Troubleshooting Tempering

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, martin0642 said:

 

 

Also - as we also know.........chocolate has yet to read any of the chemistry books and will behave exactly as it chooses, no matter what the "science" says

Ain't that the truth!

[Rajala]

I will be in a situation where temperatures reach around 30 degrees celsius, and need to temper in that temperature. At least try to. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions how to handle that? It feels like tempering white chocolate would be the hardest.  

[curls]

45 minutes ago, Rajala said:

I will be in a situation where temperatures reach around 30 degrees celsius, and need to temper in that temperature. At least try to. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions how to handle that? It feels like tempering white chocolate would be the hardest.  

I'm curious to see what others suggest to your dilemma. I would either find a way to cool down your workspace to at least 22 degrees celsius (72 F), suggest an alternative to chocolates (popsicles or ice cream), or decline the job. Guess  another alternative is to use compound chocolate/summer coating but very few of those products taste good.

 

Would you be willing to share any more details about this situation and why you are considering an attempt to work with chocolate at 30 C?

[Rajala]

3 hours ago, curls said:

I'm curious to see what others suggest to your dilemma. I would either find a way to cool down your workspace to at least 22 degrees celsius (72 F), suggest an alternative to chocolates (popsicles or ice cream), or decline the job. Guess  another alternative is to use compound chocolate/summer coating but very few of those products taste good.

 

Would you be willing to share any more details about this situation and why you are considering an attempt to work with chocolate at 30 C?

 

You're thinking about something like cooling down a marble slab a bit? That would be a possibility. But it will be outside, so it would still be a higher temperature in the air. It doesn't have to be perfect, I would just need to get the chocolate tempered and I could ret it set in the fridge. If there are some few ugly spots on it, it doesn't matter.

 

It's for a friend, party outside - and it would be a fun thing to do. I'm just thinking about what's possible and how to overcome the biggest challenge with the high surrounding temperature, and thought that there would be some knowledge here.  

 

 

[teonzo]

If the temperature is around 30°C (and not above) then tempering is not a big issue. You just need to melt the chocolate with a good advance (say about a couple hours), let it rest at your hot working temperature (30°C) until it reaches it, then temper it via seeding or agitation. Checking temper is mandatory (using a fridge). A cold water bath (water with some ice cubes at about 8-10°C, not iced water at 0°C) can be of help in case the party day will be hotter than 30°C. Beware of thermal inertia: if you cool a bowl with chocolate in a cold water bath, then the chocolate will keep cooling after you take the bowl out of the bath (the bowl reached a lower temperature than the one you are measuring inside the chocolate). This should cover the tempering part.

The big problem is on the rest. Making decorations / sculptures I would say is out of question, too many obstacles. Hand dipping would be a nightmare, since you would need to stop every few pieces. Molded bonbons are doable, you need to put the molds in the fridge before pouring the chocolate to create the shell, but you need to use the molds when they are around 20-22°C, if you use them at fridge temperature then you get a THICK shell. To do so you need to open the fridge and check the temperature at close intervals, but I suppose you will be using a portable fridge (since it's an outside party) dedicated to only this purpose, so you don't risk to ruin the other food in a normal fridge. For the filling, just use a gianduja and forget about the rest to avoid troubles. Capping is the crucial part, if you start with the mold at a low temperature then you ruin everything (chocolate will set immediately and you won't be able to scrape the mold). I would suggest to limit the number of molds to 4 and not above, since you will loose a lot of time cheking their temperatures (this is the case when an infrared thermometer is your best friend). Carry plenty of ice packets inside the portable fridge,  put the molds in a single layer without overlapping them, so check your fridge size (in case ask for a second portable fridge). When talking to party girls don't be chocolatey technical, keep it simple and pretend to be a magician not a technician.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[pastrygirl]

8 hours ago, Rajala said:

I will be in a situation where temperatures reach around 30 degrees celsius, and need to temper in that temperature. At least try to. Anyone got any ideas or suggestions how to handle that? It feels like tempering white chocolate would be the hardest.  

 

That sounds like a challenge! Do you know anyone with an anti-griddle?

 

Do you specifically want to make mo(u)lded chocolates, or just do something fun with chocolate for your friend?  Is it meant to be only a demonstration, or will guests take part?

 

Definitely find a shady spot with good air circulation and away from brick or concrete walls or patios that will be heating up in the sun all day.  You could get a few blocks of ice and blow fans over them to generate cold air, that might help.

 

If you're open to things other than mo(u)lding, what about something involving ice cream, since it's going to be so warm out.  Thin milk and dark chocolate down with coconut oil then dip ice cream sandwiches or fruit popsicles in it.  Have a variety of nuts and sprinkles that people can add on. 

 

Or use ice to make the chocolate set and make chocolate bowls to fill with berries and whipped cream (etc)

 

[Rajala]

Thanks @teonzo ! I'll store the moulds in a colder place - seems like that is the key for this.

 

Don't know anyone with that @pastrygirl, but it will be mostly making a simple bonbon or maybe a chocolate bar. Ice cream is a good thing to think about though.

 

 

[AKS613]

I was watching an Irish baking show and the expert said that an easy way to temper/keep temper is to melt it to a temp no higher than 35C. As long as the chocolate doesn’t creep beyond that it will stay tempered. No need to heat and cool. Has anyone ever heard/tried this?

[teonzo]

It works if you start from perfectly tempered chocolate. But I would say 35°C is a bit too high, better using 32°C as a reference for dark chocolate, 30°C for milk and white chocolate. If you go above them you start risking.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[Jim D.]

IF (and this is crucial) the chocolate is tempered when you start--which usually means you take it out of the manufacturer's bag--this method works. It's what I ordinarily use when I am making ganache and want to keep the chocolate in temper. You can take it up to 35C or even higher as long as a good portion of it (maybe 1/4 or 1/3) remains unmelted. You take it off the heat, and as the unmelted chocolate melts, it provides the seed to temper the rest. Why don't people use this method all the time? For the simple reason that it's not practical when you are dealing with more than a small amount; it requires too much attention, care, and time.

[Kerry Beal]

What Jim says - I nuke until it's pretty close to 3/4's melted and let the residual heat do the rest of the work. Works well one small amounts with chocolate straight out of the bag and a microwave you can trust.

 

 

[AKS613]

Thanks so much for the responses I really appreciate it!

[Kim Shook]

Honestly, this is how I always do it.  Yes, it has to start out tempered.  And it is not perfect - you don't get that lovely mirror finish and the perfect snap.  But it does work pretty well.  I usually heat it to about 85F and then sit the bowl on a heating pad set to 100F and keep checking that it doesn't go over 90F.  

[Jim D.]

15 minutes ago, Kim Shook said:

Honestly, this is how I always do it.  Yes, it has to start out tempered.  And it is not perfect - you don't get that lovely mirror finish and the perfect snap.  But it does work pretty well.  I usually heat it to about 85F and then sit the bowl on a heating pad set to 100F and keep checking that it doesn't go over 90F.  

 

I don't know of any reason that chocolate tempered this way would not have exactly the same qualities as when being tempered some other way. If it doesn't have a snap (after sitting a while to allow crystallization to continue), then I would wonder whether it is in temper. When I am making shells for a mold or two, I use this method, and the chocolate is just like what I get when use a tempering machine for a large quantity.

[teonzo]

We are talking about two slightly different methods.

What you (Jim and Kerry) are suggesting is the partial melt and mix, which requires manual work and is feasible for small quantities.

The other method consists in just leaving the chocolate undisturbed in a place at constant temperature. After the due time you will find it melted and tempered, ready for use. This is what was used decades ago before tempering machines were affordable for artisans. Pastry chefs put big amounts of chocolate in a proofer set at the correct temperature (30-32°C for dark, 28-30°C for milk and white), went to sleep, the morning after they found big quantities of chocolate ready to use. This was the main method used during Easter season time ago, still used nowadays by a bunch of people who can't afford a tempering machine. If some amateur has a proofing chamber for bread, then he/she can use this method to get melted tempered chocolate with no effort.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[cslas]

Reviving and old post. Can you reseed chocolate that's suffered from sugar bloom?

[Kerry Beal]

7 hours ago, cslas said:

Reviving and old post. Can you reseed chocolate that's suffered from sugar bloom?

Good question - once that sugar is out of the complex you might end up with grit. Better to use in a ganache or hot chocolate.

[cslas]

@Kerry Beal That's what I thought. Thanks for confirming

[bbrizend]

I have a Chocovision Revolation V tempering machine and about 5 lbs of left over Callebaut Dark, Recipe 811 chocolate that is not in temper.  I used the chocolate to make some chocolate covered cherries the other day and they all, almost immediately, bloomed.  So I did some reading and decided to try a tempering test.  Using the crystallization chart on the side of the Callebaut bag as a guide I set my machine to have a melt temperature of 118 degrees, a delta temp of 80.6 degree, and a temper temperature of 89 degrees.  The room was about 72 degrees and the humidity was about 60%.  I ran the machine through its tempering cycle, melt to 118, cool to 80.6, and warm to 89 all the while being stirred, and then took samples of the chocolate.  I did not use any ‘seed’ chocolate during this process.  I realize using seed may have been more successful but based on my understanding of the melting and formation of cocoa butter crystals I shouldn’t have to.  I sampled the chocolate as soon as the machine said it was in temper, at 5 minutes post temper and at 10 minutes.  I spread the samples on parchment on a granite counter top.  The samples took longer to set than I think they should have, I’m talking like 10 – 15 minutes, and, in a short while, they bloomed.  By the way: as check I used another accurate thermometer to check the temperature of the chocolate at the 3 stages and the machine and the thermometer were within a few tenths of a degrees of each other.  So, what’s the problem?  Why did this chocolate not temper?

[Kerry Beal]

How certain are you of the accuracy of your accurate thermometer? 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Kerry Beal (log)

[bbrizend]

Very certain.  It's a calibrated Thermapen.

[Kerry Beal]

Out of curiosity - how long does the rev keep the chocolate at 27º C?

[bbrizend]

Essentially no time.  As soon as the chocolate hits 80.6 it begins the warming cycle.

[Kerry Beal]

Then maybe turn it down to 77 so there is enough time for the form IV and V crystals to form before it heats back up again. 

[gfron1]

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

Then maybe turn it down to 77 so there is enough time for the form IV and V crystals to form before it heats back up again. 

This is one of the things I've been doing. Once I realized where the thermometer probe was I realized that not all of the chocolate was at temp. So I drop an additional degree and manually test at my spout and also center of the pool. With those three probe points I have confidence that I've hit temp.