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aussiechef76

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Posts posted by aussiechef76

    Interlude food similarities

    in Australia & New Zealand: Dining

    Posted · Edited by aussiechef76 (log)

    I really don't see what the fuss is about.  Interlude has dishes that resemble dishes served at other restaurants - that's what it boils down to, doesn't it?

    As a diner, I couldn't care less where Chef Robin (or any other chef) gets their inspiration from.  Hell, if a restaurant in Melbourne could do a note for note replica of the degustation from the French Laundry or El Bulli, I'd be there.  Anthony Bourdain in his intro to "Nose To Tail Eating" writes of a restaurant in New York that copied Fergus Henderson's version of the bone marrow and parsley salad.  If a chef copies the work of another chef, whether or not its intentional, it can only be good for diners.

    The concept that one chef can own a dish is similary puzzling.  This issue has only come to light due to the power of the internet.  As deco75 has pointed out, many other restaurants copy other dishes, but no-one seems to mind because they don't put pictures of it on the internet.  In years gone by, I would have thought that chefs would have been borrowing the best recipies for their own use.  I remember reading Marco Pierre White's "White Heat", and he has Pierre Koffman's recipe for braised pigs trotters.  Do any of you think that he would have mentioned the source of this dish on his menu?  I doubt it.  The dish only really exists from the moment it's plated til the time its consumed, that would be around 5 to 10 minutes.  I can't see how any chef could own that.

    Even if we did accept the idea of ownership of a dish, is it good for food as a whole?    I can't see how it could be.  Take Thomas Keller's dish of the salmon cones and that only he had ownership of the dish, what happens if he decides never to cook it again?.  All of us lose out.   Hell, we could take it to the logical conclusion and have every new dish owned by someone, and if you want to cook it, you must pay a royalty - enjoy the paperwork kids.

    Onto Chef Robin and Interlude.  I suppose we could all bring some petrol and burn him at the stake.  Force him out of the high end of the business and make him start another bloody gastropub.  But people, he's only in his 30s.  He is still learning his craft.  And he's doing it, whilst owning his restaurant, and doing tricky dishes as part of a 26 course degustation which he aims to turnover every 6 weeks.  It's potentially over 200 dishes in one year - I'm damned if I can think up any other chef who would try and do that.  Of course he's going to look for new ideas and try to adapt them to his menu.  He can take one dish, learn about it, understand it, and then move on.  In a few years time, he'll probably come back to the dish and add his own twist to it.  I reckon that if given the chance to develop his craft, he can become a extraordinarily fine chef in ten years time.

    Also, we're talking about no more than half a dozen dishes in a full degustation of 26.  It's a few notes out of a symphony.  Those dishes do a job beyond statisfying the enjoyment of the diner.  They link the previous dish to the next.  It can provide a contrast and connection between courses.

    but 17 out of 26 is a bad batting average in any country and what about the dish on the cover of gourmet magazine another evolution ?

    Interlude food similarities

    in Australia & New Zealand: Dining

    Posted

    And he's doing it, whilst owning his restaurant, and doing tricky dishes as part of a 26 course degustation which he aims to turnover every 6 weeks. It's potentially over 200 dishes in one year - I'm damned if I can think up any other chef who would try and do that.

    Well that is exactly the point. There is in fact another chef who is trying to do that... a few in fact. It is exceptionally difficult to do. That is why there are folks on here pointing out to you who those chefs are...

    And as for it being a few notes... to wit:

    The "tour" on the Interlude website either current or over the past 2 weeks (just changed tonight, no pictures on there now -- different menu... hmmm)

    "Very Similar" to Alinea -- 12 dishes

    Freeze Dried Pina Colada -- On eGullet Here Oct 18 2004

    Chocolate Ganache Helix

    Tobacco with Blackberry

    Skate with "traditional" flavors

    Cucumber with aromatics

    HOP in Five Sections (Daikon substituted, but same exact fillings)

    Caviar with Oyster Cream in Chervil

    Squab with Foie, Licorice, and Grilled Watermelon (what are the odds of that!)

    Liquid Center Chocolate with Rice and Peanut (same plating too)

    Squab with smoking cinnamon (same exact candle service piece)

    Eucalyptus Yogurt with Apricot and Thyme (in an an exact same tube)

    Dry Aged Beef, Braised Pistachios, hot spiced Jelly (ours was also bison -- same unique treatment of the potatoes)

    Also similar are the phrasings: "too many garnishes to list", "tour", and "mostly traditional flavors".

    I note 2 dishes that I personally have seen at WD-50 (they can comment better than I), at least 2 from Moto (ditto -- donut soup being one), and one from MiniBar (deconstructed glass of wine). Total of 17 dishes, without really thinking too hard.

    If it were one dish -- well that's an honor. I have seen Alain Passard's Egg and Keller's Cornets at many restaurants... often in homage to the chef's who created them.

    I am not a chef... and perhaps different rules apply here. But in any other profession or business -- from writing to computing to academia -- this would raise a flag...

    from the wd-50 end shrimp noodle (wylie has the patent on that one)Identical dish right down to plating

    caramalized apple miso icecream preserved plum(Sam Mason wd-50 pastry chef exact same dish componets and plating )

    Grapefruit on grapefruit (wd-50 sam mason his signature sorbet course on the tasting

    what are the chances

    Interlude food similarities

    in Australia & New Zealand: Dining

    Posted

    I think, there is a difference between "good" restaurants and "great" restaurants. A good restaurant's aim is to serve great, tasty food, whether traditional or experimental and to do it well. Cheap ethnic joints, traditional french bistros, great pizza, burger or barbeque places. These could all be justified as being called good restaurants. But great restaurants are another breed. Great restaurants are about one chef pioneering his own approach to food and pushing culinary boundaries. French Laundry, Alinea, Tetsuyas etc can all be safely classified as some of the great restaurants in the world because of their approach to the creative process.

    Now, nobody would have a beef with chef robin if he was merely the chef of a good restaurant, copying established dishes like the fettucini alfredo inventolux mentioned above. But Chef Robin is clearly placing himself within the realm of the great restaurants and, IMHO, this is a fundamental breach of expectations for his diners. Even if he could produce, course for course, an el Bulli meal, I think it would be fundamentally dishonest to do so and not have the diners be made aware than all of the dishes are copies. Because people who dine at great restaurants not only expect great food, but also original and personal food.

    Sure, ideas should be disseminated and chefs should be aware of each others work. I dont think anyone is denying this. But if a chef wants to study and incorporate such influences, it should be done in the back room, not on the menu. Perhaps it is hard to constantly come out with new dishes every 6 weeks. But I, as a diner, would far prefer a slower changing menu full of completely original dishes rather a fast one with elements taken verbatim from other chefs.

    But a menu full of identical cloned dishes is wrong we have no problem with taking influnce or technique but ripping the whole thing off and calling it you own is rude maybe he is in a different realm of great restaurants but through his actions it shows he doesnt the pass to play there as for him only being 30 the chefs who work he is plagerising are of the same age or younger and the manage to put out their own original food and if he can't come up with new food every 6 weeks without plagerising why try for a 6 week change

    Interlude food similarities

    in Australia & New Zealand: Dining

    Posted · Edited by aussiechef76 (log)

    I actually dined at interlude last week and although we only had the 11 course menu we didn't have any of the above scandelous dishes mentioned above. I feel a little cheated not to be involved in the controversy

    What we did have was very good though.

    Incidently its interesting looking around at other top Australian restaurants;

    Fenix in Melbourne has Liquid Nitrohen Poached green tea, lime and vodka meringue. Salmon wrapped in Liquorice. Oyters and passion fruit, all from the Fat Duck I believe.

    Circa has a dessert of 'Circa Snickers Bar' similar to 'Per Se Snickers Bar'

    Marque in Sydney has a signature dish of Choid-Froid Egg and a dessert of a tomato stuffed with twelve flavours both of which are famous at l'arperge, where the chef also did a stage.

    Maybe people shouldn't be pointing the finger directly at Chef Robin as this apperars to be more wide spread.

    Or maybe the are being pointed at the worst offender he has a lot of explaining to do

    Interlude food similarities

    in Australia & New Zealand: Dining

    Posted · Edited by aussiechef76 (log)

    Thought i should post my reply.

    With regards to the prawn noodle dish this came about after getting hold of some 'transglutiminaise'. Rather than just throwing it radomily into food, we had a recipe for the prawn noodles and started there, we then played around with recipes and new recipes to see what we could come up with . We now use it in completly new and original dishes. My trip to America and staging at Alinea gave me ideas and i saw new techniques that after cooking for over ten years in some pretty good restaurants i had seen before. When i got back to my own kitchen of course we played around and saw how we could use these techniques in our own food.

    We have quite a few dishes on our menus and they change about every 6 weeks. We are always coming up with new and evolved dishes for our menus.

    I totally agree that Chefs Achatz, Cantu and Dufresne are some of the top chefs in the world but I am sure they would agree that true originality comes from inspiration itself. If they do come up with a new technique as say someone like Ferron Adria has in the past. Of course people are going to imitate it and evolve it.

    I understand what you are saying.... but copying someone elses food right down to the componets flavours and plate style and then putting a photo of it on your website letting people think its yours is not evolution.... i lived in Sydney so it doesn't mean I can build a copy of the opera house in NY and call it mine or to put the confit of ocean trout from Tetsuya on my menu slightly change the way its plated and call it mine ... We also have transglutiminaise but we found out the temperature and what types protien it works best with enabling us to our own original dishes for our menu... The reason I checked out your website was because the guys from wd-50 were asked if it was the common thing to do in Australia(put copies of other peoples food on your website ) the shrimp noodles www.wd-50.com look in images or the Caramelised Apple, Miso Ice Cream, Preserved Plum from the pastry chef at wd-50 www.sammasonnyc.com look under recipes also the squab watermelon and Liquorice dish which i had at alinea when i dinned there..... is this also evolution ?

    why dont you also check out the menus at cru and guilt restaurants in ny for some more "evolutionary" ideas for your next menu and if you are so sure of the evolution of the similar food why were the links to the photos removed in the last 24 hrs New york is watching you

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