Michael Pollan and John Mackey Discussions

[ludja]

John Mackey, CEO of Whole Foods, and Michael Pollan, author of Omnivore's Dilemma (2006), are continuing their open letter discussion in person at a sold out event sponsored by the UC Berkeley School of Journalism, tomorrow, Feb 27, 2007.

The good news for those that have don't have tickets is that the event titled, "The Past, Present and Future of Food", will be available as a live webcast. (It may be available for download later as well; that's not clear at this point.)

The link to access the live webcast tomorrow evening (7 pm - 9 pm PST) is available here: click

Here is information describing the event:

Whole Foods Market is the largest organic and natural retailer in the world. The co-founder and CEO of Whole Foods, John Mackey will offer a multimedia presentation of the past, present, and future of food. John Mackey will then join Michael Pollan in conversation, continuing in person the exchange of views the two have been conducting since the publication of Pollan's 2006 book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma."

Their correspondence, which has explored such issues as organic and local food, animal agriculture, and the role of Whole Foods, is available at http://www.wholefoods.com/blogs/jm/ and http://www.michaelpollan.com/article.php?id=80

We have had some interesting discussion previously on the eGullet forums regarding Mackey's May 2006 open letter to Pollan. This has also included Pollan's June 2006 open letter response and Mackey's subsequent reply. The thread is here: click

If you look at the links provided in the quote above you can also go to John Mackey's blog and Michael Pollan's webpage to read the letters. Michael Pollan has a second open letter to Whole Foods on his webpage that he wrote in September 2006. In that letter he invited Pollan to speak at UC Berkeley and to follow that up with an open discussion between the two of them. Mackey accepted and that is the event that will be broadcast tomorrow night.

It would be interesting to hear people's comments on the latest exchange of their public dialogue whether you are lucky enough to attend the talk in person or else are able to listen to it on the live webcast tomorrow.

Edited February 27, 2007 by ludja (log)

[ludja]

*bump*

The live webcast is tonight; 7 pm - 9 pm PST.

[Pontormo]

Ludja: Just noticed this, though few people seem to have read this notice. Since I would not have heard about the webcast otherwise, I really appreciate the advance word. Thanks!!!

If anyone learns that the webcast will be accessible, free at later dates, please speak up.

[Pontormo]

The coordinator of the event responded to an email. The webcast will indeed be archived and should be available in about a week at the link Ludja provides.

[ludja]

The coordinator of the event responded to an email.  The webcast will indeed be archived and should be available in about a week at the link Ludja provides.

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Thanks for finding that out, Pontormo! I'm going to try and listen to the live webcast tonight but may need to take advantage of accessing it at a later time. This may work better for people located at points East as well given the live broadcast time.

Hope to hear people's thoughts if they listen to it tonight or later... It should be interesting for people that shop at Whole Foods and/or that have read Pollan's book.

There is lot of interesting content in the open letters. In addition, on Mackey's blog within the Whole Foods web site there are many interesting questions and comments posted by readers. Mackey has taken the time to answer many people's questions in a futher back and forth 'hidden' within the reader's posts.

Edited February 27, 2007 by ludja (log)

[MarketStEl]

Could someone please post to this thread when the discussion is available on the archive site?

My interest in the three-part Frontline documentary "News War," on the challenges facing the journalistic profession and the newspaper business, trumped my interest in the ongoing conversation. Part Three of the documentary aired at the same time as the discussion on the East Coast.

[waterdogs]

The RealAudio version of the webcast can be found at

http://webcast.berkeley.edu/event_details....pp=15&category=

[johnnyd]

FYI: 2hrs & 4minutes

Excerpt below from article in Sustainable Food News.com, used by permission.

Mackey suggested that Tuesday's large and eager crowd was a result of the food-reform movement reaching a "tipping point, a critical consciousness level."

Pollan's "brilliant" book, as Mackey called it repeatedly, is both a product of and a catalyst for that movement, whose early adopters included California's "back to the land" hippies, the 1969 garden-planting rebels of Berkeley's People's Park, and local, seasonal food promoter Alice Waters, class of '67 and founder of Chez Panisse.

Many of these pivotal figures were in the audience, among them Waters and Bill Niman, whose humanely raised meat business, Niman Ranch, was built in the '70s with the assistance of UC Berkeley journalism dean Orville Schell.

Mackey's considerable challenge was to persuade Pollan and a skeptical audience that the company he founded in the '70s as Safer Way — and has patiently grown into a $5.6 billion-a-year, Fortune 500 business — still has the credibility and integrity to lead the food movement into this future.

As Mackey said in a Marketplace interview the day before the event, there’s always been an ongoing battle in organics, between what he called "the purists and the pragmatists." Pragmatists like him "want to spread organics to as many people as possible," a growth strategy that often requires compromise, while "the purists are very mistrustful of it being corrupted by agribusiness and big corporations."

When Mackey asked how many in Zellerbach Hall had read "The Omnivore's Dilemma," two out of three people raised their hands. Eleven months after its release, it has sold 174,000 copies, according to Bookscan. Pollan's views on Whole Foods thus spread like canola seed through the consciousness of the very people most likely to shop there.

Edited March 2, 2007 by johnnyd (log)

[Pontormo]

JohnnyD, you may be interested to know that Michael Pollan also intends to speak on the Farm Act: on March 21 at Berkeley.

Did no one watch?

One thing Pollan asked was if Mackey really felt Omnivore's Dilemma affected profits at Whole Foods. (Since I only caught bits and pieces of the event, I did not hear the rueful comment that motivated the question.)

Prodded, Mackey did seem serious despite the way he answered: "Cost [Whole Foods] around two billion...Easy come, easy go."

[ludja]

JohnnyD, you may be interested to know that Michael Pollan also intends to speak on the Farm Act: on March 21 at Berkeley.

Did no one watch?

One thing Pollan asked was if Mackey really felt Omnivore's Dilemma affected profits at Whole Foods.  (Since I only caught bits and pieces of the event, I did not hear the rueful comment that  motivated the question.) 

Prodded, Mackey did seem serious despite the way he answered: "Cost [Whole Foods] around two billion...Easy come, easy go."

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I need to find the right time at a faster connection to listen to the webcast.

Thanks for quotes/comments, JohnnyD and Pontormo.

It must have been a very interesting gathering with Waters and the rest of the Berkeley there especially if they scheduled time for questions from the audience.

[hathor]

Here's a mini-review of the interview from NY Magazine.

[Pontormo]

When you do get a chance to see the webcast, be patient. John Mackey gets to speak first since, as he put it, Michael Pollan's book takes around 18 hours to listen to in full, and he was able to negotiate only for 45 minutes to speak to the Berkeley audience before his exchange with his host.

He actually takes longer. Some of the rudimentary history of what he views as four ages of food acquisition seemed simplistic and superfluous--kind of a time-filler--at first. Yet I appreciated what everything in that presentation communicated about the CEO and what he views as a genuine personal and corporate mission. This is a quality of WFM that turns off some people, but it reminds me of what others find equally admirable or annoying--depending on your point of view--in Pollan's journalism. Mackey came across as a very likeable, self-deprecating guy and quite a few of his remarks won applause from the audience and appreciative laughter from Pollan.

What I really wanted to say, though, is that I enjoyed watching the way Pollan conducted the interview/conversation. He set up the event in Berkeley by flying down to Austin first to meet with John Mackey in response to an invitation from the CEO. They spoke for over an hour and a half. I gather that meeting made the public event at Berkeley less of a confrontational debate than it could have been otherwise.

At one point the subject of "Whole Paycheck" came up and as Mackey responded to that characterization of his company, he and Pollan found themselves in agreement on some fundamental issues. After all, Michael Pollan writes that he doesn't think that Americans, on average, spend enough on food when compared to others in the world, or Americans 30-40 years ago.

That consensus made Mackey open up more, especially when his host thanked him for helping our country get used to the idea that we should shell out more bucks for the meals we COOK. So the CEO began to say, "And we all know that Americans are getting richer..." only to be interrupted by a lot of hisses and boos from an audience whose political leanings, one might assume, are at odds with the libertarian guest on stage. He looked out at the audience, a bit uncomfortably, acknowledging the tension.

At this point, Pollan and Mackey were sitting across from one another. For all we know, the professor might make time in his schedule later on this month to attend a lecture at the law school where someone is speaking about the disappearing middle class. However, he continued to look at Mackey in the same attentive fashion. Even nodded encouragingly, without registering judgment, inviting Mackey to continue. It was more important for Pollan to hear where that observation was leading than to dismiss his guest's contention in a clever little remark. For that reason, Mackay restated his position, the audience calmed down, deciding it was important to listen, too, and the conversation went on.

This struck me as a useful strategy and not just a sign of Pollan's humanity. It made him a good host as well as a good journalist. This kind of interaction is something many of us can keep in mind when we think about and talk to each other about culinary matters.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[Pontormo]

Here's a mini-review of the interview from NY Magazine.

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Funny, the reviewer and I ended up talking about the same thing, but interpreted it differently. I got the impression that Pollan just wanted to make Mackey feel at ease, and therefore reveal more of himself than he would have had he encountered hostility on stage as well as in the audience. Call the promotional material more of the "Supermarket Pastoral" that Pollan writes about in OD, if you like, evidence that the characterization was just supported by the man who took issue with it.