LPShanet

You can't go wrong with Jose Andres's Jaleo! If you wanna hop the Metro to Bethesda, I rather like Red Tomato If you want a nice change from the standard, I've had some good times at Tony Chang's Mongolian Restaurant (don't have a link) Now, if you want to hop the Red Line on the Metro to Wheaton, we have The Royal Mile Pub for good English, Irish and Scottish, and Dusit for Thai, and Los Chorros for Salvadoran. Sincerely, Dante ← Thanks for the reply. Jaleo is a good consideration. Do you prefer it to Minibar? As for the other stuff, I think I made it pretty clear that the people DON'T want to hop the metro to Bethesda or any other place...thus the subtitle of the posting. Also, Thai and Salvadorean don't exactly fit the bill either, as non-spicy was specified. I'm looking for the BEST (meaning top/high end/serious) restaurants...not good local dives with value grub. Anyone else?

Looking for a recommendation for a family member visting from NY, who wants to take two friends to a really nice dinner. They'll be a group of three looking for a great place within reasonable cab ride distance of the Convention Center. They're not big fans of spicy food or anything too divey. I think they'd probably also appreciate a civilized experience and moderate noise level. Thanks! Important note: They are going on a Monday, so please only provide places that are open on Mondays. Thanks.

I'm going to play devil's advocate, and say that even though I agree with most of your points factually, I think you could argue that Milk and Honey is pretty important for someone who is being educated on this "cocktail renaissance" to see. While it's certainly tough for some to get in due to the number thing, and it's also true that they have rules, most of the rules are such that equivalent behavior wouldn't be approved of in any civilized cocktail bar. Examples include "no fighting, no talking about fighting". Or "please exit the bar quietly". If you can't handle these things, you don't belong at a civilized public drinking establishment. Most of M&H's rules are of this type. I can't think of a good cocktail destination that encourages fighting, and most frat boy types aren't going to want a sophisticated cocktail education. On the other hand, Milk & Honey does provide quite an insight into the thinking, tone, and origins of the cocktail revolution going on, and some of the historical references/background. The atmosphere is fun and a bit secretive, which only adds to a first-timer's experience and enjoyment. Everyone remembers their first time there. M&H's style and policies are at least partly responsible for the current craze so I think it's a mistake to omit them from any such list.

If I remember correctly (someone please correct me if I'm remembering wrong), Kanoyama is actually not all that different from the previous incarnations that were in this space. When it was Iso, it was also a better than average place. The owners sold, but the sushi chef(s) remained. I'm not sure whether all the guys behind the counter stayed, but I'm pretty sure the principal itamae did. In fact, he may have been the one who bought it from the owners. I haven't eaten there since the name change, but always found it to be very solid and, as stated above, better than the average sushi ya. However, if you're a sushi purist, it was never nearly in the league of Ushi, which has some really amazing stuff, and definitely gives Yasuda a run for its money in many areas.

Thanks for the suggestions. They were along the same lines as what I had suggested. Great minds...

Looking to make a recommendation to a friend for a casual place where you can get a good steak. They are not into going to a steakhouse, both due to atmosphere and price. So we're looking for the kind of place that serves a good everyday steak on the menu, such as a French bistro or the like. Any thoughts on the best "sleeper" steaks around? Preferably somewhere downtown or anywhere east side below 42nd.

Anyone notice that the lunch prix fixe is considerably more expensive than dinner (which is atypical) and that they recommend reserving a longer window to eat? Anyone have thoughts or info on how they're planning to do lunch and what will be different?

I heard about this and did a little independent research. Turns out it's a multifaceted problem, some of which has to do with deception and some of which has to do with translation problems and other random factors. As Doc suggested, it turns out to be even more insidious in places that serve cooked fish, with tilapia being passed off as all sorts of other things. High end sushi places are only occasional offenders, and in most cases, the differences are due to translation rather than substitution. I'll do a bit by bit analysis as best I can below. In terms of "white tuna", the discussion is pointless, as there is really no such thing. Some people refer to albacore as white tuna (in Japanese, I'm pretty sure it's the closest thing, as it's sometimes called shiro magura, which means white tuna), and others use the term to refer to escolar, while still others use it to mean various other fish, but since there is no actual white tuna, it can't lead to a real discussion. In terms of the roe (flying fish vs. smelt), restaurants have been making this error for years, even when the two cost the same. In fact, many sushi restaurants carry both (tobiko and masago). For the record, the flying fish roe (tobiko) are the slightly larger of the two, and have a slightly firmer bite. They're also a bit less sweet than the smaller masago. Part of the problem is that saying flying fish roe sounds sexier and more interesting to English speaking customers, even though most of them unknowingly prefer the taste of the smelt roe. As it turns out, many restaurant owners don't know the proper translations and often swap names or call the one they carry by the other name. Personally, I don't think there's any pernicious swapping going on here...it's mostly a case of confusion in translation. The snapper issue is much more complicated. There are two things happening here. At the lower end, many poor sushi places are, in fact, substituting other things for snapper. This turns out to be even more prevalent in non-sushi places, where almost no actual snapper is found. In these lesser places, a much less expensive fish is usually substituted (often tilapia, which is a good fish impersonator, as it has very little distinctive flavor and can easily slip by most untrained palates). In the sushi world, this is most common in non-Japanese owned restaurants. It also turns out that in many cases, the restaurateurs aren't to blame. In investigation showed that they ordered snapper, and unscrupulous delivery places were delivering other things. In some cases, they were mismarking the fish they delivered, but more often they simply filled the snapper order with cases of tilapia that were marked as such but went unnoticed by the restaurants. However, in higher end Japanese sushi places, there were also snapper substitutions for an entirely different reason...the reason of translation. The various Japanese terms that refer to what we think of as snapper (usually tai, madai, kinmedai, etc.) actually refer to various types of bream. Specifically, the sushi known as tai has long been translated as red snapper, but in Japan is actually a form of red bream. True red snapper is very rarely eaten as sushi (even in Japan), and the term tai has actually referred to the red bream for years, without most American people realizing it's inaccurately used for snapper. Furthermore, red bream costs just about the same as red snapper, so there's no advantage in pulling a switch. The bream also has superior flavor in most sushi chefs' minds. The other (non-red) snappers are actually more likely to be blackeye breams and other related species, again due to translation issues and not deception. On a related note, I was a bit surprised to see the whole furor attributed to those two high school kids in New York. My understanding was that their "study" was really just a school project knockoff of the similar study that the Chicago Tribune did a little while ago, for a story about the same. In the Chicago article, it was clear from the names of the restaurant owners that most were not Japanese. ← Outstanding post! Thanks for the insights and extra detail. ← Thanks! Glad to help.

I heard about this and did a little independent research. Turns out it's a multifaceted problem, some of which has to do with deception and some of which has to do with translation problems and other random factors. As Doc suggested, it turns out to be even more insidious in places that serve cooked fish, with tilapia being passed off as all sorts of other things. High end sushi places are only occasional offenders, and in most cases, the differences are due to translation rather than substitution. I'll do a bit by bit analysis as best I can below. In terms of "white tuna", the discussion is pointless, as there is really no such thing. Some people refer to albacore as white tuna (in Japanese, I'm pretty sure it's the closest thing, as it's sometimes called shiro maguro, which means white tuna), and others use the term to refer to escolar, while still others use it to mean various other fish, but since there is no actual white tuna, it can't lead to a real discussion. In terms of the roe (flying fish vs. smelt), restaurants have been making this error for years, even when the two cost the same. In fact, many sushi restaurants carry both (tobiko and masago). For the record, the flying fish roe (tobiko) are the slightly larger of the two, and have a slightly firmer bite. They're also a bit less sweet than the smaller masago. Part of the problem is that saying flying fish roe sounds sexier and more interesting to English speaking customers, even though most of them unknowingly prefer the taste of the smelt roe. As it turns out, many restaurant owners don't know the proper translations and often swap names or call the one they carry by the other name. Personally, I don't think there's any pernicious swapping going on here...it's mostly a case of confusion in translation. The snapper issue is much more complicated. There are two things happening here. At the lower end, many poor sushi places are, in fact, substituting other things for snapper. This turns out to be even more prevalent in non-sushi places, where almost no actual snapper is found. In these lesser places, a much less expensive fish is usually substituted (often tilapia, which is a good fish impersonator, as it has very little distinctive flavor and can easily slip by most untrained palates). In the sushi world, this is most common in non-Japanese owned restaurants. It also turns out that in many cases, the restaurateurs aren't to blame. An investigation in Chicago showed that many ordered snapper, and unscrupulous delivery places/suppliers were delivering other things. In some cases, they were mismarking the fish they delivered, but more often they simply filled the snapper order with cases of tilapia that were marked as such but went unnoticed by the restaurants. However, in higher end Japanese sushi places, there were also snapper substitutions for an entirely different reason...the reason of translation. The various Japanese terms that refer to what we think of as snapper (usually tai, madai, kinmedai, etc.) actually refer to various types of bream. Specifically, the sushi known as tai has long been translated as red snapper, but in Japan is actually a form of red bream. True red snapper is very rarely eaten as sushi (even in Japan), and the term tai has actually referred to the red bream for years, without most American people realizing it's inaccurately translated as snapper. Furthermore, red bream costs just about the same as red snapper, so there's no advantage in pulling a switch. The bream also has superior flavor in most sushi chefs' minds. The other (non-red) snappers are actually more likely to be blackeye breams and other related species, again due to translation issues and not deception. On a related note, I was a bit surprised to see the whole furor attributed to those two high school kids in New York. My understanding was that their "study" was really just a school project knockoff of the similar study that the Chicago Tribune did a little while ago, for a story about the same. In the Chicago article, it was clear from the names of the restaurant owners that most were not Japanese.

I hate to be such a bandwagon jumper, but have to agree that since the closing of Honmura An, I find most of the soba joints fairly level. I tend to choose Soba Ya because of the combination of location, mellow atmosphere, and solid food. I have yet to try Matsu Gen, but early reports seem to confirm my pre-visitation guesses: very good quality soba, but with a somewhat inflated overall menu price point (presumably a result of the trendy aspect lent by JG). Also, the concessions to mainstream America, such as including sushi on a Sobaya menu, may disturb purists.

Pongsri Thailand Restaurant (corner of Baxter and Bayard). About as authentic as you can get for Thai in Manhattan.

I think the last few posts actually hinted at why I excluded Chinatown, Koreatown, etc. from my original post. Once you go down that road, the options become so numerous that they become harder to keep track of and discuss, and easier to argue about in terms of relative quality. I love Noodletown, Kum Gang San and their respective ilks, but didn't want to turn this into a whole argument over which of 30 similar places for bul gogi is actually better, as there are other threads for that. Also, I think among the readers of these boards, it's assumed that you can find MANY things open late in Chinatown and the like. The purpose of the thread was to explore those places that maybe some didn't realize were open at those hours, and selfishly to find more clarity about which ones really honor their stated hours.

Aburiya Kinnosuke Yakitori Totto Riki/Donburiya/Sakagura Typhoon A lot of Japanese places that serve very good food also happen to be open quite late... Tsukushi and Seki are also 2 very good ones ← Great additions, Raji. Can you post the hours?

This is key. There are a lot of places that SAY they're open till, say, 1. But you often get there at 12:30 and find they're already sweeping up and saying the kitchen is closed. It's a problem that restaurants don't distinguish, when listing their hours, between "closing time" as in the time they hope everybody'll be done by or as in the time the kitchen closes. And that restaurants with purportedly late closing times will start to close earlier if the night manager doesn't think they're busy enough. ← This is an excellent point, and a MAJOR beef of mine. I can't count the number of times I've been to places and found them completely shut down well ahead of their stated hours. If they're going to list hours, I feel like they have an obligation to keep them, and not hedge when the night seems slow. If they're going to do that, they should at least let it be known that's their policy, so we can call and check somehow. And as has been pointed out, often no one answers the phone to confirm whether they're open or not at any given time.

Was there about a week ago and had snacks/apps outside. The creamy polenta was great, much like at L'impero. The tuna "susci" was also very nice. The duck/foie ravioli were very good...just enough foie for richness, but didn't overwhelm the duck. I can see how it might vary from day to day, though. The scallop carpaccio was pleasant, but not overly memorable.

Wow. Nicely done! Although that's pretty thorough, anyone with further additions is certainly welcome to give it a shot.

Great additions. Note: Resto is only open till 11:30 for most of the week (and often start closing before that).

Ssam regulars, I need a little help with some grammatical/syntactical strangeness on Ssam's phone message. Called there last night to find out whether they were still serving. I listened to their message, and after the statement of hours, they said the following: "We only serve beverages after midnight Monday - Wednesday". Since the syntax could be interpreted in one of two ways, I didn't know whether that meant: 1. There was no food after midnight on those days, only drinks. or 2. They don't serve beverages (alcoholic presumably) late nights, except those days. Anyone with insight to what Ssam serves on what days please advise. A full statement of what types of menus are available when might be apropos, as Ssam has changed this more than a few times.

After having a frustrating time yesterday finding somewhere to eat after midnight, I thought it would be worth starting a good late night eats thread here. My frustration is related to the fact that many supposedly late night places only really do the late night thing on certain days, usually weekends. For example, Tailor closed their kitchen and was only serving drinks. So for purposes of discussion, I thought I'd put forth the following parameters: 1. Places must be open at least until 12am on all weekdays that they're open. Preferably much later. In fact, we should mention hours, so the list is useful for those scavenging at 2am as well as midnight. 2. They should be serving at least some semblance of their regular menu. Some abbreviations are understandable, but a "just snacks" or heavily edited late night format isn't what we're talking about. 3. Let's limit the discussion to places that are upscale and/or ambitious "serious" restaurants. There are dozens of places in Chinatown, loads of pizzerias, and lots of diners with good meatloaf, etc. This thread is for the full on restaurants that are open later than you'd think, not the best of the usual late night fare. For example, Sushi Seki is an appropriate suggestion. Katz's Deli is not, much as I like it. I'll start with a few: Sushi Seki (3am) Tsukushi (3am) Blue Ribbon (Sushi till 2am still? Brasserie till 4am?) Please chime in.

← I don't agree. I'm not a member of the "Temple of Chang". I like Ssam, but have had both good and bad meals there. I think Noodle is good, but have had quite a few meals there that weren't memorable. As FG points out above, I was highlighting the ways in which Sokolov misses the point in terms of what he is trying to achieve. After all, how do you know I like Stravinsky better than Radiohead? As it happens, I don't...I find them equal but different....which was my point. And he did, in my mind, seem to be pouty in several quotes. I'm still sticking with the Mariani Effect (although to be fair, Mariani has finally made an effort to at least pretend to open his mind of late).

From what you've written, one would think he hated Ko, which isn't the case at all. It seems that when a critic shows less than the requisite level of rapture with one of Chang's places, people think the critic "just doesn't get it." Well, maybe they do get it. No chef and no restaurant is loved by everybody. Doesn't happen. His complaints (the backless stools, the reservations process, etc.) are certainly not new. Many critics, both pro and amateur, have made similar complaints. ← Fair enough...I suppose my reaction was a bit overplayed considering. I was just frustrated at his comparisons, which seemed sloppy, regardless of how much he liked/disliked the food. I think Fat Guy may have nailed it on the head with the generational thing: call it the "Mariani Factor"

I've witnessed this particular phenomenon. First time there (first weekend Ko was open) the couple seated next to us had been pulled from Ssam bar because someone had flaked on their reservation. They thought they'd won the lottery. Just to add to FG's comments above - I've been to Ko three times now and have had success making reservations for friends and family. I had pretty good luck for the first couple of months, both at 10am and in grabbing cancellations that popped up. That changed after Bruni's review came out when it became much more difficult. I only started having success again a couple weeks ago when I was able to scoop a two-top as an anniversary gift for my parents-in-law who were visiting from Denver and house-sitting for us. I suspect demand has lightened up for the summer but will probably get tough again in September. ← Was that recent two top acquired at 10am or as a cancellation? Just curious, as I've still been having an impossible time and haven't been at all yet.

It seems like he totally misses the point. The only similarity among the places cited is the difficulty in acquiring reservations. It also seems like he wanted to get "revenge" on Ko for making reservations so tough to come by, much as many reviewers savaged Waverly Inn (probably deservedly in that case) just to give payback for the seemingly exclusionary reservation situation. I've eaten at all the restaurants cited except for Minibar, and think he's way off the mark. If anything, Chang's goal has always been to remove the formality of meal structure, so Sokolov's yearning for chair backs, special service and the like is almost like criticizing a Radiohead concert for not playing more Stravinsky. Time for him to accept that not every restaurant feels compelled to treat him like royalty just because he's a member of the food press. He sounds like someone pouting outside the door of the latest hot club.

I'm a huge fan of mackerel but it seems to be a rare thing . Shime-Saba (pickled mackerel) is the stuff normal sushi restaurants serve. I've even been served it at 15 east and Ushi. As of right now, the best saba I've ever had was @ yasuda 2-3 weeks ago and 2nd best was Shimizu 2-3 years ago. It's truly a great thing to get fresh saba (not sanma or some other fish in the mackerel family). If I had reread your post before going to ushi tonight I would have made it a point to check if any was available. Oh well, there's always tomorrow. ← Like you, I'm often saddened by the lack of good saba in this town. And I totally agree that there's sometimes some to be had at Shimizu. Keep trying...it's not an everytime thing at Ushi, but when it's good, it's good.

There will surely be some spirited disagreement on this one, but personally I'd strongly recommend you do Ssam Bar if you can only do one. Obviously, it's best to do both:) Ssam is a bit more adventurous culinarily, and strays a bit more from the classic Asian influences. Still, both are excellent, and each has its strengths. The two also share a few menu items. But for me, it comes back to the variety and more ambitious nature of the food at Ssam.