shawng

Chainifying is one thing, but it's a separate (but related) issue from what I feel has been discussed thus far, the idea that chefs are not challenging diners, raising expectations, further expanding their culinary boundaries and conceptions. ← The problem is that the chefs are not able to challenge diners or raise bars and expectations if they can't get a business off the ground. You need good money coming in from liquour to be able to afford to pay staff, get prestine product, buy proper equipment etc. etc. Also a reasonable lease would help as discussed earlier. Real Estate is outrageous and not just in philly the only difference is that other places can justify the expense. You need to be able to sign a long term lease and landlords aren't willing (cuz they want to jack it up as soon as possible) and young chefs don't have the backing. Thus left with this chainifying thing I guess. Rich get Richer. And the diners Suffer...

Sorry Market for not getting back to you sooner. I am glad though that matthewj was able to elaborate and I do agree with his suggestions. Now certainly there are some journalist who may be doing their part as you may be. But it takes more than a single effort, although it starts there. Unfortunatly there are realistically three columnist that people listen to in philly. The good thing is that I think I have seen all of them read this thread so they are interested. It is possible that they haven't been "movers and shakers" but that is probably by choice. I believe they can be if they want change. So either they pick up what were talking about or possibly catch on to what others may write about whether it be a smaller local scale or national. Don't get me wrong we also need to give you something to write about. For now their are things that matthewj mentioned to get started on. Philly in general is way behind the curve. We are finally going to have the smoking ban after about every other civilized city did it with out a problem. The liquor laws need to be updated. The bottom line is that they are extremely confiding to the success of a new restaurant or any young chef that wants to do good interesting food. This problem needs to be exploited instead of celebrated. I understand that byo's can be cool and fun, also that we were alittle forced to make them that way. But in order for the food scene to grow there has to be room for chefs and restaurants to be successful. Of course this is alot to ask and say especially for a city that has been very resistant upon change ( not necassarily meaning about food industry). Philly moves slow but this is definitly the time for change. With change, what we mainly need to do whether we are journalist or cooks or foh is support philly and each other.

Yes true bossman... You know how I get fired up about probably nothing. Anyway Mr. Petersen bigboss put it all alittle more eliquently as he so often does.

Thats good to hear. He should still have a part or a say in things it is his name and his legacy.

If you work with Fred then you'll be in a good position. Fred is excellent he knows more than you could imagine. I think the question still remains who else could build this following in philly?

Yes key, but this is alot to ask of a city that isn't very welcoming to change. It would take alot of networking and working together amongst chefs along with supporting each other. but above all what would help is if the food journalist would get involved in the future of the philly restaurant scene. They sometimes don't understand how much pull they have. They are the ones who could turn this in the right direction...

Don't worry matt I already told your old lady you guys are comin up too.

Thanks buddy I think it will be a good thing and if not somethin else is waiting down the line so win win I guess. You'll have to come to Friends and Family if I'm allowed to invite anyone that is. Not sure how that works.

Yes the Chef is the one making the magic in the kitchen... How ever he goes about it and many have many different techniques of people managment to get what they want and JML had a very round about way of getting the best out of someone. Its nice that Tk gives credit to Jonathan Benno and Corey Lee but ultimately you can overcome some hardships and make a name for yourself with a certain amount of determination as you mentioned bb.

What up BB workin a half day?

When a cook, sous or chef de cuisine is loyal and takes there job as more than just a job and a paycheck it is nice to see every now and then some recognition given or simply the chef returning the same jesture... of loyalty

There never really has been any classic mentoring in Philly period, nobody is really expecting a handout or special treatment. I think those who have made it past thier mentors have done so on thier own merits. I would define mentorship/sucession as having a positive relationship between the mentor and mentee post employment. ← I don't think Mattj is inferring that some special treatment was expected but when you are planning to leave it would help to set something up. What I mean is alot of chefs don't understand how many people they really know and how much a phone call or a simple introduction could do for someone who has been loyal to them.

This is more like my question does he stay open his own place own control and where in philly where he is a big fish or NYC where there's more going on? I don't know him personally maybe he is very happy or maybe this is just a stepping stone for him to do something grander...

Lets go juice is that you.. If it is you know the topic

My question is can Lee keep it up an train his people enough to produce a consistent product to maintain his possible claim to the philly thrown? Is he really the next JML or George is he here to stay or just passing by like Morimoto?

Thats much better thank you!!!

Shoemaker is often used but Beekeepers son is litarally means his dad is a Beekeeper and I was just referencing from a previous post..

By the way agreeing with V simplifying can and is a good thing.. I don't think that these restaurants are going to close tommorrow but it certainly makes things harder for us to do something high end. We all just need to build and be patient. Kind of like what BB said about doing his take on good food and then from there taking things and his followers to another level gradually. JML and George aren't known for buiding an empire overnight they are known for their consistency throughout the years.

Obviously not an english major and hense why I took up cooking I would tell Matt

Now of course I don't have numbers in front of me or hard evidence to proof this I've been told from a view creditable people in the biz that there cover count is down about 15% whether by choice or not I don't know. But this is info I believe to be true and the life of a restaurant like this can not be stable unless you recieved a deal such as TK did or have a more chill place like alot of them have. Like those you mentioned.

Well that'll be the bee keepers son was he home schooled. And this was the guy who used to correct my english and grammar while showing me the proper way to make bearnaise.

← And "God Bless America"

Excuss me for I am a newbee on the egullet thread. I agree with you V,matt and bb whole heartedly and it is this type of passion that we need in philly. Unfortunatly I feel the training at many of these establishments aren't there and therefore people don't have the common sense to what good food is.... (see blini boy and every cook that told him it was ok) And therefore that relats back to the customers and their knowledge. It is our job through the course of time to show and teach our young consumers what good food is. But first theres the bigger problem of the average line cooks knowledge and skill level and determination they are not all like us. This problem however is everwhere the talent level is so watered down it is disappointing. Frankly it is very easy to be critical when going out to eat when most of the time the simplest thing can not be done right. Certainly we have to walk the walk, but hopefully anyone talking this thread actually uphold standards. Philly does move slowly and we are very eager people we want change and good food and I believe clientele want at least good food but 2 problems arrive. 1. Alot of them now not all of them, don't know what good food is. 2. Most of which are scared of change and are not willing to support it (aka new local talent) and would rather get there $12 cocktails and a colorful crabcake at a star place to be seen of course. This can be changing but the reason fine dining is dying is just simply stated the person who said his last fine dining meals where 2 to 3 years ago. Well with that kind of following no restaurant can survive. Even Per Se's numbers have decreased and this is a young restauarant. Of course they can afford it but they are an exception. Now I must apologize because I am jumping around alot, but I didn't pick up the F&W but heard about Chris Lee and think that is very good for Philly. Hopefully he can start something good and start a good foundation where talent can grow and not just beg borrow and steal tricks from that will be no good to them in the future. Lee got the bass job through is own networking I believe. I could be wrong but there is this guy who is essentially a head hunter call Kitchen Miaestro I'm sure you have heard of him V. But Lee also worked for Gras and so did Cornealous back in the day so we are all in a small web here. Now assuming a few things, its refreshing to see LOYALTY being paid as it should be. Unlike anything I saw at Lacroix for the exception of one lonely sole. Yes and Hells Kitchen unfortunatly as much as it is funny and amusing this happens to be a perfect example of how sad our field is becoming. Even the couple of people that was supposed to have a clue don't. Although someone brought up a good point that I and BB only had one maybe to dirt like people in our kitchen imagine a whole kitchen of aka's dirts. (dirt being a particular individuals nickname.)