even walk into a restaurant thinking that I won't spend more than $50 on a bottle, see a real bargain and spring for it.

For someone who can really afford to dine on this level they are going to be more protective with their money than you would imagine.

ExtraMSG'c comment about the top end hovering around $125 in the U. S. market (and around E 125 in many two and three stars outside of France, by the way) is quite knowledgable. Your comment about $200 is consistent with this since a prix fixe of 125 plus wine, tax and tip will equal $200 per person or more depending on wine, etc.

I think for the moment, I would focus more on, say, Emmett Watson and less on the Herb Farm.

[Wilson]

Well, Joe, this part of the thread started with my comment that $189 doesn't matter by comparison to $159. I then took the bold step of declaring that $175 doesn't matter relative to $125. But yes, I will admit that $500 does matter relative to $10,000. You've got me there. Good thing I never liked Japanese or Chinese food very much anyway.

[wesza]

Wilson, in some places it should be a concern of your's what the prix fixe is. At Marc Veyrat it's E325 (that's US $414.38 at the current rate of exchange). For two people if you add a moderately priced bottle of wine (say, third growth for about E175) along with two glasses of sauterne or port (about E20-25 each) we have a bill of E325 X 2 + 175 + E50 + tip (5% in France to compliment that which is included in check) = E919 X US $1.275 (current exchange rate) = US $1,172 for dinner for two. This is not such an extreme example. At Arpege the prix fixe is E300, Pierre Gagnaire, E280, etc. There are some restaurants in the world where you really SHOULD be concerned about the price. Irwin could also provide some detail about three day dinners in China that hover around US $10,000 per person for 100+ courses or dinners in Japan which can reach into the thousands of dollars for two people. For one meal in one night. I wouldn't be quite so cavalier or flippant about the cost of a meal and one's ability to afford it. It IS very much about value. The markup on a bottle wine has a great deal to do with whether I will buy it or not. A $200 bottle of, say, '97 Solaia tastes a helluva lot better to me than a $450 bottle of the same wine. I may even walk into a restaurant thinking that I won't spend more than $50 on a bottle, see a real bargain and spring for it.

For someone who can really afford to dine on this level they are going to be more protective with their money than you would imagine.

ExtraMSG'c comment about the top end hovering around $125 in the U. S. market (and around E 125 in many two and three stars outside of France, by the way) is quite knowledgable. Your comment about $200 is consistent with this since a prix fixe of 125 plus wine, tax and tip will equal $200 per person or more depending on wine, etc.

I think for the moment, I would focus more on, say, Emmett Watson and less on the Herb Farm.

Joe:

Your correct about Meal prices in Europe but don't forget that Hotels are much more expensive especially since the Euro's are inflated. I'm sure that it won't last that long. Also they add on much higher service charges and miscellaneous taxes they we are accustomed to generally pay at Restaurants or Hotels.

In Hong Kong it always been the case that the Restaurants that serve only Live Seafood are to expensive for tourist or visitiors. Every Fish, Crab or Shellfish are sold live by the ounce based on the total weight of every selection. The cost of Cooking, Sauces and Ingredients are also added on to the price.

The Average Fish begins at about $1.50 per ounce and goes as high as excess of $125.00 per ounce for Fish like Horsehead Garoupas. Most Fish average starting about 1 1/2 to 5 pounds each and upwards. You are even charged for the codiments seperately.

These type Restaurants are so busy that you often must book tables in advance. Even soups such as various types of Shark Fin, Birds Nest or Crab Fat or Ginsing are even more expensive then the Seafood. Special Teas such as Monkey Teas can cost $125.00 per cup. Bottles of Brandy are generally VSOP, Napolean or better and are generally the custom to be ordered at each table. Imported Wines are also available at reasonable service charges if requested.

There is rarely any staff who speak any English and you could imagine the Price Shock if any tourist accidently eat at the restaurants who are accustomed to the very reasonable prices charged for what they consider Chinese Food at home.

While I lived in Hong Kong I would eat several times a week at these type restaurants when there were likely to be seasonal specialty Fish, Crab or Shellfish that were fair value, we didn't drink and order a nice Yunnan Tea like Po Lai. It went with the lifestyle of expatriates who were accustomed to being in the community. But a meal at "Gaddis" in the Penninsula Hotels was much less expensive. On special occassions we would book a table for a party of 10/12 and the menu would be prepared by a assigned Chef taking several days to complete in advance.

The last two meals that I enjoyed at the French Laundry before it closed temporarily averaged $115.00 and 140.00 per person plus tip, tax and Gratuity for groups of six.

Irwin :

[Joe H]

Extremely interesting, Irwin. Thank you.

I posted on another board that my wife were at the "old" Herb Farm before the fire (having waited about ten months or so for a reservation) but have not been to the new one. On their website the photographs look (to me) to be very different from what I have described as kind of a storybook cottage or "gingerbread house" sort of style that the first building seemed to have. Coupled with it's setting, literally surrounded by gardens, it was something of a fantasy type of presentation for the dinner. On the website the current Herb Farm reminds me of the Inn at Little Washington in Virginia, i.e. sumptuously luxurious. Perhaps I am totally wrong in what I see and am reading in something that is simply not there. But were you able to go to the original Herb Farm? If so do you feel there is a difference in the two rooms? The setting? The food then vs. now?

I must tell you that after the fire I lost quite a bit of interest in visiting the new one. There was almost an El Bulli or French Laundry type of appeal to the original with the difficulty of landing a reservation and then an incredible wait. What I see on their website today just doesn't have the same fascination for me. I remember my wife and I driving out from Seattle just to see the restaurant one time and walking around it although it wasn't open for dinner. I also remember buying herbs and spices from the little store that was in back of it. In fact it was because of this that we decided to make a reservation. I even built a trip to Vancouver around the reservation (we live in the Washington, D. C. suburbs). Does the Herb Farm of today have any of this? Is there still a garden as large as the original?

Thanks again, Irwin.

[tighe]

The majority of the time if I'm recognized the check is often comped or I'll be dining pre-arranged by the Restaurants principals or getting paid for being there, but whatever the reason I'm not concerned about the price nor over indulging.

Wow, this is great news for our lunch next week at Salumi....Irwin's got us covered...

[wesza]

p.s.: Irwin, thanks for the stuff about white truffles. How about a compare and contrast with black truffles? An elementary question to you, I'm sure. But I really am interested and am not pulling your leg here. I'm starting to reach that point where I really pay attention.

Wilson:

Since your interested in acquiring information about the differences between Black and White Truffles + I'm sure that may also include Mushrooms and our Pacific Northwest Wines I'll let you share a experience that can't be duplicated anywhere else. I personally find that this far exceeds anything that I've partaken at the "Herbfarm", since it's rebirth after the fire in value and dining experience.

This is a Restaurant operated by the Chef son of Americas pioneer of everything related to mushrooms quoting my friend "James Beard" after we had dined at Joe Czarnecki's Restaurant in Pennsylvania.

Joe's son has followed the Mushrooms west and taken the Northwests Black and White Truffles to the forefront at his in my opinion wonderfully "Jack Palmer House" Restaurant located in the Oregon Wine Country in Dayton, Oregon Tel # 503-864-2995. They are open serving dinner from 5:00 PM until 9:00 PM Tuesday thru Saturday if you'll phone ask them to recommend a close by B&B or Inn for you to spend the night and request that Jack prepare for you a special dinner with Black and White Truffles and other special Funghi he has available with complimentary wines. It will be a interesting experience and surprisingly reasonable or check the internet site and order from the menu, but leaving it up to Jack would be the way to go, believe me I've tried both. By the way they only know me as a satisfied return customer as I've only gone there to play not work.

Irwin

[wesza]

p.s.: Irwin, thanks for the stuff about white truffles. How about a compare and contrast with black truffles? An elementary question to you, I'm sure. But I really am interested and am not pulling your leg here. I'm starting to reach that point where I really pay attention.

Wilson:

Since your interested in acquiring information about the differences between Black and White Truffles + I'm sure that may also include Mushrooms and our Pacific Northwest Wines I'll let you share a experience that can't be duplicated anywhere else. I personally find that this far exceeds anything that I've partaken at the "Herbfarm", since it's rebirth after the fire in value and dining experience.

This is a Restaurant operated by the Chef son of Americas pioneer of everything related to mushrooms quoting my friend "James Beard" after we had dined at Joe Czarnecki's Restaurant in Pennsylvania.

Joe's son has followed the Mushrooms west and taken the Northwests Black and White Truffles to the forefront at his in my opinion wonderfully "Jack Palmer House" Restaurant located in the Oregon Wine Country in Dayton, Oregon Tel # 503-864-2995. They are open serving dinner from 5:00 PM until 9:00 PM Tuesday thru Saturday if you'll phone ask them to recommend a close by B&B or Inn for you to spend the night and request that Jack prepare for you a special dinner with Black and White Truffles and other special Funghi he has available with complimentary wines. It will be a interesting experience and surprisingly reasonable or check the internet site and order from the menu, but leaving it up to Jack would be the way to go, believe me I've tried both. By the way they only know me as a satisfied return customer as I've only gone there to play not work.

Irwin

[wesza]

p.s.: Irwin, thanks for the stuff about white truffles. How about a compare and contrast with black truffles? An elementary question to you, I'm sure. But I really am interested and am not pulling your leg here. I'm starting to reach that point where I really pay attention.

Wilson:

Since your interested in acquiring information about the differences between Black and White Truffles + I'm sure that may also include Mushrooms and our Pacific Northwest Wines I'll let you share a experience that can't be duplicated anywhere else. I personally find that this far exceeds anything that I've partaken at the "Herbfarm", since it's rebirth after the fire in value and dining experience.

This is a Restaurant operated by the Chef son of Americas pioneer of everything related to mushrooms quoting my friend "James Beard" after we had dined at Joe Czarnecki's Restaurant in Pennsylvania.

Joe's son has followed the Mushrooms west and taken the Northwests Black and White Truffles to the forefront at his in my opinion wonderfully "Jack Palmer House" Restaurant located in the Oregon Wine Country in Dayton, Oregon Tel # 503-864-2995. They are open serving dinner from 5:00 PM until 9:00 PM Tuesday thru Saturday if you'll phone ask them to recommend a close by B&B or Inn for you to spend the night and request that Jack prepare for you a special dinner with Black and White Truffles and other special Funghi he has available with complimentary wines. It will be a interesting experience and surprisingly reasonable or check the internet site and order from the menu, but leaving it up to Jack would be the way to go, believe me I've tried both. By the way they only know me as a satisfied return customer as I've only gone there to play not work.

Irwin

[wesza]

Don't know what happened but for some reason my Computer froze up and somehow it managed to post 3 responses to my reply to Wilsons inquiry. I reinterate don't know what happened, hope it can be fixed.

Irwin

[wesza]

The majority of the time if I'm recognized the check is often comped or I'll be dining pre-arranged by the Restaurants principals or getting paid for being there, but whatever the reason I'm not concerned about the price nor over indulging.

Wow, this is great news for our lunch next week at Salumi....Irwin's got us covered...

Tighe:

No problem, especially since I'm only allowed to carry around upto $50.00 cash and no credit cards during lunch hours by my keeper.

I'll be the one eating lunch with the bag over his head with a larger then required mouth opening.

I also react weirdly when someone requests "Separate Check's" , "I only have a Credit Card", or "Do you take Personal Check's" during these types of occasions. Be carefull if you tip less the 20% as I'll report you on the wait persons internet site of whom to watch out for in the Emerald City.

If no one else shows up for lunch then I'll try my best to eat all 8 lunches and pack the rest to bring home. It much better then what I'd make myself. Just think of all the glares I'll be getting from those who waited for tables only to see me sitting by myself gorging with both hands all that food. Maybe I'll have it video taped before my trip to the Asylum.

At least the check will be covered by my keeper who always has emergency funds available since I'm unpredictable so your assumption is correct.

Irwin

[Wilson]

Irwin,

Thanks a lot for the recommendation, and I will absolutely follow up and report back. I have relatives in Eugene and get down that way a few times a year.

Wilson

[Wilson]

p.s.: I almost always get chef's tasting menus in top places. I enjoy the surprise of it.

[Wilson]

Speaking of Pac NW wines, I'm a tad bit underwhelmed by Oregon pinot noir. I am familiar with the reputation, but what I've had so far strikes me as being overwhelmed by the fruit. Irwin, you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable guy to put it mildly. What do you think? Am I nuts or am I onto something? When we went to Mistral, one of the wines they served was a California pinor noir by Arcadian (Santa Lucia Highlands). I recall telling the folks how refreshing it was not to be smashed in the forehead with a strawberry pneumatic drill.

[Wilson]

Sorry about these multiple posts, but I forgot to make my other comment, and that's about the beer around here. How come there are 75 microbreweries in the Pac NW but they all make the same ale? It's like they're all competing to see who can put more hops in than the last guy. I like bitter, honest I do, but holy cow. Haven't any of these people ever met a Pilsner they liked? Do all the microbrewers meet in secret every Thursday and take a pledge not to use any malt in their brew?

[wesza]

Speaking of Pac NW wines, I'm a tad bit underwhelmed by Oregon pinot noir. I am familiar with the reputation, but what I've had so far strikes me as being overwhelmed by the fruit. Irwin, you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable guy to put it mildly. What do you think? Am I nuts or am I onto something? When we went to Mistral, one of the wines they served was a California pinor noir by Arcadian (Santa Lucia Highlands). I recall telling the folks how refreshing it was not to be smashed in the forehead with a strawberry pneumatic drill.

Wilson:

I'm not much of a Wine drinker but because of my palette and experience have been honored to judge at various competitions.

I feel that the Oregon and Washington "Pinot Noirs", are evolving into some of the finest in America.

If your interested in being one up on, "Pinot Noirs' then become familiar with the Mendocino Coast, Anderson Valley Pinot Noirs that because of it's unique climate they are expected to become one of the finest areas for this wine in the World. I've compared them with well known Vintners and they anticipate that this may become the place to watch. Something to do with the Fog and Mist in the weather pretty much year round plus proximity to the Ocean.

My son lives there at the top of Noyo Ridge where on each side of his house are vineyards growing Champagne Grapes owned by Roderer and Moet & Chandon for the last 10/12 years where they are producing their best American Champagnes. These growers all agree about the potential of the Pinot Noir's from this area.

Irwin

[seacrotty]

Sorry about these multiple posts, but I forgot to make my other comment, and that's about the beer around here. How come there are 75 microbreweries in the Pac NW but they all make the same ale? It's like they're all competing to see who can put more hops in than the last guy. I like bitter, honest I do, but holy cow. Haven't any of these people ever met a Pilsner they liked? Do all the microbrewers meet in secret every Thursday and take a pledge not to use any malt in their brew?

...and I'll come to the defense of the Pac NW brewers. I've never been invited to be a tasting judge, but I've got no small experience with beer: tasting tours in several countries, plenty of trips to microbreweries during a 10-year stint in the SF Bay area, and hands-on brewing experience. The breadth of beer styles and varieties available in the bottle and on tap in the Pacific NW, especially in Seattle and Portland, is simply breathtaking. Beer is appreciated like wine here, and that is one of the most pleasant discoveries that I've made since moving here.

It's true that brewers on the US west coast and the Pac NW tend to brew heavier, sweeter, hoppier beers. If you're a fan of pilsner to the exception of all else, you will have to search a bit for something local that will please your palate. I recommend starting with some of the local "blonde" beers -- Hales Drawbridge Blonde is my current favorite. I think that Red Hook makes one also. Hales also makes an absolutely spectacular cream ale that may be to your liking -- worth seeking out on tap.

I'm a bit confused, though, as you profess to dislike hops and prefer malt flavors, as pilsners are typically characterized by a strong hop taste and little if any sweetness. Pilsner Urquell is a widely-available brand that's a good example of the standard.

You may enjoy the selection of German beer on tap at Prost (7311 Greenwood Ave.) in the Phinney Ridge neighborhood. Lots of sweet, unhoppy suds.

cameron

p.s. I guess that this thread isn't really about the Herbfarm anymore.

Post edited to add that last meta-realization.

Edited January 30, 2004 by seacrotty (log)

[Wilson]

I'm going to move my beer discussion over to the beer forum.