Nathan

No, I have not. My understanding is that the closest thing there is to "fine dining" is Bangkok-style "royal" which is supposed to be clearly distinguishable from the regional cuisines. My understanding is also that there is a difference between a full sit-down dinner (usually done at home or, if in Bangkok, in a restaurant) and a "meal on the go".

The point is that it is a fast food dish...not a sit-down restaurant dish. Its analogous to the Cantonese dishes at Grand Sichuan because, as with them, there is no reason whatsoever to order it as part of a sit-down meal. edit: and I think we've certainly established that it is not at all analogous to paste in Italy.

This is not the first time I've heard someone Thai express this sentiment: "I don't really know how pad thai became the most famous of Thai foods in America. To me, it is but one of many quick fast foods ............. I always find it amusing when restaurant reviewers judge the quality of a Thai restaurant by the quality of its pad thai, as noodles can hardly take claim as lying at the heart of my country's cuisine." edit: in other words, if R.U.B. opened up a branch in Paris and felt obligated to serve hot dogs due to Parisian demand, that doesn't mean that that R.U.B. should be judged by its hot dogs. edit: it would be like judging Yasuda by its takoyaki (if it served takoyaki). edit: or judging Grand Sichuan by its Cantonese-American dishes (which suck)

more info on Thai cuisine (and how it is eaten) from the Thai consulate: http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/index.p...d=185&Itemid=86 http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/ind...ask=view&id=186 (where it is indicated that pad thai and other noodle dishes are meals in themselves and not intended to be part of a Thai dinner)

I overstated. It is now eaten widely as a fast food in Thailand...especially in the cities. Tomatoes are an ingredient, not a dish.

Chopsticks are part of Thai cuisine, especially towards the north where there is more Chinese and less Indian/Malay influence. Chopsticks are used for noodle dishes while forks and spoons are used for rice-based dishes. At least, that was my experience when I traveled in Thailand for two months. Sean ← correct. they are used for noodles only. other dishes are eaten with spoons. (the fork is used to shovel the food onto the spoon) edit: my point was that in Thai restaurants here one routinely sees Westerners requesting chopsticks for all Thai dishes...not just noodles.

That is false. The only edit I made was to add the reference to the Tom Kha Gai.

The wikipedia link is interesting. Its sourcing is sketchy. It doesn't say where pad Thai originated. Rather it notes that during WWII the government introduced it to the country (from where?) and encouraged its consumption. That's not analogous to pasta. from the link I posted above: "I don't really know how pad thai became the most famous of Thai foods in America. To me, it is but one of many quick fast foods, with the best served by noodle carts, inexpensive sidewalk eateries, and small, nondescript mom-and-pop noodle shops, rather than fine restaurants, in the cities and towns of Thailand. I always find it amusing when restaurant reviewers judge the quality of a Thai restaurant by the quality of its pad thai, as noodles can hardly take claim as lying at the heart of my country's cuisine. In fact, its name literally means "Thai-style stir-fried noodles," and for a dish to be so named in its own country clearly suggests an origin that isn't Thai. " http://goodearthpeanuts.com/recipes/padthai.htm

In my experience, if a Caucasian asks for an Asian restaurant to go easy on the heat they don't get any real level of spice at all. In fact, if you ask for it to be at an "authentic" level, trust me, they're still going easy on you. If you want any heat at all....just ask for it to be "authentic"...that'll get you a moderate level of heat.

Interesting. Can you point to references to substantiate those statements? ← I gave you one in my original post. I take it you didn't read it? I've heard this from several Thai acquaintances over the years as well. Its a fast food in street stalls in Thailand, not a restaurant food. It almost certainly did not originate there because "pad Thai" means "Thai style noodles".

No, it's not analogous at all. Pasta is an integral part of most Italian cuisines. Pad Thai isn't eaten much in Thailand and didn't originate there. my surmise is that the only reason it is on the menu at Sriphithai at all is that Westerners keep ordering it. Kind of the way they have chopsticks for the Westerners who ask for them as well. more here: http://goodearthpeanuts.com/recipes/padthai.htm (agreed on the Tom Kha Gai btw, that's the best rendition I've had of that ubiquitous soup)

To sum, here are the places that have been specifically listed as underappreciated on this thread and the frequency for each (no double voting allowed): Picholine -- 1 Bouley Upstairs -- 5 B. Cafe -- 1 Aquavit -- 2 Devi -- 1 Craft -- 2 Annisa -- 1 Mesa Grill -- 1 Esca -- 6 Perry Street -- 2 db Bistro Moderne -- 1 Becco's (is this Becco?) -- 1 Gotham Bar & Grill -- 1 Sumile -- 1 Asiate -- 1 Daniel - 1 Danube -- 2 Hearth -- 1 Montparnasse -- 1 The Palm -- 1 Veritas -- 1 Telepan -- 1 Barbuto -- 1 Felidia -- 1 Wallse -- 3 Chanterelle -- 2 River Cafe -- 2 Il Buco -- 1 Cafe Boulud -- 1 5 Ninth -- 1 Keen's -- 1 Maya -- 1 Aureole -- 1 Savoy -- 1 Gabriel's -- 1 Gino's -- 1 Patsy's -- 1 Shun Lee -- 1 Chin Chin -- 1 China Grill -- 1 Excellent Dumpling House -- 1 Naples 45 -- 2 Alto -- 1 Arturo's -- 1 Cafe Gray -- 1 Compass -- 1 Quest -- 1 Esca and Bouley Upstairs easily garnered the most votes.

This is where Flatiron Lounge and Pegu Club have an advantage...you can virtually always get in. Death & Co. is enough of a hike for me that I pretty much have to be eating in the neighborhood. But with time it should settle down (though certainly from the economic standpoint of the bar I'm sure they're happy with it staying continually full...as they should).

Bar Room at the Modern and Degustation are also at that price point (or cheaper). I'd say that the Hearth price point hits a sweet spot where one can find a lot of great restaurants.

the Perry Street menu is here: http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/perry-street/menu1.html the Hearth menu is here: http://restauranthearth.com/menu.html they are at identical price points except that Perry Street serves a magnificently affordable lunch while Hearth does not.

The best sweet vermouth on the planet. You will never use anything else in a Negroni again.

last Wednesday was pretty mobbed. if you can get there right when it opens you should be fine.

I'm Eurotrash myself. I know a number of people who go to Barolo....and their friends. They're of European origin, yes. many work at the UN. same crowd as at Frederick's or French Tuesday parties (well the male ones)....those are commonly known as "Eurotrash" and no one is offended by it. (if you were raised in Europe and if in fact you are offended -- I apologize) there is an entire circuit of restaurants and clubs which cater to Europeans living in NY. Barolo is part of that circuit. it's not a criticism, it's an observation (heck, most of the good parties are part of it)

Barolo's not a bad idea. Kind of forgotten about, its heyday was quite a while ago...but the garden is gorgeous in summer. The clientele can make for great people watching -- its very popular with the Eurotrash set.

I actually thought the Miller Red was pretty decent. Still recommend Leinie's Red if you can find it.

indeed. or a Greenpoint (sub chartreuse for the maraschino in the Red Hook (lower the quantity to taste as well)

I use Carpano Antica as well....although Punt E Mes would be great if you wanted something drier. of course, Punt E Mes is an Italian vermouth, albeit a dry one.

yup. although that might be a hook with which to introduce classic cocktails to people. many a quality libation uses raspberry syrup. if it takes listing that as the first ingredient in a description to get people to drink it, I'm all for it.

thanks...I'm leaning towards that then.

I have seen no one denigrated here. Having an opinion does not grant one a god-given right to not be contradicted or disagreed with. Neither does the first person to express an opinion get to have opposing opinions censored because it might hurt the first person's feelings. As a human being I have the right to "negate" (i.e. disagree with) the opinions of others. I do not have the right to denigrate another's person for expression opinions that I disagree with. Personally, I am of the opinion that the opinion that all opinions are unassailable is both platitudinous and banal. edit: one more thing. this is rather pedantic, but assuming, arguendo, that taste is relative, it doesn't necessarily follow at all that taste is subjective (but then that word is both misunderstood and misused in common parlance). edit 2: with that said, I of course, am glad to see new posters and new opinions (especially ones that I disagree with) here. but no one gets a free pass. no one gave me one...and neither should they have.