OMDave

Hey Andrew, That must be where the confusion lay. I didn't mean any blogger in particular. I have lived all over Canada and tend to think of websites/blogs from other provinces as well as from the States.

Some very good information posted, thanks everyone. Some response.... Barolo: I just sent off an email to our editors with your suggestions. I think a little disclaimer at the start of reviews definately couldn't hurt. Andrew M: You'll gain a lot of credibility if your business immediately divorces itself from the reviewing process. Again, hire someone, pay them, and stay out of their way. Print what comes in, both the good and the bad. You might piss a few people off by being on the level, but that is the risk you take when you review anything. We currently do have writers on staff for our reviews. Although many of them are not on the professional level as yourself and some other food reviewers, we would like to give them the opportunity to grow and develop their skills rather than hiring someone to replace them. I agree that Open Mouth as a business should stay out of their way but my original question stemmed from the writers wanting to have some direction as to our magazines "guidelines" on reviews. Hence my question to eGullet, as we didn't actually have any set guidelines. From your response I understand you think we should keep it that way and I fully agree except in some extreme circumstances. "According to your website, you're in charge of Business Development. Ask yourself if your personal thoughts should come into the equation at all, and then weigh your answer against its relevance. If you're concerned about the hurt feelings of restaurateurs, tell your writers not to be." Business development is probably the most ambiguous title on the face of the planet. Needless to say, any questions and/or responses to my posts will be read or forwarded to the editorial and design staff. We have already started to make some changes based on the feedback you and other eGullet members have provided. Keep them coming! "As it stands right now, just about every restaurant "blogger/reviewer" out there is doing a better job than Open Mouth with 1/100th of the budget, zero advertising, and no agenda, so I don't really think you're in a position to discount "just another" anything, David. Also, none of them are what I'd describe as particularly negative." I hope we can change your opinion of us over time. As for negative bloggers, I think you may have overlooked some. There are more than a few blogs and websites out there who rely on negative and sarcastic writing to draw readership. I don't even particularly think there is anything wrong with many of those sites but I wanted to explain that we don't intend to be anything like them. "Right now, it sounds like you are micromanaging editorial content. If you don't allow your writers the kind of independence of thought that translates to the page you'll stick dead and irrelevant to the industry and about as worthwhile a resource to the public as a puddle of pee. Also, look at what is working for other publications, both online and off (presumption is the mother of many things, but seldom success). You've got great potential, but if you want to make an impact on the dining scene in Vancouver within any reading demographic I think the only viable way to do so is through strength of editorial. In other words, I'd tell your editor and publisher to step away from the vehicle a little and let the writers do their own thing without having to toe a policy line of that uses "positive" and "negative" as goal posts." Thank you for some very good advice. Lauraf: "Put the readers' interest first - the advertising will follow." Again, thank you for the very good advice. fud: "Maybe reviews really ought to post the day of the week and time the review took place. This would give readers an idea of what a "tuesday night at 6" might be like over a friday night at 8. I always read rave reviews of places as well as "how busy" they are but man, if you go a 5pm on a tuesday I'm pretty sure it won't be packed and the chef(s) might even have more time to really give your dishes some good lovin. Of course this means you're eating at 5pm which for me is just past lunch on some days biggrin.gif" Very cool idea. Maybe we could place the time and day at the top of every review in the title area? I know many reviewers mention the time they went but I haven't seen it done at the very top, and every time.... Thanks for the idea fud, I'll pass that on. ----- Thanks as well to everyone else who posted and to whomever sent me the email about the dead link on our website. As I mentioned in the other thread, if anyone ever has any questions, advice, hate mail, or would like to help us out with some writing please don't hesitate to email. Thanks again,

Thank you to everyone who has posted so far. I'm very appreciative and am going to try to respond to a few things... eatvancouver(Jason): I agree that accuracy is the first priority. But as nwyles brought up, accuracy is a difficult thing to achieve, especially if the reviewer is only dining at a restaurant for the one and only time. We will do our best though. nwyles: You also brought up a good point about how the reviewer actually dines at the restaurant. Luckily we are small enough that our writers are not well know (yet?), and could easily walk into most establishments without fear of being treated differently. Our policy is to pay for the meal first, and only then drop a business card or ask for the name of the chef for future correspondence. I would love to have our writers dine out at restaurants two or three times before writing a review but we simply do not have the budget for that. (yet?) You said, "If you do not have the budget to visit a place a couple of times, then perhaps you should become a fashion mag or something other than a food magazine. If restaurants and food is going to be your stock in trade, make sure you have the $$$$ to do it properly without selling your soul for food for positive reveiws." I understand what you are saying, but being the stubborn group of people that we are, we are still going to try our best with what we have. (Hopefully without selling our soul) Daddy-A: I think you have the best piece of advice; we really are "damned if we do, damned if we don't". transfattyacid: I don't think we are going to ever get into a comparable scoring system. We are not going to be doing enough reviews to justify that system and I still feel it unfair in the "who are we to say how many stars a restaurant deserves" mentality. From this discussion I am starting to lean in the direction of writing about what was most memorable, good or bad, and making sure to explain why. barolo: Hello again! Thanks for responding. When you said, "I'd also encourage you to be transparent about how the reviews are done. " were you recommending we actually write out our policy in the magazine before each review? I think that idea has potential but just wanted to clarify that is what you meant. Does any other publication do that? One question this all brings to mind: As there are always good restaurants to write honest and positive reviews about, is publishing a generaly negative review, even if the restaurant deserves it, simply a way to attract readership?

Hello everyone, As some of you may already know, I'm working with Open Mouth, a new monthly food-culture magazine in Vancouver. (We were rather destroyed in a previous thread) We are very new and admittedly have a lot to learn about this industry. My specific question involves restaurant reviews. As a start-up we wanted to stay positive and chose to give only positive reviews for the first couple of issues. (Say something nice or don't say anything at all mentality) Accordingly, we have received quite a bit of negative response; many people feel that we are too timid or biased in our reviews. (The three we have done) Anyways, we are slowly finding our voice and comfort zone and are starting to ask, "should we do negative reviews?" Is this a good idea? My personal thoughts have always been that with the time and effort restaurants put into making their establishment successful, it would be very hard to accept a negative review as anything but a direct personal insult and attack to their livelihood. How do we maintain readership interest without being just another negative blogger/reviewer that is looking for "hits"? Please let me know your thoughts. I would also appreciate any general recommendations and/or comments you may have. Having thick skin, I will take everything as constructive criticism!

Hello annanstee and barolo, thanks for your posts and recomendations. As I mentioned before, we are always open to feedback and assistance. Please keep sending them my way! I just attended our final press check so the November issue will be printed this weekend and distributed to locations starting Monday. Please let me know what you think, Dave dave@openmouth.ca

Thank you Feedbag and LuaraF for your responses, We have just finalized our November issue but some changes will definately be made for December's issue in regards to the listings and their relationship to advertisers. Also, we will be trying to put more solid content into Open Mouth but the learning process is difficult. Just know that we are trying! I appreciate your thoughts and feedback. Thanks again, Dave@openmouth.ca

Hello, It is always hard to hear negative things but I will try to regard everything as constructive critiscism. I work with Open Mouth. We are all trying really hard to make it an entertaining and succesful magazine but this is new territory for all of us. I can see that many of you work, or have worked, for EAT and other food publications. I understand your hostility, although I don't think it warranted. We are not trying to be another EAT, or Cityfood for that matter. Open Mouth is focusing on the younger generation that spends a lot of money on food and dining but isn't completely represented in the food/dining media. I know much of what is in our pages may seem amatuer and young to many of you, but that is kind of the point. Everyone at Open Mouth IS a foodie, but we are all just beginning to develop our skills and hope to get better on a monthly basis. I do have three things which I will respond to: 1)Style Councillor. You said "Our food culture magazine"? Picked up the premiere edition at Urban Fare the other day. Do we really need another local food magazine? Doesn't EAT do the best job? Many of the restaurants and other advertisers are likely stretched enough for advertising dollars, I can't understand how someone thought it would be a good idea to start this? Why not just another online magazine or blog? Have they no idea about printing costs, distribution etc? In the editorial, they say that "...is an independent publication and intend to stay that way" like EAT or cityfood is not?! Do they imagine that they cater to their advertisers? And AND, their first reveiw is for the reef?! I'm just gobsmacked. True I only scanned the articles, because there was absolutely nothing that was interesting, 3 photos and some illustrations - and this from "a group of writers, photographers and artists that love food and events surrounding it" puhleeze. Looking forward to hearing your input. I am shocked at how MUCH you dislike our magazine. We have made mistakes and we will make more in the future. You feel that there is no place for another food magazine in this city, and that really surprises me. I of course dissagree but will not go into detail as to why. I think many foodies out there will be happy to have Open Mouth, if only as a change of pace from more mature and developed magazines. 2)Ethics. Many of you have claimed that we esentialy don't have ethics and have sold out editorial for advertising. It is so hard to read that when we have tried so hard to do the exact opposite. As we only did one review I assume you are all referring to our listings and classifieds, and how some of them match our advertisers. There is absolutely a relationship there but we have never regarded those sections as editorial. If you all believe that this is a comprimize of our integrity than I will definately look at changing our policy. It is just so frustrating as we have tried so hard not to generate revenue/readers as many blogs, forums, and magazines have. We haven't been negative for shock value, we haven't sold any editorial, (I don't know how to prove that. If any of you know the owners of the restaurants you think bought editorial, please ask them.) and we haven't just put a whack of reviews in for tourist readership. And Finally, 3)Our chances of success. For many of you this has already been decided apparantly. I hope, for the sake of all the people working and volunteering with Open Mouth, that you are not correct. In the same way that we do not rip into restaurants for shock readership, (we know how much work and love goes into restaurant startups) please remember before you blast us that we are doing our best, and could really use help, rather than negative critiscism. Finally, if anyone would like to help us in any way please give me an email at any time. We could especially use some experienced foodie writers, and then you would have no excuse to tell us our content is "annorexic"! Thanks very much and I hope we can make a better impression in future issues! Dave dave@openmouth.ca