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Was I wrong to not order anything?


MargyB

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And I also think there's something to be said for respect for the older generation.

Simply on a practical note, expecting grandfathers to be the one to make the change isn't usually going to get you anywhere.

I don't understand why rappers have to hunch over while they stomp around the stage hollering.  It hurts my back to watch them. On the other hand, I've been thinking that perhaps I should start a rap group here at the Old Folks' Home.  Most of us already walk like that.

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One the one hand I feel that one should obey the traditions of the home in which one finds him or herself out of general respect, on the other I respectfully ask why those outside of a given tradition have to acquiesce. Is that expectation not a bit rude, especially if it contradicts the other's beliefs, concerning patriarchy, for instance.  I guess I am conflicted: respect for another's culture v. personal freedom and conviction.

I'm thinking that courtesy and graciousness are not bad things, they sort of grease the wheels of civil society. Your personal freedom and convictions can still remain, but knowing when to yield or bend, can make all the difference.

I_Call_the_Duck: whew!! Those are some wicked stories! YIKES!!

I started traveling to the Far East when I was 21, and I learned very quickly the skill of looking like you like something, of always tasting what was presented to you. And I'm grateful to have this skill because you always collect more bees with honey.....

In our house, the 'suck it up' motto is 'pull up your socks' which was told to us by a very nice man in Nairobi, where they have lots of reasons for pulling up their socks.

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Just for the sake of argument, why is it rude to refuse food on the one hand, but not rude to force food upon people, by not consulting your guests on the restaurant choice, for instance.

Irrelevant, your honor. The guest had already accepted the invition. Further, expecting to negotiate the place at which your host choses to dine with you is presumptive in the extreme. It is a social occasion, not a business deal.

On a personal level, I do not feel you were wrong in declining to order. I will not have *anyone* dictate my behaviour concerning food (or much else, for that matter). But I expect the stares, rude comments and name-calling (such as snob). Bring it.

I'm always curious because I'm as much a food snob as anyone, yet I get by without rude comments and name calling. The occasional "ewwww" but you, know that's going to happen if you order tripe. Perhaps going along brings about a little getting along, as the saying goes. And the making an issue of the whole "I will not have *anyone* dictate my behaviour concerning food" thing when the "anyone" in question is an elderly relative who asks little more than that you join her in lunching seems a little...I don't know...

I don't drink and ppl are always trying to push booze on me. I also don't eat red meat and whenever I go to a BBQ, its the same, someone will say " eat a hotdog", its not red meat. Am I rude?

Everyone is entitled to turn down food if they don't feel comfortable eating it. When I first moved to rural Ontario, my gf( at the time, now my spouse) would take me to places where I found nothing acceptable to my palate. I'd rather eat nothing than eat crap food.

I agree with you 90% and have even entertained non-drinking vegetarians in my own home (HAH -- a joke of course, she drinks like a fish). Forcing something which someone doesn't consume "on principle" is unacceptable. But, if you eat fish, for example, they are allowed to try to get you to try a new and ickier version of fish -- like for a moment or two.

But...

It is ruder to foist unwanted food or drink upon someone - whatever the reason.
The original poster accepted a invitation to lunch. "Foisting" did not occur. It was a voluntary decision and once entered into certain obligations follow, like being polite.

Let me be clear. It's not a federal case. On the scale of rudeness it's less than elbowing an old lady out of the way so you can grab a taxi on a rainy afternoon, but more than picking your teeth at the table.

(Actually, I think we should all draw electronic straws and everyone write to a different advice columnist and see what they say. :laugh: )

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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Incrediblly Rude. So sad that the food wasn't "good" enough for you. I bow down to what must be astounding taste in your part that not even a side salad was "good' enough for you. What a wonderful, wonderful food snob you've become. I've said it before on egullet and I'll say it again. Food snobbery makes me sad.

I'm sorry, but this seems incredibly unnecessarily harsh and caustic. I know that sometimes on the internet it's hard to temper your words, but such unrestrained vitriol at a stranger makes me sad; in my opinion, your post is far ruder than her original transgression.

Everyone is entitled to turn down food if they don't feel comfortable eating it. When I first moved to rural Ontario, my gf( at the time, now my spouse) would take me to places where I found nothing acceptable to my palate. I'd rather eat nothing than eat crap food.

I agree! I'm kind of surprised, I admit, at the righteous indignation of some of these posts... I know for me, I would probably try to order something but not really eat it. It's not a matter of me being a 'snob,' it's that eating the kind of food mentioned makes me feel sick and bloated. If you make a conscious choice to stop eating processed foods, why does that not garner the same respect as other eating choices? As mentioned before, if someone chooses not to drink or not to eat meat or to go on a diet, it would be rude to force them to eat something they didn't want to. I'd also like to differentiate between refusing home cooked food at someone's house and being reluctant to order from a bad restaurant. And I completely disagree with whoever said that you are obligated to order, pay, eat, and pretend to enjoy what you are eating. I have been in situations at restaurants where my food was just horrible; I didn't eat more than a few bites. There's a difference between graciously setting your fork aside and drinking water while you maintain conversation and yelling, "This food SUCKS." IMO, you are in no way obligated to feign enjoyment of food made at a restaurant. At a home, the rules are all different-- if it was a real foodie, really good friend, I would tell them the absolute truth, if it were anyone else I would thank them and tell them I enjoyed it.

I think fish is nice, but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?

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Just for the sake of argument, why is it rude to refuse food on the one hand, but not rude to force food upon people, by not consulting your guests on the restaurant choice, for instance.

Irrelevant, your honor. The guest had already accepted the invition. Further, expecting to negotiate the place at which your host choses to dine with you is presumptive in the extreme. It is a social occasion, not a business deal.

I respectfully disagree. A proper host, in my opinion, always asks if a restaurant choice is acceptable to would be guests, e.g., "would it be alright if we ate at X."

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And I also think there's something to be said for respect for the older generation. 

Simply on a practical note, expecting grandfathers to be the one to make the change isn't usually going to get you anywhere.

Yup.

"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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I have to wonder if the posts aren't strong because despite the original question being one of taste, it becomes clear that it's really an issue between daughter and mother-in-law, not good food.

She could have eaten a Cobb salad.

She could have said "The heat is killing my appetite. Go ahead and enjoy yours. This tea hits the spot."

In my world, your right to be rude is superseded by an elder's right to spend a nice meal with her son.

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But the fact that they are boorish concerning your taste or the microwaved scent of Indian Food does not does not liberate you to be boorish yourself in a smaller setting.

Um, no. Saying "just tea for me, thanks" and continuing on with a convivial conversation is hardly on a par with sashaying around holding your nose and scrutinizing an individual's chosen meal, saying (ad alta voce) "how can you eat that!" If it is, color me boorish.

Edited to fix quotes.

Edited by moosnsqrl (log)

Judy Jones aka "moosnsqrl"

Sharing food with another human being is an intimate act that should not be indulged in lightly.

M.F.K. Fisher

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See -- you're wrong.  When you won't order anything, you are telling them they're ridiculous -- or stupid or garish or low-rent or whatever -- far more clearly than if you actually said something out loud.  Action/words...you know.

Whoa! When I say, "no thank you, nothing appeals to me today," I mean it! If someone feels low-rent, ridiculous, stupid, my ordering food won't change that.

"Oh, tuna. Tuna, tuna, tuna." -Andy Bernard, The Office
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There wasn't anything on the menu that appealed to me....I really did try to find something!  I did ask if I could order 1/2 of a cobb salad (although the picture did NOT look appetizing) and was told no. So....I chose not to order anything.

My mother-in-law made it pretty clear that my not ordering anything was not acceptable and that there were "plenty of things" to choose from on the menu.

So was I wrong? When you're with a group at a restaurant that doesn't have food choices you like, do you order something you don't want just to be polite?

Thanks,

Margy

Margy does not sound like a rude person in general, to me, from this post. Nor does she sound really snotty.

MIL does sound like she had a thing or two to say about how Margie is, though.

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Um, no.  Saying "just tea for me, thanks" and continuing on with a convivial conversation is hardly on a par with sashaying around holding your nose and scrutinizing an individual's chosen meal, saying (ad alta voce) "how can you eat that!"  If it is, color me boorish.

Exactly! Believe me, if not ordering causes that much of a fuss, imagine the fuss around ordering and not eating!

Suck it up is good, but I never apply it to food. MIL makes some nasty stuff and if she feels like my sons have to eat it in order to prove their love for grandma, well, grandma is going to have to suck it up, herself.

"Oh, tuna. Tuna, tuna, tuna." -Andy Bernard, The Office
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And I also think there's something to be said for respect for the older generation. 

In my world, your right to be rude is superseded by an elder's right to spend a nice meal with her son.

What was wrong wasn't not eating, the error was allowing one's food snobbery to make an elderly relative feel bad. It seems like polite excuses that should have been made were not made. Edited by hjshorter (log)

Heather Johnson

In Good Thyme

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Just for the sake of argument, why is it rude to refuse food on the one hand, but not rude to force food upon people, by not consulting your guests on the restaurant choice, for instance.

Irrelevant, your honor. The guest had already accepted the invition. Further, expecting to negotiate the place at which your host choses to dine with you is presumptive in the extreme. It is a social occasion, not a business deal.

I respectfully disagree. A proper host, in my opinion, always asks if a restaurant choice is acceptable to would be guests, e.g., "would it be alright if we ate at X."

Charles is right -- usually, of course, but moreso in this topic. And while we're dispensing folk wisdom, two wrongs don't make a right, even if you think that "forcing food upon people" (aka "taking them out to dinner" -- if that's what was happening) is somehow rude.

It seems to me that talking about friends and co-workers is missing the point as well. This is about family and culture, not friends you choose.

Meanwhile, where have you gone, MargyB? What're you thinking?

Chris Amirault

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Um, no.  Saying "just tea for me, thanks" and continuing on with a convivial conversation is hardly on a par with sashaying around holding your nose and scrutinizing an individual's chosen meal, saying (ad alta voce) "how can you eat that!"  If it is, color me boorish.

Exactly! Believe me, if not ordering causes that much of a fuss, imagine the fuss around ordering and not eating!

Suck it up is good, but I never apply it to food. MIL makes some nasty stuff and if she feels like my sons have to eat it in order to prove their love for grandma, well, grandma is going to have to suck it up, herself.

Maybe the solution to this one is give Grandma some cooking lessons for her birthday? At a posh place? :wink:

As an overly-polite person, I would mostly likely order and eat lightly (saying something about not being hungry or having had a big breakfast) in such a situation. I try to avoid conflict when possible, particularly when the conflict isn't likely to result in anything but hurt feelings for others and discomfort for me! Sometimes family is worth a mediocre salad.

"We had dry martinis; great wing-shaped glasses of perfumed fire, tangy as the early morning air." - Elaine Dundy, The Dud Avocado

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And I also think there's something to be said for respect for the older generation. 

In my world, your right to be rude is superseded by an elder's right to spend a nice meal with her son.

What was wrong wasn't not eating, the error was allowing one's food snobbery to make an elderly relative feel bad. Polite excuses that should have been made were not made.

Having been absent and unable to interview the relatives in question, but on the 'older generation' theme . . . my depression-survivor grandparents would have been far more appalled at the waste of food and money than at someone politely stating that nothing on the menu really 'hit the spot' at the moment. I guess it's all in context, depending on upbringing, etc. Unless we can get the other participants in the meal to join us and present their perspective, we can only read between the lines and speculate within our own frame of reference.

I can hear Jerry Seinfeld's parents - "what, this place isn't good enough for you?" :wink:

Judy Jones aka "moosnsqrl"

Sharing food with another human being is an intimate act that should not be indulged in lightly.

M.F.K. Fisher

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Meanwhile, where have you gone, MargyB? What're you thinking?

I imagine she's dug a hole somewhere are crawled in it. Really, all of this invective in the interest of good manners?

Judy Jones aka "moosnsqrl"

Sharing food with another human being is an intimate act that should not be indulged in lightly.

M.F.K. Fisher

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Just for the sake of argument, why is it rude to refuse food on the one hand, but not rude to force food upon people, by not consulting your guests on the restaurant choice, for instance.

Irrelevant, your honor. The guest had already accepted the invition. Further, expecting to negotiate the place at which your host choses to dine with you is presumptive in the extreme. It is a social occasion, not a business deal.

I respectfully disagree. A proper host, in my opinion, always asks if a restaurant choice is acceptable to would be guests, e.g., "would it be alright if we ate at X."

Charles is right -- usually, of course, but moreso in this topic. And while we're dispensing folk wisdom, two wrongs don't make a right, even if you think that "forcing food upon people" (aka "taking them out to dinner" -- if that's what was happening) is somehow rude.

Lacunae in logic: two wrongs make two wrongs - she should have been more polite, methinks, but perhaps should not have been placed in that situation in the first.

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What was wrong wasn't not eating, the error was allowing one's food snobbery to make an elderly relative feel bad.  Polite excuses that should have been made were not made.

The original post did not say excuses had not been made. It is possible that they were made and ignored.

Sometimes family is worth a mediocre salad.

One would hope so, Megan. This is how it *should* be. But there are families that can dole out more pain than love, for varied reasons.

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Busboy,Mar 1 2007, 04:45 PM

ust for the sake of argument, why is it rude to refuse food on the one hand, but not rude to force food upon people, by not consulting your guests on the restaurant choice, for instance.

Irrelevant, your honor.  The guest had already accepted the invition.  Further, expecting to negotiate the place at which your host choses to dine with you is presumptive in the extreme.  It is a social occasion, not a business deal.
menon1971,Mar 1 2007, 02:48 PM

I respectfully disagree. A proper host, in my opinion, always asks if a restaurant choice is acceptable to would be guests, e.g., "would it be alright if we ate at X."

(This may be fodder for a different thread), but suppose I said -- "I'm feeling like a little Italian today. Let me buy you lunch over at Luigi's Famous." Would you feel OK saying "you know, I hate Luigi's, why don't you buy me lunch at Sette Osteria instead?"

Or: "Mom would really love to see us today. I know its a little bland, but she really loves The Rusty Spoon." "No, I'm only going to see your mom if we get to go to The Frying Dutchman."

Or: "There's a hot new restaurant I'm dying to try, we're making reservations at Cafe Boeuf. You want in" "No, but I'll go along if you change your mind and go to the V-Note."

What I'm suggesting is that in many situations, there's a place for "is this OK with you. (Whatta you wanna do?" "I don't know, what do you wanna do?" :laugh: ) But there are many where not to accept an offer as offered would be to place -- somewhat ostentationsly -- putting your taste above the fellowship of the would-be host.

And hosting entails both privileges and resposnsibilities, as does guesting (is that a word?). Host gets first choice. Guest gets to graciously decline.

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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Busboy,Mar 1 2007, 04:45 PM

ust for the sake of argument, why is it rude to refuse food on the one hand, but not rude to force food upon people, by not consulting your guests on the restaurant choice, for instance.

Irrelevant, your honor.  The guest had already accepted the invition.  Further, expecting to negotiate the place at which your host choses to dine with you is presumptive in the extreme.  It is a social occasion, not a business deal.
menon1971,Mar 1 2007, 02:48 PM

I respectfully disagree. A proper host, in my opinion, always asks if a restaurant choice is acceptable to would be guests, e.g., "would it be alright if we ate at X."

(This may be fodder for a different thread), but suppose I said -- "I'm feeling like a little Italian today. Let me buy you lunch over at Luigi's Famous." Would you feel OK saying "you know, I hate Luigi's, why don't you buy me lunch at Sette Osteria instead?"

Or: "Mom would really love to see us today. I know its a little bland, but she really loves The Rusty Spoon." "No, I'm only going to see your mom if we get to go to The Frying Dutchman."

Or: "There's a hot new restaurant I'm dying to try, we're making reservations at Cafe Boeuf. You want in" "No, but I'll go along if you change your mind and go to the V-Note."

What I'm suggesting is that in many situations, there's a place for "is this OK with you. (Whatta you wanna do?" "I don't know, what do you wanna do?" :laugh: ) But there are many where not to accept an offer as offered would be to place -- somewhat ostentationsly -- putting your taste above the fellowship of the would-be host.

And hosting entails both privileges and resposnsibilities, as does guesting (is that a word?). Host gets first choice. Guest gets to graciously decline.

I state the following with a light hearted spirit: You live in DC, so how about some diplomacy (and honesty - I use to live there and always thought it to be in short supply, I am afraid) like saying actually I have had some bad experiences at X, could I buy you lunch at Y, or, say, suggesting that the person in question ask Mom if another restaurant would be acceptable (you are assuming that ol' Mom is inflexible - maybe she is really sick of the Rusty Spoon), and if not perhaps that is the time to "suck it up" as you proffered previously, or pursuant to the third example, simply telling the friend that you are not interested in Restaurant Beef - he or she is a friend so there should be some reciprocity, equality, and honesty.

Edited by JAZ (log)
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I'm interested in the opinions of the board. I was visiting my in-laws with my husband and the 4 of us went out to lunch at an "Arizona Family Restaurant" in a senior community south of Tuscon. The menu consisted of very standard sandwiches, breakfast all day, hamburgers and a few salads. As I've gotten older and more "into" food, I've found that I have become more selective as to what foods I will or will not eat. There wasn't anything on the menu that appealed to me....I really did try to find something!  I did ask if I could order 1/2 of a cobb salad (although the picture did NOT look appetizing) and was told no. So....I chose not to order anything.

My mother-in-law made it pretty clear that my not ordering anything was not acceptable and that there were "plenty of things" to choose from on the menu.

So was I wrong? When you're with a group at a restaurant that doesn't have food choices you like, do you order something you don't want just to be polite?

Thanks,

Margy

I love this post, haha. God, what would I eat at such a hellhole? I'd get an iceberg lettuce salad with oil and vinegar dressing and a diet coke. Then right when I left I'd go eat somewhere else.

Another idea is to get drunk beforehand. Then the frozen fries dipped in Heinz ketchup taste tremendous, and you can tolerate and even enjoy your mother in law. She'll probably be happy that you're finally having a great time. I get drunk any time I have to see my dad's side of the family, lol.

Edited by eipi10 (log)
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