LPShanet

If you can, you should get to Ko. However, that's where the "stupid" reservation situation is. Best bet is to keep trying for cancellations, especially late night. The other two are both walk-in only, so you should be fine as long as you go at a good time. Both Noodle and Ko are great, but I think if you have to choose, Ssam is more unusual in terms of menu items. Personally, I prefer Ssam, but you can make a case for either. Better to do both.

Also, Eighty One.

This makes me sad, as I haven't spent the food credit yet! Since it's free, I'll still be going, and I'll post my impressions of how the food has changed since my previous visit, which was a while ago.

Well, here we go again. This time the offender was Commerce (last Thurs), and the way it went down was one of the worst in memory. Arrived on time for our 8:15 reservation, and were asked to wait at the bar. 15 minutes later, no one had spoken to us or updated us. We asked about our table and were told "it won't be too much longer". At this point we noticed another group of 4 at the bar, who seemed to be in a fight with the hostess because they'd been waiting 50 minutes after the time of their reservation, and still weren't seated. (When they finally were seated, it was a terrible table right in front of the door.) I felt sorry for them. Another 20 minutes passed (35 total), and we asked again. Now I felt sorry for us. This time we were told that the table had paid their check and they were just waiting for them to leave. As usual, though, they were unwilling to ask them to leave or move to the bar, and the hostess was quite snotty about things rather than apologetic. Another ten minutes and no change. At no time did they offer us a drink or any similar gesture. I walked up to the stand again, and suggested to them that they might want to offer the table we were waiting for a drink at the bar, since it was 50 minutes after our reservation! I further suggested that they might want to do the same for us, since they hadn't offered any such courtesy. She quickly said, "we'll buy your next round" and went off to check on the table. The attitude she gave off wasn't at all friendly, though...it was condescending. We were finally seated 55 MINUTES LATE, and the promise of a drink had been completely forgotten. I had to inform the waitress that the hostess had offered this, and send her off to check on it. The service at the meal itself was also a fiasco. Getting to place our order took another 25. We were told that one of our mains would take about 35 minutes, which was fine with us, since we set up the meal to come as three courses (app, pasta, main), and thought the timing would be fine. It wasn't. After we finished our appetizers, we noticed it was taking an unusually long time to get our main dishes. When they did finally arrive, almost 30 minutes later, one of them was incorrect (the chicken), and the server immediately told us she'd get the correct dish coming. Unfortunately, it was the chicken that was supposed to take 35 minutes, but she assured us that she could shuffle orders around in the kitchen so that one that had already been started for another table was intercepted. She was wrong. 25 minutes passed. No chicken. 35 minutes passed. Still no chicken. 45 minutes passed. No chicken. Each time we asked about it, it was "almost ready". Meanwhile, several tables that had ordered after we already had received the wrong dish were starting to get the same chicken dish, so they clearly had not only not done the intercepting promised, but hadn't even put us first in the queue. Finally, having waited a total of an hour for the replacement chicken, we were all exhausted, and due to the slow pace of the courses, a bit full. We had been at the restaurant for over 3 hours now, without receiving our mains. We asked them to just wrap up the chicken to go, whenever it was done, since we couldn't stay any longer. 15 minutes later, we finally got our bags of chicken and paid the bill. They, of course, made no offer to comp it. Finally, as we walked out of the restaurant, the hostess said goodbye and asked us how everything was. I told her the food that we got was good, but the chicken had taken so long that we had to take it with us. Instead of apologizing, she said accusingly, "Well, we told you the chicken takes at least an hour!". My jaw dropped. Not only had they been rude to us from the start and completely incompetent in honoring our reservation or providing service, but they now were not only not apologizing, but attacking me. Furthermore, she was lying outright, as we were told repeatedly during the ordering process that the chicken takes 35 minutes. That, of course, doesn't take into account the server bringing the wrong order first. In total, we had waited over an hour and a half for the chicken anyway. At that point, I was really annoyed, and I asked one of the other hostess types, who had been watching this conversation from a few feet away, for the name and contact info of the manager. She gave them to me, and I left, planning to make a call the next day. I'm not sure why, but when I got home, something made me think I should check into the manager's identity before calling. After a quick Google, I discovered that they had played an end run on me...the manager, whose name they had given me, was the actually the same hostess who had been so rude all along, and had yelled at me moments earlier about the chicken! No wonder she was so fearlessly horrid...she doesn't have to answer to anyone. It seemed that almost everyone was seated very late for their tables, and most had reservations. These were not 10 or 15 minute latenesses, but 30 minutes plus in almost all cases. Shame on them.

Went to Commerce on Thursday. Total fiasco. Those who have read the thread about "waiting even with a reservation" will be able to understand my frustration with Commerce. We arrived on time for our 8:15 reservation, and were asked to wait at the bar. 15 minutes later, no one had spoken to us or updated us. We asked about our table and were told "it won't be too much longer". At this point we noticed another group of 4 at the bar, who seemed to be in a fight with the hostess because they'd been waiting 50 minutes after the time of their reservation, and still weren't seated. (When they finally were seated, it was a terrible table right in front of the door.) I felt sorry for them. Another 20 minutes passed (35 total), and we asked again. Now I felt sorry for us. This time we were told that the table had paid their check and they were just waiting for them to leave. As seems typical, though, they were unwilling to ask them to leave or move to the bar, and the hostess was quite snotty about things rather than apologetic. Another ten minutes and no change. It should be noted that at no time did they offer to buy us a drink or any similar gesture while we waited. Finally, I walked up to the stand again, and suggested to them that they might want to offer the table we were waiting for a drink at the bar, since it was 50 minutes after our reservation! I further suggested that they might want to do the same for us, since they hadn't offered any such courtesy. She quickly said, "we'll buy your next round" and went off to check on the table. The attitude she gave off wasn't at all friendly, though...it was the condescension typical at places that are more trendy than serious. When we were finally seated, 55 MINUTES LATE, the promise of a drink had been completely forgotten. I had to inform the waitress that the hostess had offered this, and suggested that they just pick up the round we already had at the bar, since we were going to order wine (and they weren't offering to buy it for us). Getting to place our order took another 25 minutes, as our waitress failed to return after answering a few questions. She was very nice throughout the evening, and just as incompetent as she was friendly, it seemed. After brief deliberation, we decided duck and foie gras rillettes, a hamachi sashimi dish, spaghetti carbonara, and the ragu of assorted things with orechiette as our starters. Entrees included a Braised Beef, Bone Marrow And Sliced Sirloin Steak with crushed cauliflower and a chicken dish for two that had been highly recommended. We were told that the chicken would take about 35 minutes, which was fine with us, since we set it up to come as three courses (app, pasta, main). There were a number of other items ordered by our group, too, though I can't recall the specifics. Apps came another 20 minutes later, all of which were very good. It's really a shame the service was making the overall experience so unpleasant, as I think some of the dishes are really notable, and all of the food was consistent solid. Having finished our appetizers, we noticed it was taking an unusually long time to get our main dishes. When they did finally arrive, almost 30 minutes later, one of them was incorrect (the chicken), and she immediately told us she'd get the correct dish coming. Unfortunately, it was the chicken that was supposed to take 35 minutes, but she assured us that she could shuffle orders around in the kitchen so that one that had already been started for another table was intercepted. She was wrong. 25 minutes passed. No chicken. 35 minutes passed. Still no chicken. 45 minutes passed. No chicken. Each time we asked about it, it was "almost ready". Meanwhile, several table that had ordered after we already had received the wrong dish were starting to get the same chicken dish, so they clearly had not only not done the intercepting promised, but hadn't even put us first in the queue. Finally, having waited a total of an hour for the replacement chicken, we were all exhausted, and due to the slow pace of the courses, a bit full. We had been at the restaurant for over 3 hours now, without receiving all of our mains. Rather than make a big stink about it, we simply asked them to not bother plating it, and just wrap up the chicken to go, whenever it was done. 15 minutes later, we finally got our bags of chicken and paid the bill. We probably should have cancelled the chicken, but felt bad about doing so at such a late stage. They, of course, made no offer to comp it. Finally, as we walked out of the restaurant, the hostess said goodbye and asked us how everything was. I told her the food that we got was good, but the chicken had taken so long that we had to take it with us. Instead of apologizing, she said accusingly, "Well, we told you the chicken takes at least an hour!". My jaw dropped. Not only had they been rude to us from the start and completely incompetent in honoring our reservation or providing service, but they now were not only not apologizing, but attacking me. Furthermore, she was lying outright, as we were told repeatedly during the ordering process that the chicken takes 35 minutes. That, of course, doesn't take into account the server bringing the wrong order first. In total, we had waited over an hour and a half for the chicken anyway. At that point, I was really annoyed, and I asked one of the other hostess types, who had been watching this conversation from a few feet away, for the name and contact info of the manager. She gave them to me, and I left, planning to make a call the next day. I'm not sure why, but when I got home, something made me think I should check into the manager's identity before calling. After a quick Google, I discovered that they had played an end run on me...the manager, whose name they had given me, was the actually the same hostess who had been so rude all along, and had yelled at me moments earlier about the chicken! No wonder she was so fearlessly horrid...she doesn't have to answer to anyone. It's a major shame that Commerce is being run so badly. The food actually has quite a bit of merit, but we were definitely not the only people that night who were treated poorly. It seemed that almost everyone was seated very late for their tables, and may well have had the same kind of service we did. I'm well aware that "Thursday is the new (or non-B&T) Friday, but they still have an obligation to honor their reservations or reduce the number they take. Shame on them on so many levels. I hope Harold Moore (the chef/owner) is able to make some drastic changes so that people can eat his food without having to endure Commerce as it now exists.

I've been once since it became Convivio (and a couple of time when it was L'impero, but under White's watch). It's always been at least very good, and can be really excellent at times. My one complaint was a giant service fiasco that started with a snotty hostess and a 40 minute wait despite the fact that I had a reservation (which happens to be a huge pet peeve of mine...see thread about that topic). Even once seated, the food came very slowly that night (although I might not have noticed it had they not gotten off to such a bad start). Still, even that night, the food was very good. To their credit, a phone call to the manager produced a thorough and sincere apology and a generous credit toward a future meal. But I digress. You should definitely go. The food is first rate Italian, and the prix fixe is a good deal. You can choose any four courses to construct your dinner.

The thing that is surprisingly "high level" at Mas is the price point. While it's not (as Oakapple points out) operating at the quality level of some of the other suggestions proffered, the prices are higher than pretty much any of the others when ordering a la carte. It always seemed inappropriately priced to me.

At the risk of being boring and predictable, I'm going to agree with Sneak yet again. I would definitely choose Blue Hill over Telepan. Let me preface this first by saying that I haven't eaten at the Manhattan Blue Hill in a few years, and that most of my meals at the NYC location took place before he opened Stone Barns, so Barber was probably present more often in the city. (It's worth noting that the NYC location isn't, therefore, an "outpost" in the formal sense, as it predates Stone Barns.) My impressions of it are based on old information. That said, based on the meals I've had at both places, I found Blue Hill to be not only better than Telepan, but a whole level above it in terms of the cooking. While we were making judgements based on small degrees of difference when debating EMP versus Corton, I didn't find Telepan to be even in the same league as any of the others we've talked about. The food, while satisfactory, was fairly boring in terms of flavor (which is more important than adornment) and seemed similar to stuff I've had at dozens of other places. And while Blue Hill certainly isn't wildly innovative, it used to be known as one of the places in town that first adopted "new" techniques (e.g. sous vide, and also early use of foams before they became widely known outside of Spain). The comparison of how much each place "adorns" their food didn't really correlate with how interesting and complex the flavors were. And as Sneak says, it's a highly regarded destination. I'm not sure if the reasons are the same, but like Sneak, I wouldn't call farm-to-table/localvore my favorite genre of restaurant. But the ones that really disappoint me are the ones that hide behind the virtues of the localvore theme while proffering food that is low on taste and interest. For that reason, I found Telepan to be decent but dull (and really don't get the rave reviews of Cookshop AT ALL). For the record, I thought my meals at Bacchanalia were spectacular, so I'd say I can certainly appreciate the style when done really well. And unlike Sneak (just so you know we're not the same person, I really did like my meals years ago at Blue Hill, though I had a dud of a recent visit to Stone Barns. Net result: another vote for Blue Hill as your new stop.

As seems to be the case quite often, I'm in agreement with Sneak. I like Daniel quite a bit, but I've never been blown away by a meal there. They didn't do anything at all wrong any of the times I've been there, but there was no "wow factor" for me. Although it's seemingly less formal than the ones you're considering, you might want to include L'atelier de Joel Robuchon in your consideration. Although there is some disagreement, I think the food there is more exciting in many ways than Daniel or EMP. The lack of formality is more theme and pretense. In actuality, it's a serious meal.

Alternately, you could just think of it like an athletic event, and do all tasting menus, and just "recover" later. Just like running a marathon, you have to push through the fullness wall...

Thanks for this information. I looked up the restaurant - and the website didn't say it was open for Saturday lunch. So I got around to calling the restaurant today and it is indeed open for Saturday lunch. And the menu looks great. Plus the restaurant is apparently planning to continue its Winter Promotion for quite a while (although the lunch menu is very reasonable to start with). I have been meaning to try Jean Georges again (haven't been there in a long time) - so this sounds like a great idea. Robyn ← As has been documented quite a bit on Egullet, JG is probably the best foodie deal in NYC. Go at once!

I knew it was really close - that's why I asked the question . You know what - I may do both. I assume that Corton is the hotter ticket - so it's better to do it on Thursday (which is my husband's birthday) as opposed to Friday (which is when we will do EMP). Yes? Robyn ← I'm with Sneak...Corton by a smidge. The flavors were more concentrated somehow. But I'm always in favor of doing both whenever there's a question. It sounds like you have a great lineup there!

I had the same impressions. Add to that the amount of emphasis being placed on the "show" of the meal, and I worry that it's Robata meets (or is it meats?) Benihana/Ninja. I'll wait till I hear something positive, and until then, you'll find me at Kinnosuke, Totto, and others.

I agree with all of that, and I also think the way the PR was done had something to do with it. In Tim Love's case, as with most who come to NY from great fame elsewhere, their outsider provenance and previous success is heavily promoted by the PR folks. In Nobu's case, it was more about the place and its ambitions rather than about importing an outside chef who was identified as an LA transplant. If anything, they played off his studies in Japan and South America. Also, the group that put the project together was already well entrenched in NY (Nieporent et al. and the Myriad Group). That said, I think food industry PR people might be able to learn a lesson about how to promote (and how NOT to promote) chefs who come to our fair city from others. My own theory is that many New Yorkers (rightly?) believe that standards elsewhere in the country are lower than in NY, so when they hear someone is the best chef in (insert random other city here), the immediate response is skepticism and doubt for the taste of his audience. This extends far beyond food to many areas where taste is involved. In some cases (such as Soto) the chef is good enough to overcome these issues, in others (such as that of Mr. Love) no so much.

On the other hand, you could make the argument that the original Nobu, which was nothing if not successful, was an "outpost" of Matsuhisa. Nobu was here some of the time, but still spent a large percentage of his time in LA and left the cooking to (then much less known) Morimoto. After all, every restaurant with a celeb chef's name on it has someone doing the actual cooking.

Susur Lee seems to be living here now, and he closed Susur to open Shang. I'm not sure that matters, but if anything he has followed the path that earns love for out-of-town chefs. ← My understanding is he closed one of his two Toronto restaurants (Susur, not Lee), and intends to open another one in the space Susur formerly occupied. I also believe that his move here is not permanent, but like anyone he is spending extended time here during the early period. ← Actually, I think it's called Madeline's and I think it's already open.

Couldn't agree more. I suppose the hope is that he'll at some point open the equivalent of Susur in New York.

Since the appeal of the food is clearly a subjective area, and opinions seem to vary widely about Shang (not to mention the possibility that the food may simply be inconsistent), I'll leave that alone. However, the comparison made here between Shang and 66 seems to be a bit off factually. 66 was not, to someone familiar with Chinese cuisine, what could be called fusion. The dishes were straight up renditions of specific and commonplace Chinese dishes, plated in a more elegant way than is typical in Chinatown. All of the dishes served at 66 were available in any Western Chinatown, with the same basic flavor profiles, ingredients and techniques. Ingredient quality may have varied, but they were standard Chinese dishes. Fusion, by its very definition, refers a combination of cuisines, and there was no combination at 66. It was simply fancy presentations of Chinese food. Shang, on the other hand, is definitely a fusion restaurant, taking ingredients, concepts and preparations from a wide variety of Asian cuisines and combining them to create a new whole. Whether you like the food or not, Shang is indeed a fusion, creating a new whole, while 66 was definitely not. I think the comparison, beyond their shared trendiness (and modern decor), is a miss.

She's totally into great food, and I'm sure it'll be more formal than the cheap but good restaurants we usually go to. ← Definitely post about your meal there if you get a chance. Haven't been in a while, and would love to hear how it's doing these days.

Cream-based sauce? ← That's how I remember it. My memory is of a cognac or brandy type sauce with lots of morels. My taste memory could be faulty, though...it was a long time ago!

I totally agree with all the above comments on the food at the two places, but if you've never been before, it's worth noting that the two places offer very different atmospheres. Degustation is primarily a bar-seating restaurant, and is less formal than sitting in one of the dining rooms at Babbo. So if formality and having a "special occasion atmosphere" is important, you might rethink things. However, if she's into food, disregard the caveat.

Since you broke the ice on Lutece, the greatest dish I ever ate was there. Bay scallops sauteed and finished with a sauce of fine tomato dice, tarragon, fish stock, white wine and a dash of tarragon vinegar. Stunning! What I remember most was that the pace of my eating the dish accelerated so rapidly as I went through it. The escalope of salmon with a mustard crust which followed was almost as brilliant, but still overshadowed.Still available? The justifiably lauded "Oysters and Pearls" at Per Se. ← Well, if we're going to mention Lutece, I have to put up their signature medaillons de veaux au morilles (veal medallions with morels). Not sure how it would seem to me in the present day, but at the time it was the dish that launched my lifelong obsession with food.

I second Oakapple's opinion. While Hearth is a very good restaurant and I enjoy it a lot, I think Annisa operates at a higher level in almost all areas. The food, ambience and service are all a level above.

This just in via Diner's Journal (NYT): Kyle Bailey, who cooked at Blue Hill at Stone Barns and at Cru, will be the executive chef at Allen & Delancey. He replaces Neil Ferguson, who moved on to SoHo House in the fall.

Oh, I like leaving 'em guessing. It's in the MPD, if that helps. ← Sounds like EVERY restaurant in the Meatpacking in some ways:) Can't think of many that aren't longer on attitude than substance, although there are a few. On a more positive note, I've had very good experiences at two Farmerie restaurants lately, Monday Room (which always has great service), and Double Crown (which didn't need to have good service, given its trendiness, but went above and beyond to be nice, helpful and hospitable). I expect exemplary service from the really high end spots, but when places a tier below them in terms of price and formality go out of their way, it makes me take notice.