Anyone use Marshmallow in Molded Chocolates?

[Bentley]

I'd like to do a smores flavor and a few other uses of marshmallows in some molded chocolates.  Can anyone give me some guidance on preparing marshmallows so that I can pipie them into the molds?  I see a problem similar to the PDFs....by the time they are cool enough to put in the chocolate shells, they are too firm to pipe.   Anyone have any tips, pointers, suggestions, etc.?

Edited September 8, 2016 by Smithy
Added tag (log)

[ChocoMom]

Not sure if it is considered cheating if one uses Marshmellow Fluff instead of actual marshmellows, but that is what I used in my "Fluffernutter"  bon bon, and it turned out quite lovely. I just blended it in with the slightly warm milk chocolate/pb ganache- so it was kind of marbled, and then piped it into the shells. 

[Lisa Shock]

You could cut them to fit, yes there would be gaps, but, if you piped in a little ganache (smoke flavored?) and then pressed the marshmallow down, the ganache would rise up around the marshmallow. You could maybe soak graham crackers in heated cream like making cereal milk, and maybe add smoke flavor, then make a white chocolate ganache. -This way you wouldn't have to worry about the graham crackers getting soft.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Lisa Shock (log)

[lebowits]

I've seen this done a couple of times.  I would need to go back and review the formula & method for making the pipeable marshmallow.  That being said, it needs to be the first element piped into the molded shell.  It will not lay completely flat.  Piping another element (e.g. ganache) on top should give you a flatter surface to seal over.

[Bentley]

2 hours ago, lebowits said:

I've seen this done a couple of times.  I would need to go back and review the formula & method for making the pipeable marshmallow.  That being said, it needs to be the first element piped into the molded shell.  It will not lay completely flat.  Piping another element (e.g. ganache) on top should give you a flatter surface to seal over.

I would appreciate it if you could review your materials and share any tips that you are willing to reveal.

[pastryani]

I've often thought about this.   I've made marshmallow before but never temped it - at what temp does marshmallow come off of the machine (which I believe is the only point that it's pipeable)?

 

If you wanted a flat surface and a dry graham cracker, you could stick in a cocoa butter-coated (or chocolate-coated) piece on top of the marshmallow and then seal, but your bonbon mold would have to be pretty deep.  I'm anxiously awaiting what lebowits' has to say. 

[teonzo]

Melissa Coppel has some recipes, like this one:

http://www.melissacoppel.com/en/recipe5.html

 

 

 

Teo

 

[RobertM]

absolutely coat your graham in cocoa butter.  

[curls]

Like RobertM says, coat your graham cracker - chocolate will also work. If you don't coat it, moisture will change the texture.

 

@Bentley in the 2nd edition of Greweling's book, there is a recipe for pipeable marshmallow.

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, RobertM said:

absolutely coat your graham in cocoa butter.  

 

It's also possible to make a liquid graham cracker that you can pipe with graham cracker crumbs and oil or browned butter.  Or let set and cut into pieces.  It is denser than plain graham crackers.

[Bentley]

8 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

It's also possible to make a liquid graham cracker that you can pipe with graham cracker crumbs and oil or browned butter.  Or let set and cut into pieces.  It is denser than plain graham crackers.

Do tell more about this....

[pastrygirl]

13 hours ago, Bentley said:

Do tell more about this....

 

A few years back, Johnny Iuzzini and some other chefs introduced liquid sable - a sable butter cookie, baked, then pureed in the food processor with a little oil.  It takes a while (faster if the cookies are still warm).  If there is butter in the cookie, you only need about 10-15% by weight of oil to liquify.  It'll be soft at room temp but can be frozen for easier handling.  Obviously, more oil makes it more liquid. 

 

Since I hate pressing in crumb crusts, I've adapted the theory to graham crackers and use the liquid crust for no-bake cheesecake and lemon bars.  Since they are lower in fat than your typical butter cookie, I add more fat, and use browned butter for flavor.  For a 1/4 sheet pan crust, I lightly toast 300 g graham cracker crumbs, add 50 g sugar and  a bit of salt, then process with 125 g melted browned butter.  I spread the crust in the pan then chill to set before adding my topping.

[Bentley]

On 9/8/2016 at 6:23 PM, teonzo said:

Melissa Coppel has some recipes, like this one:

http://www.melissacoppel.com/en/recipe5.html

 

 

I am curious why she uses isomalt.  I've seen a ton of marshmallow recipes, and hers is the only one that uses it.  Most use just sugar and glucose.

[pastrygirl]

Kate Weiser has these chocolate pears with marshmallow that looks piped in on her Instagram ...

 

 

[Bentley]

I saw that on her feed.  I have emailed her previously with other questions about her pieces but she has never responded.  She either doesn't like to share her techniques or more likely is extremely busy.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Bentley (log)

[pastrygirl]

@Bentley possibly both!

 

I'm taking a class with Melissa Coppel next week (mentioned above by Teonzo), if we do a pipeable marshmallow, I'll let you know. 

 

I used to make a marshmallow chantilly by toasting marshmallows in the oven then dissolving them in cream.  I then whipped the cream in an iSi.  For a bonbon, maybe a white chocolate ganache where the cream had marshmallows melted into it.  You can also play with toasting white chocolate, I've burnt it with a propane torch to get some of the smoky flavor of a campfire. 

 

 

[Bentley]

@pastrygirl Lucky you!  Perhaps you could also inquire why she uses isomalt in her marshmallow recipe.  I've never seen another marshallow recipe that uses it.  

 

I am also curious if the egg used in the marshmallows diminishes the shelf life.  I see a lot of recipes that use egg white powder or no egg at all - I wonder if those are better for molded chocolates.

[pastrygirl]

On 9/19/2016 at 0:41 PM, Bentley said:

@pastrygirl Lucky you!  Perhaps you could also inquire why she uses isomalt in her marshmallow recipe.  I've never seen another marshallow recipe that uses it.  

 

I am also curious if the egg used in the marshmallows diminishes the shelf life.  I see a lot of recipes that use egg white powder or no egg at all - I wonder if those are better for molded chocolates.

 

Ok, so we made marshmallow today and piped it straight out of the mixer, so it was cooled below 90F but not yet set.  I haven't eaten that one yet so I'm not sure how firm it set, but it was relatively soft and flowing.  She uses isomalt because it is less sweet and marshmallow is always soooo sweet when made with mostly sucrose.  Her theory on egg (and cheese for that matter) is that shelf life is all about AW, not ingredients.  But long shelf life doesn't seem to be her focus, to be honest. 

[Jim D.]

Pastrygirl,

Very interesting information and good of you to share it.  If you have more time with Melissa and the subject of shelf life comes up, perhaps you could inquire as to what effect adding alcohol to a filling has and whether it is quantifiable in any way.  This is being discussed in the thread about cheese fillings for chocolates.  I had read from the eGullet workshop in Las Vegas a couple of years back that shelf life did not appear to be one of her great concerns.

 

Jim

[pastrygirl]

@Jim D., class wrapped up today, I'm heading back home tomorrow morning (after a little shopping at Chef Rubber).  Melissa Coppel seems way more interested in making cool stuff and keeping it new and different than shelf life (and I think being a Cacao Barry Ambassador requires a certain focus on presentation and innovation).  We made a handful of things with crispy layers that she acknowledged would only stay crispy next to soft ganache for a matter of days. 

 

I'd guess the effect of alcohol would be whatever effect is has on AW, and you'd need a lot to rely on alcohol as a preservative.  She is a big fan of dextrose, invert sugar, and sorbitol in everything, to both lower sweetness and bind/retain water. 

 

A lot of her stuff just isn't practical for mass production, and she admits it.  Tape stripes and three different colors of cocoa butter airbrushed in then multiple fillings look amazing but are really hard to make any kind of profit on with all that labor.  Pretty freaking tricked out kitchen though - 3 selmis, enrobing line with cooling tunnel, panning machine, gelato machine, blast freezer, large spray booth.  But back to shelf life -  didn't you spring for an AW meter?  Is it helping with your formulations?

 

We did make one ganache with parmesan but that was infused and strained out, and another with mascarpone but that's not really cheese in my book, just thickened cream.

 

Off topic, but interesting - she cleans her molds with 70% rubbing alcohol.  I dislike the smell of the stuff, but if it contributes to that impossible shine, I might have to adopt it.

[Bentley]

Thanks @pastrygirl for reporting back. Kate Weiser once said she cleans her molds with 91% isopropyl alcohol and cotton squares before every use......  When I went to a class at Norman Love, they said they rarely wash the molds and simply polish them with dry cotton balls before each use.  Both shops use a lot of molds from Chocolate World in Belgium and both have extremely shiny chocolates, so I guess there is more than one way to skin that particular cat.  

 

As for crispy layers, I wonder if it would help to airbrush in a thin layer of plain cocoa butter on top of the ganache before adding the crispy layer.  Do you think that would preserve the crispiness longer?  I'm playing around with how to incorporate a graham cracker layer in my smores bonbon.  

 

Also interesting about her use of egg. Does she measure the aW or her creations or does she just not worry about since she isn't selling them?  Stick With Me Sweets has a meringue layer in their Kalamansi Meringue Pie bonbon.   She also uses marshamallow in her Speculoos Smore bonbon.  Not sure if she is using fresh eggs or powdered.  But clearly, it can be done in commercial production.  

[pastrygirl]

@bentley oops, yes she uses the 91%, not 70%. 

 

I asked about spraying cocoa butter, she didn't encourage it. It would have to be a pretty thick layer to really waterproof, might as well dip your Grahams in chocolate. 

 

Egg is not crucial in marshmallow, you could try the gelatin and syrup version if you're concerned about egg. 

[Tri2Cook]

Quote

Egg is not crucial in marshmallow, you could try the gelatin and syrup version if you're concerned about egg. 

Yep. I can't even remember the last time I did use egg in marshmallow.

[pastrygirl]

And speaking of skinning cats, does this have to be a molded bonbon?  I hate hand dipping as much as anyone, but it would be a lot more straightforward to make your layer of marshmallow, top with ganache, cut and dip. Graham cracker next to marshmallow should do better than next to ganache, especially if you have a firm marshmallow. GC pieces or crumbs could be adhered to the marshmallow before dipping or added after as a garnish.. 

Edited September 23, 2016 by pastrygirl
Graham crackers (log)

[Bentley]

4 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

And speaking of skinning cats, does this have to be a molded bonbon?  I hate hand dipping as much as anyone, but it would be a lot more straightforward to make your layer of marshmallow, top with ganache, cut and dip. Graham cracker next to marshmallow should do better than next to ganache, especially if you have a firm marshmallow. GC pieces or crumbs could be adhered to the marshmallow before dipping or added after as a garnish.. 

 

It doesn't have to be a molded bonbon.  But I know that it can be done, because I've seen chocolate shops on the web offer a molded smores bonbon with marshmallow and some kind of graham cracker layer.  So it's more of a learning thing - to figure out how its done for my own knowledge.  I am constantly perusing my favorite chocolate shops and asking myself "How did they do that?"  Sometimes they'll tell me, other times they won't.  But I like to try to figure things out just to add to my knowledge.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Bentley (log)