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Vitamin K content of duck/goose liver?


markk
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On behalf of a friend who is starting on the drug Coumadin, for which constant levels of Vitamin K are crucial, I'm asking if anybody knows what the Vitamin K content of Foie Gras (duck liver, goose liver) are. It seems to be known that beef liver is high, but there's not much information on duck and goose liver and what there is suggests that it may be low - so if anybody has access to this information, that'll make one foie gras loving friend very happy (or maybe not :sad: )

Thanks!

Overheard at the Zabar’s prepared food counter in the 1970’s:

Woman (noticing a large bowl of cut fruit): “How much is the fruit salad?”

Counterman: “Three-ninety-eight a pound.”

Woman (incredulous, and loud): “THREE-NINETY EIGHT A POUND ????”

Counterman: “Who’s going to sit and cut fruit all day, lady… YOU?”

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On behalf of a friend who is starting on the drug Coumadin, for which constant levels of Vitamin K are crucial, I'm asking if anybody knows what the Vitamin K content of Foie Gras (duck liver, goose liver) are.  It seems to be known that beef liver is high, but there's not much information on duck and goose liver and what there is suggests that it may be low - so if anybody has access to this information, that'll make one foie gras loving friend very happy (or maybe not :sad: )

Dunno exactly, but I hope I can help.

1/ Vitamin K is actually an antidote to Coumadin (also known as Warfarin).

So, yes, if you eat a constant-ish quantity of Vitamin K, then your dosage will be adjusted by the clinic to match your diet.

But if you have major variations in diet (leading to changes in Vitamin K intake), while taking a constant drug dosage, then the clotting propensity of the patient's blood can/will vary.

However, the good news is that everything happens rather slowly.

If you always keep your Vitamin K intake totalled over any three day period fairly stable, then your blood clotting ("INR") will also be pretty stable.

2/ So what does "high" in Vitamin K mean?

Lets put some numbers on that.

For a healthy man the recommended daily minimum Vitamin K intake is 80microgrammes (mcg or µg). 60mcg or 70mcg for a woman.

So over three days, 240mcg male, 180/210mcg female.

Right, well against those numbers a 130g (say 1 cup) of boiled (frozen) kale (a leaf green) gives you 1147mcg (USDA figure - NDB 11236) which I'd say was high. Insanely high.

Lots of green vegetables are almost as high. 5 sprigs of parsley gives a man 1 day's worth (82mcg USDA - NDB 11297).

Working on the basis of a "days ration" is a fair way of thinking.

Broccoli is the Warfarin clinic's poster bad boy. But the USDA (NDB 11093) says 1 cup of boiled broccoli (184g - that's a big portion IMHO) contains 183mcg or just 2 days worth (maybe 3 days worth for a female).

But boiled spinach has 5x as much for the same quantity according to the USDA NDB 11458 & 11464.

And frozen peas (boiled) give more than half a days worth (160g 1 cup has 48mcg NDB 11303)

3/ What numbers are there for liver? And indications for goose liver...

Beef liver is nothing like those greens - 3oz (85g) of fried liver gives just 3mcg - a twentieth of a day's ration.

Chicken liver scores 0mcg in a 20g liver (USDA NDB 05028) (BTW I'd reckon that as meaning "less than 0.1mcg" rather than "absolutely none".)

But roast duck meat is fairly high for a meat at 8mcg in a 221g portion ... but thats still only about one tenth of a day's ration for "half" a duck (remember they are considering meat only) - its NDB 05142 at USDA. I said it was "high for a meat" but you'll find that a 3oz (85g) burger has 1.9mcg, so comparing equal weights, the duck is only very slightly richer. (NDB 23578)

If Goose (and Goose liver) were known to contain troublesome amounts of Vitamin K, I'd expect to see it listed. How common is Dandelion eating?

Therefore we can clearly see that, compared to the leaf greens, liver and duck (so likely goose and goose liver) aren't particularly rich in Vitamin K.

And just how much Foie Gras does your friend shift? :cool:

I really can't see NutritionData.com's suggested 13g portion making much impact on Vitamin K intake.

Not that it actually matters much - if it were a constant amount over any 3-day period...

4/ Don't trust everything you find on the internet.

There are some seriously bizarre figures to be found on some websites - which is why I've cited *only* the USDA National Nutrient Database - all figures from 19th release.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data...st/sr19w430.pdf

Worth printing out and referring to, IMHO...

5/ But similarly, not all the advice from professionals is equally well-founded.

Cranberry juice is strongly disapproved - but this actually stems from one particular individual starting drinking only cranberry juice, not eating ANY food, and maintaining his previous Warfarin dosage (based on his previous diet) - utterly daft behaviour!

Change your diet - test the blood and change the Warfarin dose to suit. That is basic.

Ask yourself why his medics blamed the Cranberry Juice...

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/327/7429/1454

There's a discussion of evidence for Cranberry interaction here

http://www.warfarinfo.com/cranberry.htm

It doesn't seem that there's any real evidence that normal small quantities as part of a balanced diet pose any risk at all... but it is disapproved. Officially.

And then there's Vitamin E. The Daily RDA for different adults is between 20 and 30 IU. Taking tablets with 1200 IU per day (yep that's about 2 month's worth each day) doesn't fit well with Warfarin. You couldn't eat anything like that much on an unsupplemented diet, but nevertheless you'll be professionally warned to watch out for Vitamin E.

I'm not a medic.

However, I do have a scientific background, and a family member now on Warfarin for life - since a second pulmonary embolism (PE) 6 months after Warfarin was withdrawn, having been prescribed for just 6 months after a first PE.

Go easy on the booze, don't self-medicate with extreme quantities of vitamins and "supplements", aim to be consistent over every (rolling period of) three days eating, and above all be consistent (and moderate) with the green veg ... and if one eats a bit of foie gras occasionally (or even regularly) it shouldn't do any harm (at least to the INR management).

Note that I say the above as one who does rather disapprove of foie gras, on animal welfare grounds. So, on this one occasion, I wouldn't mind too much if part of my advice were grossly misrepresented... :smile:

EDIT: typo

Edited by dougal (log)

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch ... you must first invent the universe." - Carl Sagan

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