thirtyoneknots

Seems like rum might be a good choice to base Kola bitters on, given the natural affinity the flavors have for each other. Maybe an aged rum with a bit of funk and a higher proof than 80...Pussers maybe?

Well, I was making two drinks, so it would have been about a half teaspoon for 3 dashes per drink. I do take your point, however about Absinthe in bitters bottles. Keep meaning to fill one with Absinthe the next time I finish a bottle of bitters. I do also really Verte de Fougerolles is a bit more touchy to mix with than Kubler or Lucid. Still, I found the cocktail perfectly acceptable and enjoyable. It was just the Mrs. and the house guests who weren't so fond of it. ← I haven't had the VdF or Kubler, but I do my at-home mixing with Jade Edouard, which people say is fairly potent, flavor-wise. I like Absinthe, so adding too much doesn't bother me but yeah I'm kind of glad that the Lucid we have at work is more mild/forgiving.

Or it could be that 1 tsp is far too large a quantity for 3 dashes. I know we've had the dash discussion before, but I think that at the very least Absinthe, with it's powerful flavor and lingering presence, should be measured like bitters, preferably in an emptied bitters bottle, dashed in the same way (for me this means 8 dashes = 1 tsp, more or less). So maybe a scant 1/2 tsp would have been better.

I like this drink, although I wouldn't put it on my list of favorites and I can understand why it divides people...large quantities of oj mixed with gin can sometimes highlight the peculiar qualities that non gin lovers find objectionable. OJ and anise is also, I think, something that is going to taste odd to a novice palate. Odd flavors are a funny thing, people either really like them or really don't care for them. I think the Monkey Gland is a good example of this.

Interesting about the amaretto, I had really always heard that 'genuine' amaretto was apricot kernels, and that almond was something they used because of their being cheaper or something. I suppose what you say makes sense. Katie, how long are you infusing the dried chiles? When I do black pepper infusions 12 hours is really too long, it has to be cut with uninfused spirit. Makes for a multilayered bloody mary though.

I have for a long time been under the impression that Amaretto is supposed to be an apricot pit liqueur, not an almond one (although they are related, no?) Wouldn't not having almonds be a bonus in that case? I've never had the Luxardo Amaretto (not something I normally stock) but I was just curious. That's very odd.

I've got a batch of Regent's Punch in the fridge for tonight, I'll let you know how it goes.

Had a friend over to keep me company while I worked on some projects and we tried a few things with a couple of goodies I got in mail order today; Improved Gin Cocktail with Genevieve was so nice and funky and so different than I anticipated. Meeting House Punch scaled down drastically from the recipe on the Tales of the Cocktails Page was fascinating, positively reeks of Colonial America. One or two other items that were tasty but of more minor interest but the real story for me was the very scaled down version of Fish House Punch, adapted by me from the recipe in Imbibe! using my newly-got bottle of Marie Brizzard Peach Brandy: 2 oz Cognac (scant), I used Martell VS 1 oz Dark Rum (generous), I used Pusser's 1 tsp Marie Brizzard Peach Brandy 1 oz lemon 1 oz Rich Demerara Syrup 1 oz water Fill glass with crushed ice, shake, and pour back into glass. Having tried this method previously with Apry, I can now vouch that there is no substitute for the 'real' thing. The tsp of Peach liqueur permates so brilliantly and elegantly, I wonder so much how it would have tasted with the old-school aged peach eau-de-vie. I think I want to try the above with 1.5 oz brandy, .75 oz of rum, and .75 oz of Laird's bonded, just to see how a (presuambly) similar item performs. I can't wait to have the occasion to make a full-on batch of Fish House Punch, it is delicious beyond belief. All winners, if the other two recipes for bowls of punch in Imbibe! are even half as delicious as this, then they are formidable indeed. I think Punch is my new project.

It does indeed, thank you, I think I'll try it out with the Gruet. Since Arrack is sadly not available here, I am going to test it once without, to see how it does for work purposes. I might toss a jigger or so in ofter tasting it though, I can only imagine how delicious it would be in that context. Hopefully I can do it just this once without being kicked out of the club Many thanks for the pointers. -Andy

Boy that's an odd one, no doubt.

I think when you look at the classical context, the presence or absence of ice in the serving glass correlates with how fast the drinker is expected to consume the beverage; ice is left in the glass for a slow, sipper, it is strained out for a quick bracer. On some level this might could be construed that at least for cocktails/aperitifs, the ideal method is to serve them 'up', at least as far as the mindset of Titans of old goes. I serve very few cocktails on the rocks as a matter of course, only those that could be considered canonically served that way (Old-Fashioned, etc), which I think is mostly for drinks that will sort of evolve in some interesting/pleasing way as the ice melts. For my own taste, the Negroni does not fit this category but to each his own of course. For most cocktails, I prefer to make them very small (2-2.5 oz pre-shake/stir) and finish them quickly. Now crushed ice is another matter entirely and I actually think that crushed ice when used properly is a brilliant method. I think it works best for single serving punches that are strongly alchoholic and often very sweet-looking on paper. The crushed ice makes them dilute enough and cold enough at a single stroke to be enjoyable. There are some drinks that should only be served on crushed ice. Most others should never be served that way. Very few, imo, can go either way. But of course, as always, drink it how you like it. These are opinions, nothing more. -Andy

So since the Regent's Punch came up I thought I might ask a few questions since I was thinking about making a batch this Friday for a little get-together we're having. I had seen this recipe quoted here before but couldn't remember on what thread so I had been working off the one from Killer Cocktails, which differs only in a few minor details. So I was wondering about the following points of the recipe and would appreciate any pointers from Mr. Kinsey, Mr. Wondrich, or anyone else who has made this. How clutch is the inclusion of seville oranges? I was going to just use all Valencias but is it still worth proceeding this way? I've never had a seville but my image of them suggests they would supply some additional acid and bitterness from the peel. Could this be compensated for by adding more lemon and/or a spoon of orange bitters, or is it even necessary? The KC recipe calls for Wray & Nephew Rum in place of the then-unavailable Batavia Arrack. In such a small quantity is there a marked difference? I have some Arrack brought back by a travelling friend, but of course not knowing when I could get more I'd prefer to use the readily available WNOP. If it makes a significant difference to the end result I'll use the Arrack though of course, why have it if you're not going to use it? How much champagne (or sparkling wine in my case) do you recommend? The recipe above suggests 1-2 bottles, which would be 2-4 bottles in the larger KC recipe. Is more really more here, or is just 'sportier'? I would assume that more wine would help dry out what appears to be a slightly sweet recipe (although I imagine punch in a bowl needs to be sweeter than individual drinks). Any thoughts on quantity here, and while we're at I assume inexpensive Spanish Cava or French Cremant will do fine here as it normally does for my purposes, any that you would avoid or will Cristalino suffice? Thanks in advance, this is only my second or third attempt at large-bowl punch making, and I definitely want to minimize the trial and error with the expense involved. -Andy

Kent, be sure to let us know how this went!

What is advocatenborrel? And while we're on the topic, does anybody here drink/know about advocaat? What are some good brands? What are brands to avoid? What is it's shelf-life? Is it even worth having around? I almost picked some up in Houston last weekend but decided against it. I've never really heard of it being used in cocktails aside from a notable exception of a recipe in Imbibe (the magazine) some time ago where it was used in place of egg in an interpretation of a flip. Wouldn't be the first time I bought a whole bottle of something just for one cocktail. -Andy ← ← Thanks for the info. How does the Bols Advocaat available in the US compare in the quality spectrum? Is there any imported brand that you would recommend instead (or is that in fact imported)?

What is advocatenborrel? And while we're on the topic, does anybody here drink/know about advocaat? What are some good brands? What are brands to avoid? What is it's shelf-life? Is it even worth having around? I almost picked some up in Houston last weekend but decided against it. I've never really heard of it being used in cocktails aside from a notable exception of a recipe in Imbibe (the magazine) some time ago where it was used in place of egg in an interpretation of a flip. Wouldn't be the first time I bought a whole bottle of something just for one cocktail. -Andy

I have never heard of this origin before although I confess to being no expert on egg liqueurs. Wikipedia backs up the avocado origin but offers no citations and only a couple of references I've never heard of. The folks on the discussion page for the entry seem to think it's bull though. All I can say is that it sounds highly unlikely at best. Occam's Razor would definitely favor Europeans developing a stable eggnog derivative to bottle on their own hook over adapting something made from avocados from half a world away. Also recall that the native populations of the New World had no distillation technology, another strike against that origin. Of course I'm more than willing to be proven wrong, as I said, I don't actually know. Would be weird as all get-out though. -Andy

I'd be happy to take it off your hands ← Yeah I like the stuff but now I have some Blume Marillen that a friend brought back from nyc, and I haven't yet found the place where BP works better than that stuff--it's delicious but just so rough around the edges. Any suggestions for other uses? The Culross is actually on my shortlist of faves from the Savoy topic, but if you're making it with Barack Palinka, it needs to be drank cold.

Lazy Sunday today and this evening I got to thinking about Jerry Thomas' punch formula and some derelict bottles I had sitting around and when the thinking was done I made this, inspired by his formula as tought to me via Imbibe!--and I'm not ashamed of it. Apricot Punch (Jerry Thomas Style) [uSE LARGE BAR-GLASS] 1/2 oz Apry juice of half a largeish lemon (3/4 oz) 2 oz Barack Palinka (or Blume Marillen if you roll that way) 1 oz gin or funky white rum (I used Steinhager I'm trying to get rid of) 1 oz St. Germaine 1 oz water fill with crushed ice and shake, then pour back into glass. If you've got fruits, esp pineapple of fresh peaches or apricots it would be a tasty garnish, or shake it with the drink. I had no fruits and no garnish and it was still tasty. The sweetness could probably be dialled down very slightly but it's not appreciably sweeter than any of the punch recipes in Imbibe!. Worth a try, and now I have a way to use up my Barack Palinka. ETA: If you want a more tart version, just use a whole lemon...The floral funk balance is too nice to mess with the liqueur quantities.

The Doctor Cocktail is a fine showcase for Punsch: 1.5 oz Amber rum (Appleton V/X particularly fine here imo) .75 Punsch .75 lime shake/strain/up I find that basing liqueurs or infusions off of Demerara rum can cause them to clash a tad with other spirits, so distinctive is it's character, but the earlier version I made with Mt. Gay is delicious here.

Around here it wasn't so long ago you could get it for half of what it costs now, c. 2005 or so, maybe even in 06, you could get it for around $13/btl.

As called for in the original recipe it is a dry distillate of peaches that has been barrel-aged, sort of a peach applejack if you will. Nowadays, as per Imbibe! folks make do with the Peach Brandy liqueur, using 1 oz of it for every 4 oz called for in the original recipe, and adjusting the brandy and rum upwards to fill the void. Supposedly there are some rumblings in the dry aged peach brandy end of things regarding new production, but as of now it is a product not produced anywhere in the world and is thus completely unavailable unless you can find an old bottle--elsewhere on egullet Mr. Wondrich has noted it was last produced in the 1940s.

The D&Co website lists as cognac, rum (light?), peach brandy, lemon and soda. Could I swap the cognac for more rum, and the peach brandy for Marie Brizard apry? ← I would imagine the substitution of Apry wouldn't be terribly offensive but the rum should be of a dark Jamaican or Demerara (ie, English) style for maximum authenticity and flavor, and I donno about nixing the Cognac, it goes so pretty with the rum. Imbibe! suggests: 1 pint lemon 1 lb Demerara sugar 3 oz Peach Brandy 27 oz Cognac 18 oz Rum 3 qts water to serve every 12-15 people As you can see, the brandy is intended to be the dominant liquor here, but I have seen (and bought, and drank, and enjoyed) the Hardy VS Cognac for about $40/1.75L at the Spec's on Smith St. in Houston. Might be an option? Of course there are other recipes, some even with rye or gin, but many of the old ones use cognac. -Andy

Mr. Kinsey raises a good point; unless you've got a restaraunt-style dishwashing setup you're going to have to have at least 500 clean glasses at the get-go. But I assume you knew that already.

Oh yeah, and you're going to need an ungodly amount of ice (of course) and hopefully you've got a large shaker that can hold multiple drinks at once. What might turn a potential nightmare in the weeds into something more manageable is pre-dilute the drinks while batching, and keep them in metal or glass containers on ice. That way you can just keep a ton of chilled glasses out and just pour the drinks. 125 people doing wine, beer, and highballs would be a sufficient challenge for one person, if you're wanting to do real cocktails as well I think the advice to have a barback is sound. Or, again, you can do the smart and easy thing and make punch. The possibilities for shwoing people new flavors is as good if not better, since it's rare nowadays to have the chance to make a huge batch of punch and be able to finish it. You could make as many different ones as you can obtain punchbowls. Small punch cups restricts the flow of booze, and everybody behaves more that night and feels better the next day. That's probably what I'd do.

I would imagine you're going to have a lot of requests for Margaritas, Cosmopolitans, Mojitos, and simple highball-type things so you may want to consider accomodating at least part of that crowd (or of course offer beer). Expecting people to nurse 3 cocktails over the period of hours that a party lasts may be a stretch, especially if they are friendly and delicious. The bad cases here are either people running out of drink and leaving early, or getting wastey-faced and passing out (or worse) all over the place. If I was planning something along these lines I might scaled it back to 4 batched drinks, say the 3 features you have there plus a Margarita (Sauza's bottom end is something I wouldn't be ashamed to pour at a large party) and be set up with tonic water, coke, cheap bourbon or blended whiskey, maybe rum, etc for the highball crowd. Of course this is sort of from the perspective of if you were just catering and wanted to maximize profit/make some tips. If your goal is to show off your cocktail skills and get people to try new things then of course disregard 3/4 of the above and here are a few suggestions to round out your menu: Oriental (double the rye and vermouth from the Savoy version) Twentieth Century Move Over Aviation Silver Lining Bitter Elder (add another 1/4 oz of St. Germain to the Elder Sour while subbing 1/2 oz Campari for the same volume of gin, even more grapefruity than the Jasmine) Corpse Reviver McKinley's Delight (maybe in lieu of Manhattan) One last word about citrus; if you can get it that has been juiced that day it may or may not work, but if it's any older than 12ish hours I'd go ahead and juice my own. It's a pain in the ass, but hey that's why they're flying you from Texas Or you could go the smart and easy route and make some bowls of punch. Not sure if your friends would consider that cheating though, but at least you'd get to enjoy the party more. Hope this helps. -Andy Edit: clarity