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Kerry Beal

Cooking with "Chocolates and Confections" by Peter Greweling (Part 1)

595 posts in this topic

OK, did anybody else notice that on page 68 Greweling is showing a Badger Model 150 internal mix dual action air brush painting colored cocoa butter? I was under the impression from earlier threads that an internal mix brush would get hopelessly clogged, but apparently this is not the case.

I saw the picture and matched it up with the only Badger model it could be based on the color of the stem, the feed, and most important, the dual action trigger button.

The mist shown is much finer and under much more control that I can get with my external mix Badger Model 250. I don't know what head he has on it, but I suspect it is either Medium or Heavy:

Fine (F) - pencil line to 2” (51mm) spray pattern

Medium (M) - 1/32” (0.8mm) to 2 1/2” (63mm) spray pattern

Heavy (H) - from 1/16” (1.5mm) to 3” (76mm) spray pattern

Fine: Best suited to spray thinner materials such as water colors, inks, dyes, food coloring and gouache.

Medium:The most popular choice; will spray airbrush ready paints, such as Badger’s Air-Opaque,Air-Tex, Modelflex, Freakflex, Nail Flair,

and other properly reduced acrylics.

Heavy: Ideal for heavily pigmented and/or higher viscosity materials such as enamels, lacquers, reduced glazes, gesso, and varnish

This is getting me interested in trying out this model to see what sort of effects I can get painting molds. The Model 250 was so coarse in its spray that I didn't consider being able to do much other than heavy coating. The dual action lets you really control the flow of the line and that intrigues me. Being able to draw as fine a line as 1/16" with the heavy tip opens up possibilities.

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Phew, I finally had some time to make something from the book this weekend. When everyone was still asleep I whipped up a batch of nougat and it was sooo good.

. . .

Looks fabulous. I am anxious to try the nougat recipes but have been under the weather all week - hoping to be back to normal soon and ready to rumble. :rolleyes:


Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

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OK, did anybody else notice that on page 68 Greweling is showing a Badger Model 150 internal mix dual action air brush painting colored cocoa butter?  I was under the impression from earlier threads that an internal mix brush would get hopelessly clogged, but apparently this is not the case.

I saw the picture and matched it up with the only Badger model it could be based on the color of the stem, the feed, and most important, the dual action trigger button.

The mist shown is much finer and under much more control that I can get with my external mix Badger Model 250.  I don't know what head he has on it, but I suspect it is either Medium or Heavy:

Fine (F) - pencil line to 2” (51mm) spray pattern

Medium (M) - 1/32” (0.8mm) to 2 1/2” (63mm) spray pattern

Heavy (H) - from 1/16” (1.5mm) to 3” (76mm) spray pattern

Fine: Best suited to spray thinner materials such as water colors, inks, dyes, food coloring and gouache.

Medium:The most popular choice; will spray airbrush ready paints, such as Badger’s Air-Opaque,Air-Tex, Modelflex, Freakflex, Nail Flair,

and other properly reduced acrylics.

Heavy: Ideal for heavily pigmented and/or higher viscosity materials such as enamels, lacquers, reduced glazes, gesso, and varnish

This is getting me interested in trying out this model to see what sort of effects I can get painting molds.  The Model 250 was so coarse in its spray that I didn't consider being able to do much other than heavy coating.  The dual action lets you really control the flow of the line and that intrigues me.  Being able to draw as fine a line as 1/16" with the heavy tip opens up possibilities.

I have noticed that as well.Didnt know what kind of airbrush was. generally those are little bit more expensive than the badger 250.

Anyway I would love as well to try a different one with a finer line .I was looking at the badger aibrushes and found this one , http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bad/bad200-1.htm

What do you think.

I use the badger 250 and I am able to obtain a pretty good effects but not fine lines.


Vanessa

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I  have noticed that as well.Didnt know what kind of airbrush was. generally those are little bit more expensive than the badger 250.

Anyway I would love as well to try a different one with a finer line .I was looking at  the badger aibrushes and found this one , http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bad/bad200-1.htm

What do you think.

I use the badger 250 and I am able to obtain a pretty good effects but not fine lines.

As well as the little badger, I have an Iwata that should be able to make fine lines, but try as I might it doesn't seem to happen with cocoa butter.

By the way, at the French Pastry School we got to see a lovely spray booth that Design Realization in Montreal carries, it really did a nice job of controlling the spray.

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How was the class?

Mark


Mark

www.roseconfections.com

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How was the class?

Mark

Absolutely wonderful. Over the next couple of days we'll start a thread to share what we learned. We need John's pictures cause he was the 'official eG photographer' for the group. I just ended up writing stuff rather than taking pictures.

It was interesting to me to do some comparison of Greweling and Wybauw's techniques. Both are advocating tempering ganache, using slightly different methods.


Edited by Kerry Beal (log)

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How was the class?

Mark

Absolutely wonderful. Over the next couple of days we'll start a thread to share what we learned. We need John's pictures cause he was the 'official eG photographer' for the group. I just ended up writing stuff rather than taking pictures.

It was interesting to me to do some comparison of Greweling and Wybauw's techniques. Both are advocating tempering ganache, using slightly different methods.

Welcome back guys!!

We sure missed you in these days :biggrin:

Thank you so much for willing to share the faboulous experience with the rest of us , thank you so much.


Vanessa

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I  have noticed that as well.Didnt know what kind of airbrush was. generally those are little bit more expensive than the badger 250.

Anyway I would love as well to try a different one with a finer line .I was looking at  the badger aibrushes and found this one , http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bad/bad200-1.htm

What do you think.

I use the badger 250 and I am able to obtain a pretty good effects but not fine lines.

The brush in the book is dual action and I think that might be the key.

Being able to run the air without the cocoa butter would let you blow the nozzle clean after each stroke. That would keep the insides from setting solid. Being able to vary the one or the other is also supposed to let you vary the line as you go.

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The concave designs of most moulds do not allow fine lines. The pressure from the air, even on a double action brush, gets condensed by the dimensions of the mould and pushes the colorant around. Masking and layer building are the only alternatives. They both yield good results, but are very time consuming. I remember someone posting awhile back about devising silicone inserts for moulds which could possibly achieve the same effect. Even this would require some form of adhesive to obtain clean lines which, once again, would be time consuming. In a hobbyist time frame you can produce magnificent pieces with great detail, but from a production perspective...well let's just say, "I wish...." Good luck.

Shane Tracey

KeKau Chocolatier

www.kekau.com

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The concave designs of most moulds do not allow fine lines.  The pressure from the air, even on a double action brush, gets condensed by the dimensions of the mould and pushes the colorant around. Masking and layer building are the only alternatives. They both yield good results, but are very time consuming.  I remember someone posting awhile back about devising silicone inserts for moulds which could possibly achieve the same effect.  Even this would require some form of adhesive to obtain clean lines which, once again, would be time consuming.  In a hobbyist time frame you can produce magnificent pieces with great detail, but from a production perspective...well let's just say, "I wish...."  Good luck.

Shane Tracey

KeKau Chocolatier

www.kekau.com

That's a good point about any deep concave design messing with air flow.

While that would prevent you from creating detailed designs I think that a dual action brush would still let you put small dots of color if you pulled the trigger back only a tiny bit to let out just a bit of color. At the least it would let you focus the stream better than the external model I have that causes me to overspray by quite a bit. The work in the books photo is cleaner than I could reproduce with my setup.

That was me who was working on silicon inserts for the purpose of making fitting stencils. I found that it didn't work well for a couple reasons. The first was that even as thin as I could make them, the wall thickness shadowed some of the design. The second was that the air pressure tended to blow paint under the stencil, even to the point of blowing it out of the mold entirely if held too close. Of course I was working with a compressor that lacked a regulator and that might be able to be overcome to some degree.

Someone might eventually figure out how to make an effective stencil, but I'm out of ideas at the moment. Brushes and freehand work are the only thing capable of detail designs right now and that's not for production work.

However an airbrush and stencils may be just the ticket for making home made transfer sheets...

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However an airbrush and stencils may be just the ticket for making home made transfer sheets...

I'll let you know, as I have exactly that experiment planned for this week.


Tammy's Tastings

Creating unique food and drink experiences

eGullet Foodblogs #1 and #2
Dinner for 40

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I received my copy of this book last week, and I have to agree with everyone else - it is fantastic!

I also bought a new iSi 1L Profi Whip cream whipper today. The instructions for the aerated chocolate in the book call for actually heating the cream whipper to about 32C. Is this really necessary?! How would one heat up the whipper? I also note that the instructions for the cream whipper state that it is not to be used for hot ingredients.

Also, for recipes in the book which call for fondant - I have Caullet fondant. Is this the right type of fondant that is specified in the book? Thanks.

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I received my copy of this book last week, and I have to agree with everyone else - it is fantastic!

I also bought a new iSi 1L Profi Whip cream whipper today. The instructions for the aerated chocolate in the book call for actually heating the cream whipper to about 32C. Is this really necessary?! How would one heat up the whipper? I also note that the instructions for the cream whipper state that it is not to be used for hot ingredients.

Also, for recipes in the book which call for fondant - I have Caullet fondant. Is this the right type of fondant that is specified in the book? Thanks.

Proves how well I read instructions, never noticed the heating the cream siphon. I'd just hit it a little with your heat gun or hair dryer before adding the chocolate.

Tell us more about the fondant you have, is it scoopable, kind of like a really viscous liquid. If so it's the right stuff. If it is rolling fondant for covering wedding cakes, then it's the wrong stuff.

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I received my copy of this book last week, and I have to agree with everyone else - it is fantastic!

I also bought a new iSi 1L Profi Whip cream whipper today. The instructions for the aerated chocolate in the book call for actually heating the cream whipper to about 32C. Is this really necessary?! How would one heat up the whipper? I also note that the instructions for the cream whipper state that it is not to be used for hot ingredients.

Also, for recipes in the book which call for fondant - I have Caullet fondant. Is this the right type of fondant that is specified in the book? Thanks.

you should be fine as kerry said with heating it up, before putting the chocolate in, with a hair dryer or heat gun. you do this so that the chocolate which has to be in temper isn't shocked and doesn't set up as soon as you put it in the whipper. also, when you add the gas it cools down considerably, that's why the chocolate sets up so quickly once aerated and extruded.

when isi says not to use for hot ingredients, they mean things that are around 150+ degrees F. your chocolate and heating it up shouldn't be above 90-93F, so no worries. they make a special whipper for hot ingredients.

edited for clarity


Edited by alanamoana (log)

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So going back to the recipes,what starch is needed for tuekish delight???

Because corn starch sure doesnt work with his formula , or at least it didnt seems to work for me ,it didnt set nice and firm but more giggly.Definately not what I was expectin,I know he talks about thin boiling starches , but I have hard time find those at my local grocery store , :raz: .


Vanessa

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So going back to the recipes,what starch is needed for tuekish delight???

Because corn starch sure doesnt work with his formula , or at least it didnt seems to work for me ,it didnt set nice and firm but  more giggly.Definately not what I was expectin,I know he talks about thin boiling starches , but I have hard time find those at my local grocery store , :raz: .

Thin boiling starch is a tough one. I have not found it at any of my usual suppliers. I was able to get a sample from a starch company, the rep actually lives in my town, so I picked it up from him, but I'm not sure where you would get some in your area.

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I was wondering if anyone had made the pate-de-fruit recipes using pectin out of this book? In particular, why is "Apple Compote" used - is it for extra pectin?

Also, I saw the brief description for making Apple Compote under "Notes" for the first pectin-based recipe, but can anyone give me a little more colour? For instance, is it just baking peeled/cored/sliced apples with some sugar sprinkled on top and then puree the lot or is there a bit more to it? What sort of consistency should the final product be?

Thanks for any help

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I was wondering if anyone had made the pate-de-fruit recipes using pectin out of this book? In particular, why is "Apple Compote" used - is it for extra pectin?

Also, I saw the brief description for making Apple Compote under "Notes" for the first pectin-based recipe, but can anyone give me a little more colour? For instance, is it just baking peeled/cored/sliced apples with some sugar sprinkled on top and then puree the lot or is there a bit more to it? What sort of consistency should the final product be?

Thanks for any help

In the Boiron recipes if you are using a fruit with less natural pectin, you add pear or apricot puree. The flavour of the pear or apricot is not really noticable but it provides the extra pectin.

Boiron recipes here.

The apple compote in the book is just applesauce boiled down to a nice thick paste, no extra sugar required.

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Thanks Kerry, I've picked up the Boiron recipes already and have used pear juice in previous PDF's, but thought it might be interesting to try the apple compote.


Edited by gap (log)

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I just got the book and was looking at the "hot chocolate" recipe (located in the airated recipes) which has a cinnamon marshmellow layered with a ganache. Are both applied with the isi canister? How is the ganache applied? (can you whip the ganache and get the same effect?).

Jeff


Edited by jturn00 (log)

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I just got the book and was looking at the "hot chocolate" recipe (located in the airated recipes) which has a cinnamon marshmellow layered with a ganache.  Are both applied with the isi canister?  How is the ganache applied?  (can you whip the ganache and get the same effect?).

Jeff

Jeff,

It looks like the mashmallow is made in a more traditional way with the kitchen aid and the ganache is not whipped at all, just made as a smooth emulsion.

Looks good, doesn't it? I bet they are very tasty. You could do flavoured marshmallows to jazz them up. How about neopolitan, a layer of strawberry marshmallow, a layer of vanilla marshmallow, then the chocolate ganache?

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They do look good. I've never made marshmallows but this looks like a good recipe to try. The book is great (although I did find some typos), i find it a little more accessible than the wybauw book.

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They do look good.  I've never made marshmallows but this looks like a good recipe to try.  The book is great (although I did find some typos), i find it a little more accessible than the wybauw book.

as much as i love wybauw, i have to agree. i think a lot of it has to do with poor translation whereas the peter greweling book was written by a native english speaker in his own language being read by native english speakers.

is anyone else disturbed by the photo opposite page 114 (cinnamon stacks)? we're always being warned that we need to make sure that our chocolates have no air, etc. in them, but this method clearly allows large air gaps between ganache piping which goes against what i've been taught.

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I was wondering about that also.


Vanessa

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I like the Wybauw book better, but only after the "second translation" provided on the forum by DavidJ, you, Kerry, John, serj, and others. After getting the info from the classes, it's like a whole new book.

They do look good.  I've never made marshmallows but this looks like a good recipe to try.  The book is great (although I did find some typos), i find it a little more accessible than the wybauw book.

as much as i love wybauw, i have to agree. i think a lot of it has to do with poor translation whereas the peter greweling book was written by a native english speaker in his own language being read by native english speakers.

is anyone else disturbed by the photo opposite page 114 (cinnamon stacks)? we're always being warned that we need to make sure that our chocolates have no air, etc. in them, but this method clearly allows large air gaps between ganache piping which goes against what i've been taught.

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