Frege

Recommendations for restaurants in Paris open on Sundays for lunch and/or dinner. This will be the last day of my visit, so something special would be nice, although "good" is of course the operant notion! Thanks very much.

After having spent about a year in Venice in the 1990's, I am going back soon for my first visit in many years and I was wondering about recommendations for new restaurants. Back then among our favorites were Da Fiore, La Corte Sconta and Antico Dolo, and I am no so much interested in restaurants that would have been operating back then, but places that have opened (or risen in quality) since. I'm interested in restaurants from the high end (at least one meal is to be at the current best restaurant in town) to bacari, and anything in between. Thanks in advance. Robert

Sorry, not looking for on-line. I'm looking for what I asked about - restaurant supplies located in Chicago.

Can anyone give some advice on restaurant supply stores in Chicago? I'm not looking for a place for fixtures, but for a wide range of utensils, gadgets, china, etc. I went to Northwestern Cutlery and Herzog, and I thought they were both pretty poor - they weren't even up to the standard of average places on the Bowery, not to speak of J.B. Prince. Suggestions would be most appreciated.

Agreed, Passard is wonderful with veggies, and I also think that Gagnaire and l'Astrance would be wonderful choices for the veggie oriented. And I also agree that any chef worth his salt can turn out a great veggie-based meal with some advance notice. But my query is a little more pointed - below the lofty peaks of the restaurants mentioned, are there any chefs of note with a particular feel and sensitivity for vegetarians, (rather than treating it as a culinary affliction that need be catered to, no matter how well).

My sister will be in Paris next month. She appreciates fine restaurants (lives in Manhattan), but is a vegetarian. So I was wondering if folks could suggest restaurants that are vegetarian friendly - i.e. not vegetarian restaurants, per se, but chefs who are willing to accomodate to vegetarians at the same level that they cook for non-vegetarians. Thanks very much for your (as usual) great recommendations.

Here is a question. What restaurant in Paris which currently has one Michelin star (or none) do you think is most likely to ascend to the 3-star status in the foreseeable future? What chef or chefs do you see -given their cooking now - on that trajectory.

I heard a rumor that Guy Savoy in Las Vegas is closing. Anyone know details about this?

As the person who begat this thread, I thought I might weigh in. Although my stay was short, I did go to Vetri for the grand tasting menu. Here are some impressions: The meal, overall, was very good, with some substantial highlights. There was an excellent scallop crudo and a marinated venison to start. An onion crepe with white truffle sauce was OK - the components were rather jumbled and indistinct, and there wasn't a strong enough truffle flavor. (As far as I'm concerned, if you are going to make something with truffles, I want to taste the truffles.) Spinach gnocchi was very interesting - simultaneously seeming very heavy, yet also very light and fluffy. Next were the two best courses - a black walnut agnolloti that I adored, and a veal breast canneloni that my daughter adored. We finished with the roasted pork, which was good, but not outstanding. Deserts were OK, not great. There was the only mis-step of the night - the meringues were served with frozen centers. This earned us another round, along with a glass of a recioto. The wine pairing was very good. Nothing to knock your socks off, but one or two wines I would buy for myself, and it didn't detract from the food. So, to the extent that folks like grades, here are mine: Ambiance, B/B-. Small space with tables crammed in. Piped in music was horrible - way too loud. (I know of no 3* restaurant, here or abroad, that plays music.) Service, A-/B+. Attentive. Very good sommelier. Food: A-. Michelin rating: * (Certainly by US standards, and also by European, if you think there is a difference) Would I go again, sure. Now a few observations with Vadouven's remarks. with which on the whole I completely agree. (I also agree with his observations about "ethnic" food - ugh, I hate that appellation.) But, to get away from Philly, I thought I would throw in a few observations based on my own eating experiences of the top of the Michelin food chain. There are 3 star restaurants in the U.S. that would also be in Europe - French Laundry/Per Se and Jean-Georges would be. In my experience, some of the most delicious dishes I have ever eaten have been at Jean-Georges: I have gone back to lunch the day after dinner just to have the Turbot with Ch. Chalon sauce and his Corn Ravioli dish again, they were just so, so good. In New York, I agree, any number of 1 star restaurants would have no stars in Europe, although I think that Daniel is appropriate at 2 stars. The meal I had at Le Bernardin I thought was inferior; maybe an off night, but then again, part of being a 3 star restaurant is not having any off nights. Also, it is crazy that L.A. follow N.Y. - these simply are not eating/food cities in the same league - L.A. is simply pathetic, sporting only one superior restaurant - Providence (now that Bastide is closed again). All you can really hope for in L.A. is adequate. Las Vegas just sports clones of restaurants from other places, although for the life of me I don't see how Guy Savoy has 2 stars in Vegas and 3 in Paris, since the food is the same. (Terrific meals in both venues.) Bay Area: French Laundry, Cyrus, Manresa - all excellent, and properly rated, although Coi on a good night can be close. And then there is Chicago, which sports what is unquestionably the best restaurant in America, indeed one of the best in the world - Alinea. Grant Achatz is truly gifted - may he have a long and prosperous life. I want to live at least until I can eat there again! Also, L20 was superb - is it a European restaurant with Japanese influences, or the other way round? Moto is garbage - what can you say when they put Beaujolais on the wine pairing and then insist on calling it "Boojolais." Ugh! By the way, I think that British restaurants are treated even more easily than U.S. restaurants. Gordon Ramsey is the least interesting of all 3 star restaurants that I've eaten in. Marcus Wareing is a disgrace at 2 stars - if Vetri is 1 star, then Wareing hardly deserved a star. Pied a Terre is very good at that level, however; Le Gavroche I thought uneven, but adequate. Then, of course, there is The Fat Duck. While I had one of the most memorable meals in my life the first time I ate at The Fat Duck, the dinner I had there this past December had serious problems in execution, and had far and away the worst wine pairing I have had at a top restaurant, with cheap, poorly chosen wines - a 14.5% heavy, Parkerized, South African fruit bomb with quail??? Also the staff - it is like being served by a bunch of robots. Again, consistency is important at this level of restaurant, especially when the same meal is being turned out twice a day, every day. OK, sorry - I've gone on a bit. Just got going to spewing out my reactions to some meals I've had. I've left out reactions to Parisian restaurants - although still the greatest eating city in the world, somewhat uneven at the top: Yes to L'Astrance, Guy Savoy; iffy to L'Arpege, Pierre Gagnaire. And don't get me going on Senderens . . . Next stop: Barcelona and surrounds. Suggestions solicited and welcomed. (Reservations already in place at Can Roca and Sant Pau.)

I know that Michelin hasn't been to Philadelphia, but I'm going to be. So, if you were the Michelin man, to which restaurants would you give 3-stars? 2?

I'm about to head on over the pond , and if I could ask the indulgence of folks for some quick opinions. I have a reservation at L'Arpege for next week, but after having read what people have said about Eric Frechon, I have become interested in dining at Le Bristol. Unfortunately, I have only one evening, so it is one or the other - any views on priorities between them. Thanks!

I suppose that many of you have now seen that the 2008 version of The World's Best Restaurants has been posted. For those of you who haven't seen it yet, here is the link: http://www.theworlds50best.com/2008_list.html Now needless to say there is much to be debated about this list, both in terms of inclusions and exclusions, as well as overall rank - for sure it is hard to imagine how some of these restaurants can be considered among the best in the world, and equally for sure some restaurants are left off that should be on the list. But given that this is the France forum, I'll take this shot: Having eaten there last week, I am completely mystified how Le Chateaubriand makes the list (ok, 2nd 50), as well as being honored as the breakthrough restaurant of the year. I thought it was, at best, a reasonable neighborhood place; in all honesty, I think I can cook better!

Link is broken.

Need recommendations of places open for dinner on Sunday in Paris. Not 3 star, but a place with substantial culinary aspirations - going with some of younger colleagues who have the palettes but not the wallets!

Second! Just back, and did just that - especially a treat for kids. Only exception is that my suggestion would be for creme de marrons.

My most memorable meal was not at any of the famous temples of gastronomy, but at a restaurant on the harbor in Marseille, Chez Maurice Brun in the winter of 1979. I can never forget this meal because the menu is hanging right next to me on my kitchen wall. I was attending a conference, and a great friend of mine had absolutely insisted that we go to Chez Brun; she too had the menu on her wall. I remember ascending the stairs to the second floor, to a rather austere room with nine or ten tables, with a roaring fire in the fireplace. M. Brun had passed away, but the restaurant was staffed by his widow and son. The meal was completely fixed. It started with a glass of clairette de die with a plate of small hors-d'oeuvre - yes, that's what they called them back then, before they became amuse bouche. Olives, a little anchovie tart, some tapende on bread, but most memorable was a square of jellied olive oil. I can still remember the intensity and purity of that taste. Then the fish, grilled; we had the daurades. And a bottle of cassis. Then artichauts beriguolo, followed by the piece de resistance: A poulets de grain roasted over that fire with a huge lardon, set on fire, melted on the bird as it moved on the spit. Without a doubt the most fabulous bird I have ever eaten, bar none. A bottle of Chateauneuf-du-Pape was the accompaniment. This was followed by salad - another antiquity in the culinary world - cheese and Muscat de Baumes-de-Venise, finishing with classic Provencal deserts - callison, nougat and amandes and fruit. Mind, that each of the wines I mentioned was a whole bottle, aside from the glass of clairette de die to start. (OK, the muscat was only half). When we entered the room, it was all rather hush-hush, everyone having quiet, private conversations. By the time the bird got to our table, my ex and I were deep in to a conversation about Freud's Interpretation of Dreams (she is a psychologist), by the time of desert whatever was left of decorum in the room was gone - everyone else was having loud, animated discussions all around the place. People started getting up and chatting with folks at other tables. I remember well one group. A rather proper French gent, in a blue double-breasted blazer and those weird glasses that only the French used to wear, accompanied by three women; one older, one middle-aged, one younger - the family resemblance was unmistakable. Very proper group. Well somewhere around the callisons they came over and remarked that they had found our conversation about Freud very interesting, and we had a most enjoyable chat with them. At some point after midnight, it was over, and we all started leaving, with great conviviality among Madame and fils and all the diners. A taxi back and some extracurricular activity to match what remains my most memorable meal in France. A meal that was very, very old fashioned, not by any means high gastronomy, but with the soul, warmth and Provencal heart that made the dining transcendent, a once or twice in a lifetime experience. I've certainly eaten "better" food, no doubt made better food myself, but never have I enjoyed a meal more. The restaurant still exists, but from what I can see from its web-site it has little to do food wise with the classic meal of Maurice Brun; it too has passed.

I don't think we disagree here. Michelin categories are supposed to encompass restaurants that diverge, and certainly all are not to be equated - that was my point. And, as we gain experience in the restaurants so-rated, we develop our own evaluations of what qualifies for being in the top echelon of world restaurants. So, as my views have developed I feel that some restaurants are pretenders to the 3-star category that others thing fall within - Gordon Ramsey, for example - and vice versa - Jean-Georges. In the end, what we personally do has nothing to do with ratings, but only with how we want to engage in our culinary pleasures. I want to go to a great restaurant - one that pleases me - in order to enjoy wonderful food, and also to take away inspiration and ideas for my own cooking. After all, for every meal I have at L'Astrance, I have 50 dinners I cook with great enjoyment at home, and I want to bring a little bit of L'Astrance, or The Fat Duck or Jean-Georges to each of those meals.

I think that a large part of the issue underlying this thread is that the Michelin system simply is not fine grained enough. If you ask whether of the restaurants at which I have eaten which I think are deserving of the exalted 3-stars are all of the same quality, the answer is obviously no. But all of them in my experience are a cut above, and so are, as a group, 3-star restaurants, as opposed to the others, which were, as a group, a cut below. So, for instance, at both Per Se and French Laundry there were dishes that were not successful, as opposed to The Fat Duck and L'Astrance, where all the dishes were excellent or better, but yet the overall dining experience at the former two restaurants was significantly better than, say, Gordon Ramsey. (But perhaps my experience at GR got off to a bad start when the maitre d' felt he had to tell me what "tartare" meant when taking my order!) Are The Fat Duck and L'Astrance "better" restaurants than Per Se and The French Laundry? Yes, they are, but not in a way that would be reflected by giving the former 3-stars and the latter 2-stars. So, if we wish to say what restaurants we have been to that met up to the expectations we have when walking in to a Michelin 3-star joint, then all of those I listed in my post above meet this requirement - I had immensely enjoyable, delicious meals at all of them, what I expect from a great place to eat. If we wish to discuss the virtues of any particular restaurant - why, for instance, I have had consistently enjoyable meals that made my palate very happy at Jean-Georges - that is another matter. But regardless we have to acknowledge, I think, that Michelin stars are a very coarse guide to restaurant quality; it is a useful guide as a touchstone of a broad notion of restaurant quality, but ultimately it is each of us that pays the tariff at the end of the meal, and as such we must each decide for ourselves how we rate the quality of the restaurant.

Well, that was a fabulous meal! A really lovely evening of elegant, well-thought, delicious food, well-worth the journey half-way round the world; as per my comment in a previous post, this was certainly a meal I had to come to Paris to eat. My compliments to Barbot and staff a job very well done. Ambiance: A small, pleasant modern room, comfortable if not visually exciting. We ate at one of the two tables on the upstairs balcony, which I liked very much. Service: Lovely. Of the standard one would expect from a restaurant of this caliber, with a little informality and friendliness that added to its charm. To me, close to perfect service. Food: Had the menu surprise with the wine pairings. They did not have a printed copy of the menu, so hard at this point to remember everything we had, but the foie gras tart, a simple plate of mixed Brittany shellfish, and a suburb Bresse chicken stick in my mind. All the flavors in each dish were clear and distinct, and harmonized beautifully, one right after another, straight through to the deserts. No dish failed, or even came close. We were all struck by the light touch, at no point was there something cloying or sweet (in contrast to Senderons). Every dish was simply delicious, a testament to what high-end cooking should be. It certainly passed my test of a great meal: as I walked out the door, I was already thinking of when I could return. Also, I would be remiss if I did not compliment the wine pairings. All excellent wines that perfectly complemented the food, The clear standout, though, was a Domaine Prieure Roch 2001 Vosne-Romnee Les Suchots. Unbelievable nose; one of those wines you just want to keep sniffing. I was generously poured an extra glass of this exceptional wine. A winner!

I read your review of Senderens, and thought about it with some care, reflecting upon my experience there the other day. You obviously have considerable experience with Senderens' cooking, dating back to Lucas Carton days, and can trace the lineage of his cooking to what he is serving today, and so look past the many negatives of the restaurant as it exists today, in terms of food, ambiance, service, and in comparison to other restaurants world wide operating at this price point. (For instance, I've had superior meals at Providence in LA, Jean-Georges in NY and Cyrus in Sonoma of late.) For me, eating at Senderons for the first time, and without your prior experiences, although some dishes were very good, others were significantly flawed, and the noise level, visuals of the room and the mediocre service all detracted from whatever virtues the food did have. These are not factors to be ignored in a restaurant of this level. Moreover, as a rule, when I dine in a restaurant of this nature, I want to be surrounded primarily by people whose minds are on the food, and not (at least primrily) on their extra-curricular activities to follow. While my meal at Gagnaire was a disappointment, I saw much more in the food there than at Senderpns. Perhaps he still provides enough to brighten the culinary memories of those who loved Lucas Carton, but for those of us without such memories, eating at Senderons leave much to be desired.

Based on my dining experiences: Deserving 3 stars: Fat Duck L'Astrance Guy Savoy French Laundry/Per Se Jean-Georges Getting iffy: Pierre Gagnaire (based on my experience of the other day) Defintely not: Gordon Ramsey Le Bernardin Alain Ducasse at Essex House (closed)

Members of my party have developed a hankering for some classic French dishes, in particular, frisee salad with lardons and ouefs en gelee. Can anyone suggest good places to go for those in central Paris?

Does anyone know the current tariff for dinner at L'Astrance? Thanks. Sorry for the typos in the other post.

So tonight it was Senderens, the reincarnated Lucas Carton. More straight-up French, sort of, since even here some Asian influences crept in. Certainly this is not a restaurant in the top echelon, and even among the 2-star places it is not as good as that fallen angel Taillevent. The meal on the whole was OK, though, but nothing really memorable, at least not for me - see below. Ambiance: The room was weird. Art Nouveau overlayed with Vegas. What's with the light-up tables, and the glass things with the changing lights? And those odd things hanging from the ceilings? All the hustle and bustle of the place made me feel nervous, not relaxed at all. Felt like getting up and telling everyone to slow down. Service: Felt like I was eating in an understaffed restaurant. Waiters were OK, but far from top notch. B, maybe B-, given the pedigree of the place. Food: The starters were a poached duck liver that tasted like ankimo at a good sushi bar, which was kind of interesting; scallops with ginger and lemon that were OK, but a pretty ordinary preparation and too sweet, and tempura crawfish which were well done, but came with a rather unpleasant sicky sweet dipping sauce! The mains were lobster with vanilla sauce - not very original but quite well done, the best dish of the meal - suckling pig, which was, well suckling pig, and lamb with rather tasty coriander flavored eggplants. The fourme d'ambert with brioche was very nice, but deserts were rather lackluster. My overall assessment of this meal was that if I was 25 and this was my first time in Paris and this was my splurge meal, it would probably have been a meal that would have ended up as a fond memory. But I'm not, it isn't and it wasn't, so all it left me with was the thought that I'm sorry I missed Lucas Carton in its heyday; perhaps that would have been a memorable meal. Tomorrow L'Astrance. Please, god of food, make that one memorable!!

I too admire Gagnaire, and my meal there last year was memorable, in large part because of the culinary imagination it displayed. That was why it was all the more disappointing; at his status, and given the price, we have a right to expect that all dishes have been vetted and that the meal shows significant consistency from dish to dish. I know that Blumenthal comes in for criticism for varying his menu very little if at all, but the advantage is a meal that is consistent from start to finish.