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Wedding cake advice -- do I or don't I?


Serj

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Dear egulleters-

I am a student at the French Pastry School in Chicago doing their 6 month baking & pastry course. Today I was asked by an acquaintance if I would do the desserts and cake for her daughter's wedding, in May 2008. All she told me was that the daughter wants an outdoor wedding and loves chocolate. Here I am 1/3 into my course - I haven't done wedding cakes nor plated desserts yet (although I work as a pastry cook at a high volume restaurant in downtown chicago, so I have had some exposure). I had 2 first thoughts: 1 - what a great opportunity and 2 - what might I get myself into. Anyways I am going to see her again on Friday so we decided to talk about it in more detail then. I have no idea what I'm going to be doing in 4 months when I graduate let alone in 14 months!

Please - does anyone have any advice, suggestions or considerations for me??

Thanks a lot!

Serj.

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Hi Serj!

Welcome to Baking and Pastry (the forum and the life :wink: )!

I have advice and assumptions...take them both with a grain, at least, of salt:

This woman is only an acquaintance, correct? It seems to me she has approached you because she thinks she will be getting a deal, price wise, on your work. She figures, "Well, he's still in school, so he'd jump at the chance to make my daughter's wedding cake for practice...and I won't have to pay too much because he's a novice! He's going to FPS, which is very reputable, so I won't look too cheap."

That's the assumption, albeit a bit negative, I'm making.

Now here's the advice:

Ask her to wait, at least until you get through school, to see if you'll feel comfortable with your skill level at that time to attempt a wedding cake. I don't think people really realize how difficult it can be to properly plan and assemble a wedding cake. There's a play-by-play here on eGullet by K8Memphis showing just how time consuming it can be (she's a professional and the cake was for her daughter...it is truly beautiful, but you can get a good idea for how much work went into it).

or,

Say yes! The FPS should prepare you pretty well to be able to do a cake that far in the future. You'll have plenty of time to practice if you feel uncomfortable. And besides, you don't have to make a difficult cake. You can always say that you are only able to do one type of cake (whatever you feel good about, fondant, buttercream, etc) and if this isn't what she's looking for, then you're off the hook anyway.

then again,

I could be totally off base about this and you can correct me if I'm wrong...I feel like the FPS curriculum is VERY structured. They don't want to see you fail (as any school should avoid) and it looks to me like you are very focused on doing their technique and finished products in their aesthetic as opposed to doing something more in your style (whatever that may be in the fledgeling state you are in). So when you are off on your own, you'll have to relearn certain things. I guess that's the case in any school, I just know that I had more freedom when I went to school. Again, I could be very wrong here.

and finally,

It is a long way off, even with time flying as it does, so you have some time to think about it. As you said, you are already working in the business...so hopefully you are pretty realistic about the work that will go into it. Remember that it can be pretty touchy (BRIDEZILLA...OR MORE LIKE MOMZILLA) so think about how well you know this person and your ability to deal with people.

I always undervalue my time when it comes to charging people for my work. I've been in the industry for over ten years now and I still can't bring myself to charge enough...just make sure you charge enough to make it worth your while. The price can still be low, but you should feel good about what you've done and what you've earned!

There will be a lot more advice coming...I guarantee it...

Keep us posted on what your decision is!

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Do your self and friend a favor and decline politely. Too much can go wrong and ruin or strain your friendship. Not only from a legal stand point but logistical.

You would need a certified commercial kitchen to do the work and store the cake as well As several city permits and licenses. The bride will change her mind at least four times between now and the date. Unless she is a graphic artist that can give you a color rendition of the cake she wants you will miss or not get some detail. That is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg and Murphy’s Law will be in full effect.

I have learned the hard way on this issue and variations of it that favors for weddings and other once only events can spell doom.

Living hard will take its toll...
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Even though 4 months seems like a lot of time, you're essentially being asked to develop and research a band new product and all the particulars start to finish. All this while going through a very intensive pastry program, in which you should dedicate all your energy towards. Even though you can probably just perfect a really good chocolate cake and use ganache frosting, both of which are fairly easy to master, there are SO many other things that go into wedding cakes. For example, the stand. The millions of meeting with the bride and comments and such.

You will have plenty of opportunities to make wedding cakes as you continue your pastry career. I would actually classify wedding cakes as SEPARATE from baking, as there are so many other things that go into them besides how the cake actually tastes. For that reason, I personally try to avoid them. We served ice cream at my wedding ;)

Stephanie Crocker

Sugar Bakery + Cafe

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I would talk about it on Friday, and see how you feel about it, and what they want.

And in the meantime, think about how you feel about decorated cakes in general and large party desserts. If it's something that you think you'd probably like, go for it. You should be prepared to do it by the end of your program, and the experience will be good.

Just make sure you get a fair price if you do it -- after all, it will be well after your graduation, so it's not like you'll be a student or fresh culinary school grad.

To put this in context -- I graduated from the CIA Greystone for Baking and Pastry last year, and I know I can do wedding cakes... but I also know that I don't like doing them! :) So, I wouldn't do it no matter what, but I know people in the program who would jump at any chance to establish their wedding cake business.

Edited by SugarGirl (log)
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How big will it be? You can do chocolate cake but no chocolate icing if it's for outside. Cakes outside can melt or fade. Even in Chicago where it'd be probably cool in May. The addition of the outdoor factor ups the ante considerably. The wind, the bugs, the sun. Wedding cakes generally are the focal point at the wedding. Putting it outside dilutes it's effect considerably and it becomes a sensitive liability registering high on the stressometer. Be sure to have a real good backup plan because you have to wait til the last minute to know if the weather will cooperate.

The demo that Alana so kindly referenced is at this link. Good luck. Are you still in school at this time? Would a teacher want to take this on as a class project? That would be cool.

I mean if they wanted a cake that was on a stand like these where you just bake a cake and sit it on it's own individual plate. No construction issues no problem-o.

Just so many variables. What else do you know about the order? How many servings? Afternoon or evening? How far away is delivery? What kind of decor? What kind of assembly like stacked or columns or what? Lots of brides will say "I just want a simple cake" Yeah, that doesn't mean simply made or decorated. It is not easy to get a smooth finish on a cake. It takes some skill. Fresh flowers?

Oh yes, call around to three or four bakeries and price a 100 serving tier cake and ask them what size it is. Size and price will probably vary considerably. Do not undercharge any bakery. That's just not nice.

Huge learning curve but you can so do it. My first cake was for a student at the school where I worked as a bread and dessert baker. Never made a tier cake before. So I got a Wilton book...

Edited by K8memphis (log)
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I tend to agree with K8 in that it's not an overwhelming proposition, especially since you are looking at 14 months for practice/development in your spare time. And there's no reason why you couldn't do it and do it quite well.

Just be sure to be as specific as possible in questioning the bride and mom regarding the flavor, style, and decoration of the cake. Ask them to give you a photo from a magazine of a cake they like, and talk about what it is they like about it. And recap everything in writing to both of them. Then practice, starting with small cakes, increasing to a larger version for each consecutive practice. By the time you are done, you'll be able to make the cake with no problems and will have one more feather in your experience cap.

By the way, your friends/family will love eating all of the practice cakes.

And, yes, get a Wilton book, which details information on the basic construction of a tiered cake.

Good luck! And don't worry - you will do well.

Eileen

Eileen Talanian

HowThe Cookie Crumbles.com

HomemadeGourmetMarshmallows.com

As for butter versus margarine, I trust cows more than chemists. ~Joan Gussow

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Hi-

Thanks for the replies!

I have spoken with both my boss at the restaurant and the chefs at school and they have all indicated that this would be a reasonable project to take on. At the very least, it can't hurt to talk about it tomorrow and see.

I feel pretty good about my basic technical and organization abilities. Although we haven't done wedding cakes specifically yet at school, we have done the layered cakes and had a good demonstration by Nicholas Lodge, both of which I felt very comfortable with. Also I understand I need to be able to be in a position where I have both the facilities and time to do the work - it's difficult to know now but my boss has indicated that I could use the kitchen at work if I'm still there and all.

I picked up a copy of the contract they use at the restaurant for special events. I presume it is common practice to have a contract for something like this - with all the details spelled out?

Anyways - thanks again for the feedback. I'll post with more questions when I find out more!

Cheers,

Serj

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Cake, yay! Keep us posted! Please, ake photos of your practice cakes and post them here for us. I'm very interested in watching your development as a cake artist.

More Than Salt

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Contract - YES!

I have a standard contract that I use for all weddings, even when I'm making a wedding cake for a friend.

The top part of the contract gets name, address and home/work/fax/cell phone /e-mail of people ordering (paying for) the cake.

The next part details where and when the cake will be delivered. Include contact name and phone number for anybody at a club/resort/restaurant that you will be delivering to.

After that the cake is described - flavor of cake, type of icing, color of icing, filling, include alcohol (or not), serve top layer (or not)...

Written description of wedding cake - this is where I detail different flavors in different cake layers, specific requests, draw a picture of the exterior, reference a page in a book/magazine that the bride specified, etc.

Pricing follows, including deposit for equipment and date final payment is due.

Items that require a deposit are listed.

Signature, date, check number and amount of deposit are at the bottom.

Once I receive payment I also sign the contract and mail them a copy for their records.

Any time we change something I amend the contract and send them a new copy.

Get everything in writing!! It prevents misunderstandings and makes you appear very professional.

My contract is just a document I created in Microsoft Word.

Good Luck! Mary

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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Contract - YES!

I wonder...in the contract do you also specify any concerns about allergies or dietary needs? I have none myself, but have recently been stung by giving baked goods to friends who have issues with gluten, nuts, or alcohol. And I recently read a story about a bride who spent the first night in the hospital because the chef added a little almond to the frosting...

I may be a little more sensitive about this issue due to recent experiences but I'm only cooking for a handfull of friends...and not a guest list of 300.

Traca

Seattle, WA

blog: Seattle Tall Poppy

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Contract - YES!

I wonder...in the contract do you also specify any concerns about allergies or dietary needs? I have none myself, but have recently been stung by giving baked goods to friends who have issues with gluten, nuts, or alcohol. And I recently read a story about a bride who spent the first night in the hospital because the chef added a little almond to the frosting...

I may be a little more sensitive about this issue due to recent experiences but I'm only cooking for a handfull of friends...and not a guest list of 300.

Great point! This is something that I always ask my clients.

There's no way you can know if any of your guests might have a food allergy, you can definately ask your customer if they're aware of any and if you need to use/eliminate certain ingredients. My concern is addressing any known sensitivities that a client or their guest has.

I still believe in personal responsibility - if I have a sensitivity or allergy to an ingredient - I'd make sure to request that it wasn't used in the production of my wedding cake!!

Beaches Pastry

May your celebrations be sweet!

Beaches Pastry Blog

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I'm not suggesting that anyone here does this, however just to balance out the contract discussion, I think if I was the bride I might tend to balk at some of the contracts some people use. In fact I think I would run screaming. The kind where you have clause after clause like you're buying a freaking house and have to initial here and initial there and if there's a car wreck and if I break my arm and if this and if that.

You can trace some people's entire history by all the rampant appendages and addenda exasperateeum (that needs to go in the I just made up that word thread) in their contract.

The idea of covering allergies, to me, fits in this category of far too much information. Not necessary. It's absolutely the personal responsibility of the individual with the sensitivity. There's no way a caker can guarantee their cake for people who might otherwise need an epi pen. So my practice is if asked I state verbally that I make no health claims.

I just have an order blank. I get all the info. I write down the money part, the amounts, the dates due and the non-refundable-ness of it all. They sign and away we go.

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Hi Serj. How did the meeting go on Friday? Hopefully you and your potential client were able to set the groundwork for the project. Or, were able to see that the project is not for you.

Some years ago, I had was referred, by an acquaintance, to a potential client to cater their wedding. This would have been an important opportunity for my new business, and certainly a workable group size (50 people, cas. buffet dinner, outdoors). There would have been financial gain, as a dinner for 50 is nothing to sneeze at. However, my experience in other wedding businesses (not food) has been fraught with: changes of mind and mood, weather fluctuations, interferring or well-meaning relatives of all sorts (not to mention Momzilla--who would be me, btw, at my daughter's wedding!), tempermental brides/grooms... and all sorts of other intangibles and "expectations" of who knows whom. Rather than take on the project and be run ragged, I declined on account of "I'm not ready for such emotionally vested functions as weddings". I reminded the client that her wedding was such a special occasion that perhaps she would like to choose a company with more experience and infrastructure. The client pressed for an estimate anyways, so I did a little research, and made sure that my price was in the middle of the pack for our region. I also referred a couple of other caterers, with whose work I am familiar.

That was three years ago. After working for a large catering company, as well as running my own business, I have acquired experience that would enable me to say "yes" to a small wedding.

Only you can know whether you will have enough practice to stay cool as a cucumber at a wedding... as K8 has mentioned, outdoor adds a whole other realm of variables.

Best of luck!

Edited by KarenDW (log)

Karen Dar Woon

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