ISO the perfect pizza crust at home

[rickmartin]

Maybe I skimmed through too quickly but I'm surprised I didn't read about retarding time for your dough. I mix my dough the day before, let it rise, punch it back, cover and refrigerate. In the morning I punch down and knead the dough adding some flour. Then refrigerate again for the day and pull it out a couple hours before needed then knead more. This process allows the flour to be reasonably digested adding an airy elasticity and chewyness as well as a slight sour flavor. If you let it go another day it gets even more sour. This dough is so easy and fun to handle and makes incredible pizza stone pizzas.

RM

[Kouign Aman]

When you say 15 min rising, are you talking about after you form the dough into a round?

I'm just starting to try to make a decent pizza, and had similar problems to the ones you describe, when I let the pizza round sit for a while, as I prepped the toppings.

Instead of a crust, it was a nice piece of bread by the time it finished baking. If I wanted a Bobboli crust, I'd buy Bobboli!

I'm eager to learn what solution finally gives you the pizza you are after.

[guzzirider]

When you say 15 min rising, are you talking about after you form the dough into a round?

I'm just starting to try to make a decent pizza, and had similar problems to the ones you describe, when I let the pizza round sit for a while, as  I prepped the toppings.

Instead of a crust, it was a nice piece of bread by the time it finished baking. If I wanted a Bobboli crust, I'd buy Bobboli!

I'm eager to learn what solution finally gives you the pizza you are after.

←

After stretching out the dough, I only let it sit long enough to put the toppings on it, then directly to the oven it goes.

__Jason

[Kouign Aman]

I preheat for about 30-60 mins, and let the dough rise while I'm preheating.

←

When you say 15 min rising, are you talking about after you form the dough into a round?

←

After stretching out the dough, I only let it sit long enough to put the toppings on it, then directly to the oven it goes.

__Jason

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My bad. I intended the Q for doctortim, and was going from memory of his recently read post, but when I reread, I see that he does let it rise.

Immediate toppage and heatage is the gameplan for next time, based on my own 'bready' experience, and confirmed by all the comments here.

[dhut]

Ever try cooking pizza outside on a gas grill? I wrap a chunk of wood in aluminum and place it over the burner for an added smokey flavor. I then put the stone on the grill and heat it. Then I put the pizza on the stone, close the lid and 7 minutes later its done.

[deltadoc]

Back in the late 60's at college, I found that one could make a fairly decent pie using an oldtime electric skillet with cover. Crust was nice and brown on the bottom, the toppings were cooked properly, and the sauce didn't dry out.

I don't even know if they make electric temperature controlled skillets anymore!

doc

[Baggy]

These are all great pointers.

I used to have major problems and it took ages to get the right weight of toppings and the right thickness of crust. Getting the right crunchiness of the crust also took some experimenting.

I bake pizza at around the same temperature as you 450-500F for 7 minutes with toppings less cheese. I then add the cheese so it’s not overcooked and dry. Total cooking time is usually around 11 minutes to get the cheese melted but not burned.

If you are cooking in an electric oven, you might check if the oven has a top heating element. With these higher temperatures, this element is switched on and acts like a toaster. In my electric oven I protect the pizza top by putting another shelf (covered with a cookie sheet) between the pizza and the roof of the oven. Works a treat.

[hummingbirdkiss]

oh might I add more?

for the dough

2 cups warm water

1 packet regular yeast

a pinch of sugar

4-6 (more or less) cups of unbleached white flour mixed with, 1 tbl of kosher salt, 1 tbl of either gluten or masa harina (the masa gives it an insanely good flavor and texture ( just enough to make a nice elastic but soft dough and it varies highly for me how much I use that is for sure ...I go by feel ....)

Need however you usually do ..I have done this in the food processor ..but moving it with my hands feels so much better!!!

I never put oil in my pizza dough ..but I sure as heck dump it on the outside! and dump a lot on top..I always fork the dough as well so the sauce and oil soak into the top and then you have the crispy bottom and the wonderful flavored top under the cheese...(I hope I am understandable! it is so hard to describe..what I mean by what I think is the texture of the perfect pizza!!! ) I love the way the crust tastes when the whole outside bottom and top edges are crispy with the flavor of the olive oil!

I am buying a stone today and can hardly wait to try to make my usual that way!!!

thanks for starting this thread it is really inspiring!!

Edited February 21, 2007 by hummingbirdkiss (log)

[MiFi]

My basic recipe has been the same for many years:

2 Cups of bread flour

1 Cup whole wheat flour

1 Cup of warm water

1 package active yeast

2 tsp. salt

2 tbls. extra virgin

Mix it all up, cover w/plastic, let is rise at least one hour (yes, I sometimes do this after work) or overnight in the fridge.

Patience in forming it by hand.

Topping I make while dough rises:

Pomi brand chopped tomatoes

Garlic

Extra Virgin

Hot pepper flakes

Salt

Mix it all up and let sit.

Results:

[project]

How I make pizza in a home oven is in

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...dpost&p=1087260

[djyee100]

I admit I'm puzzled by the problems you're having. If you're using a good pizza dough on a properly preheated stone in a 500 degree oven, your pizza should be great.

Many others have given you good pointers. This is all I can add:

- Are you using instant or rapid-rise yeast in large amts (e.g., one pkg) for your dough? Chef-teacher Joanne Weir once explained that instant yeast can rise so fast that the gluten does not develop properly in the dough, and it can be difficult to stretch. It doesn't taste so good either. Try using active dry yeast, which has a slower action. Alternatively, use very little yeast and allow the dough to rise overnight. I prefer the latter method myself. I use 1/4 tsp instant yeast per cup of flour. This makes a very tasty pizza crust.

- Is your pizza stone on the bottom shelf or floor of your oven? You don't say. When I use a pizza stone I preheat it on the bottom shelf for at least 45 mins at 500-525 degrees.

- I learned this technique from the wonderful people at the Cheese Board in Berkeley. I set one rack with the pizza stone at the bottom of the oven, and another rack at the top of the oven. First I bake the pizza on the bottom rack until the crust is nice and golden brown. Then I finish cooking for the last couple minutes on the top rack, which gilds the toppings. This technique is also described in the cookbook: The Cheese Board: Collective Works.

- On days when I cannot bear the thought of preheating a pizza stone, I use this technique learned from another wonderful teacher, Iole Aguero, who teaches in the Seattle area. Place the pizza on a baking sheet lined with parchment paper, and bake it on the bottom rack of a preheated oven until the crust is firm enough to hold its shape. Then slide the pizza off the baking sheet and finish baking on the bare rack of the oven. The crust will be golden brown and crispy, not as much as if baked with a stone, but better than if left on a baking sheet to cook. Caution: if you have too much topping on your pizza it will drip onto the floor of your oven and create a burned mess. Less is more. The baking parchment paper (the real thing, treated with silicone) will turn dark brown but will not burn unless it accidentally touches a heating element. So be careful.

- And finally, preheating your oven means preheating at the target temperature for at least 20 mins, yes?

[doctortim]

Thanks everyone for your help so far, I've learnt a lot. Many of these things I was doing already, so once I fixed what was probably my main problem it all came together into a wonderful, perfectly-cooked, delicious pizza. And that fatal flaw was... Not stretching the dough out thin enough. I thought I was stretching it out thin, but obviously it wasn't thin enough. Letting the dough rise for longer made the dough so much easier to stretch.

Now that I've got one successful pizza under my belt, I'm eager to try again. Next time it won't be eaten so quickly and maybe I'll get time to snap a couple of pictures.

By the way, in my journeys to make the perfect pizza I came across this magnificent site: Jeff Varasano's NY Pizza Recipe. This guy takes making pizza to a level of obsessiveness that is truly inspirational.

[guzzirider]

Glad to hear of your success, doctortim!

I just recently started making my own pizzas, and I'm finding it to be truly addictive. The possibilities of topping combinations is almost endless. When I make dough, I make enough for 3 pies, so I can spend 3 nights "experimenting"... as long as my wife doesn't get sick of eating pizza 3 nights a week (so far, so good!).

Here are my two most recent:

Shoot... now I'm making myself hungry...

__Jason

Edited February 23, 2007 by guzzirider (log)

[joesan]

Jason - they look truly delicious! What temperature do you cook them at?

[guzzirider]

Thanks!

My oven dial goes up to 550, but my oven thermometer shows it actually getting up to about 575.

__Jason

[ludja]

Thanks!

My oven dial goes up to 550, but my oven thermometer shows it actually getting up to about 575.

__Jason

←

The two pies look very nice; what are the toppings?

What are your favorite toppings so far?

Edited February 23, 2007 by ludja (log)

[qrn]

Thanks!

My oven dial goes up to 550, but my oven thermometer shows it actually getting up to about 575.

__Jason

←

Get the manual out on the oven and you have a +- 35º adjustment ...

I set mine so it gets upto 585º when I use a stone. Stone is on bottom shelf and is about 685º when the t-stat shuts it off on the preheat.. Thats when I put the pie in.

Usually I use a 14" squaare of 1/4 mild steel plate in place of the stone...It works much better. The steel holds more heat, and gives it up faster so the crust gets really crisp.

Bud

[guzzirider]

Thanks!

My oven dial goes up to 550, but my oven thermometer shows it actually getting up to about 575.

__Jason

←

The two pies look very nice; what are the toppings?

What are your favorite toppings so far?

←

The first one shown is scallop & bacon w/ a garlic cream sauce. The 2nd is just a simple margherita w/ fresh mozzarella and basil.

I need to tweak that garlic sauce - it tasted great, but was too thin. I think next time I'm going to try a bechamel based sauce, I think.

Picking a favorite topping is hard. A simple red pie with cheese and crumbled sweet italian sausage will always be a favorite. I also like ham & sundried tomatoes. I've got a list as long as my arm of potential toppings I want to try (white pie w/ onion confit & goat cheese?).

Hard to pick an overall favorite... really just depends on my mood.

__Jason

[guzzirider]

Thanks!

My oven dial goes up to 550, but my oven thermometer shows it actually getting up to about 575.

__Jason

←

Get the manual out on the oven and you have a +- 35º adjustment ...

I set mine so it gets upto 585º when I use a stone. Stone is on bottom shelf and is about 685º when the t-stat shuts it off on the preheat.. Thats when I put the pie in.

Usually I use a 14" squaare of 1/4 mild steel plate in place of the stone...It works much better. The steel holds more heat, and gives it up faster so the crust gets really crisp.

Bud

←

Hmmm... steel plate actually sounds like a good idea. I've been using unglazed quarry tile that I picked up at Lowes (see post #11 in this thread for a picture). So far, I've been pretty happy with that... and the price is right!

The Jeff Varasano link that doctortim posted above is interesting. That guy fiddled with his oven so that he can use the self-cleaning mode to cook pizza.... gets up to >900 degrees!

__Jason

[tim]

The Jeff Varasano link that doctortim posted above is interesting. That guy fiddled with his oven so that he can use the self-cleaning mode to cook pizza.... gets up to >900 degrees! 

__Jason

←

The Jeff Varasano link is wonderful.... Talk about commitment to good pizza.

Jeff looks like he has some nice eyebrows. That must be taken before he opens up that oven on the self-cleaning mode.

Tim

[qrn]

Thanks!

My oven dial goes up to 550, but my oven thermometer shows it actually getting up to about 575.

__Jason

←

Get the manual out on the oven and you have a +- 35º adjustment ...

I set mine so it gets upto 585º when I use a stone. Stone is on bottom shelf and is about 685º when the t-stat shuts it off on the preheat.. Thats when I put the pie in.

Usually I use a 14" squaare of 1/4 mild steel plate in place of the stone...It works much better. The steel holds more heat, and gives it up faster so the crust gets really crisp.

Bud

←

Hmmm... steel plate actually sounds like a good idea. I've been using unglazed quarry tile that I picked up at Lowes (see post #11 in this thread for a picture). So far, I've been pretty happy with that... and the price is right!

The Jeff Varasano link that doctortim posted above is interesting. That guy fiddled with his oven so that he can use the self-cleaning mode to cook pizza.... gets up to >900 degrees!

__Jason

←

The plate weighs 14 pounds and holds many more btu's than a ceramic will. it also conducts the heat faster to the crust than ceramic...If I put it on the bottom shelf and turn the oven on to pre heat, the plate will be close to 800º at t -stat shut off point,with the oven set to 550º. I never use the stone any more unless I am doing a pizza just after I baked bread, and its still hot..

Bud

[SuzySushi]

Oh, and for anyone else that's thinking of trying their hand at pizza (I'm relatively new at it myself!), but don't have a stone, I *highly* recommend picking up some UNGLAZED quarry tile from your local home improvement store. Cost me about $5 to line the entire bottom rack of my oven, and it works wonderfully!

__Jason

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Question to Jason and anyone else using quarry tiles in their oven: Do you leave them there all the time, or do you remove them (once they're cool) after baking pizza? If you leave them there all the time, can you place baking or roasting pans directly on the stones to bake cakes, roast meats, etc. or do you use a different rack above the stones?

[guzzirider]

Question to Jason and anyone else using quarry tiles in their oven: Do you leave them there all the time, or do you remove them (once they're cool) after baking pizza? If you leave them there all the time, can you place baking or roasting pans directly on the stones to bake cakes, roast meats, etc. or do you use a different rack above the stones?

←

I haven't had them in very long, but I'm planning to keep them in all the time. My thinking is that it may help the oven heat evenly. Assuming I don't need to use both racks, I can get away with just using the upper rack. Just need to be careful about items that might splatter or boil over onto the stones.

I'm not sure yet how it would work if I put a roasting pan or similar directly on the stones.

Hopefully, others will chime in with their experiences.

__Jason

[Baggy]

I used to use pizza stones. They all split, some on first time out, others took a couple of years. I found they lasted longer when I heated and cooled them a few times in the hottest oven before putting anything on the stone. Cold water, a full (cold) casserole, some icky stuff that escaped from an upper shelf – all caused the stones to crack.

I haven’t tried a heavier tile.

These days I use a heavy commercial baking sheet. Not quite the extreme of a 14lb piece of steel, but it works fine.

I also found that using a Teflon mat under the pizza helps. The Teflon transfers the heat quickly under the base, topping up the heat given off by the metal sheet.

On balance, I can see that the steam blown off during baking would be absorbed by a pizza stone but not by a steel sheet, so stone may well have the edge for crispness.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Baggy (log)

[K8memphis]

Having been inspired by this thread, I made four pizzas and this is what's leftover.

I used nice stoneground whole wheat flour for the crust. It was really nice & crispy and it was good for us too.

Two of them are hot Italian sausage with bell peppers and purple onions, one with red tomatoes and one with yellow tomaotes. Then there's a spinach with lots of garlic and feta cheese and tomatoes. The last one is spinach with regular pizza cheese & red tomatoes.

I blanched fresh tomatoes, skinned them, cored and slice off the top then just with my finger, remove the seeds and juice then sliced them--I use this in place of 'sauce'. Then I seasoned it all up, added toppings, brushed the crust with olive oil and sprinkled seasoning on it.

I read a few recipes and then made up the crust. I used 3 packges of yeast activated in 2 cups of water that had a squirt of honey in it. About 5 cups of nice stone ground whole wheat flour, an overflowing quarter cup of olive oil and two teaspoons of salt, probably should have used three teaspoons of salt and I grated a half of a small onion into the dough. I let it rise twice and I spread it out onto parchment paper by hand. Baked at 475 on the parchment (easier to handle) on a stone about 5 minutes without toppings, then 15 minutes with all the toppings.

It was just real casual with family so I just tossed 'em all out on the table. We had salad and wine Inama Vin Soave. A nice evening.