In-sink garbage disposals in NYC

[Fat Guy]

There are many culinary advantages to living in New York City, but there are disadvantages too. Small kitchens, in general, are a pain. But perhaps most annoying, for me, is the difficulty of acquiring an in-sink garbage disposal. Most apartment buildings simply won't allow them. I think at some time they were even against code, though I believe that changed awhile back. I know a few people who have them, usually in violation of the building's rules, but examples are few and far between.

The justification for no-disposal rules is that, in an apartment building, the consequences of a clogged drain can be significant. I wonder, though, is the evidence against these devices at all compelling? Don't they create a puree that's easily drained? And isn't it actually more likely that a solid chunk of drain-clogging debris will get down a normal drain than one equipped with a disposal?

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

I've never quite understood this, myself... I know that I have had FAR more troubles with clogged sink drains in houses without a disposer than in houses with them. I think they're pretty rare in Europe, too... would be interesting to know what the rationalization really is!

[weinoo]

Probably concern that people will throw stuff down there that, shall we say, is not food detritus!

[CaliPoutine]

All my life I've always had a garbage disposal. I grew up in Florida and California. When I moved to Ontario, Canada I was stunned to learn nobody has a disposal. I finally was at my first house that had one. The owner is a plumber.

[Marlene]

All my life I've always had a garbage disposal.  I grew up in Florida and California.  When I moved to Ontario, Canada I was stunned to learn nobody has a disposal.  I finally was at my first house that had one.  The owner is a plumber.

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I have one and so do most of my friends. Not sure why no one has them where you are.

[CaliPoutine]

All my life I've always had a garbage disposal.  I grew up in Florida and California.  When I moved to Ontario, Canada I was stunned to learn nobody has a disposal.  I finally was at my first house that had one.  The owner is a plumber.

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I have one and so do most of my friends. Not sure why no one has them where you are.

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This area isnt exactly "rich". It is pretty rural here. Although, my MIL lives in Goderich right on the lake and she doesnt have one either.

[cdh]

Some things really don't play well with disposals... as I learned years ago with artichoke trimmings. Fibrous things get chopped just fine enough to make a big tangled mass of drain clogging junk. Bad enough when it's your own drain that needs a serious snaking out. Much mush worse when it is a communal drain, I'd bet.

NYC's plumbing infrastructure is ancient, and it makes sense that in old buildings that aren't well taken care of (or new buildings plumbed on the cheap), disposals could create a giant headache.

[Marlene]

This area isnt exactly "rich".  It is pretty rural here.  Although, my MIL lives in Goderich right on the lake and she doesnt have one either.

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Maybe it's a suburban thing . Anyway, my point was that there are people in Ontario that do have them. They aren't completely unknown here.

[Fat Guy]

Some things really don't play well with disposals...  as I learned years ago with artichoke trimmings. 

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That may have been true of an earlier generation of disposals, and may be true of cheap ones today, but the good disposals they make now don't have any trouble with artichokes. I know that when the InSinkErator people demo their disposals at trade shows they run corncobs, potato peels, rib bones and artichokes through them. I guess it's just easier to ban them all than to require good ones.

[memesuze]

I thought the prohibition related to the inevitable "disposing" of grease products - which will clump up as they get lower in the pipes, no matter how "liquid" they were at the mouth of the disposer.

[Fat Guy]

Don't tons of people pour grease down their drains anyway?

[H. du Bois]

When I first moved here, I was told that they were illegal, due to the sewage issues that would be involved if 8.5 million people poured what is essentially puree down the drains. I don't know if that was true or not - I've never read it anywhere.

I do know that the plumbing in old buildings here can't handle the outflow from modern appliances. My building is an old Victorian structure, and we're forbidden by lease to have dishwashers or washing machines. Every time a tenant has tried to sneak in a washing machine, all of us end up with their detergent bubbles boiling up into our kitchen sinks via the drains - very gross.

[weinoo]

Don't tons of people pour grease down their drains anyway?

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Shhhhhhhhhhhh.

[adegiulio]

Some things really don't play well with disposals...  as I learned years ago with artichoke trimmings. 

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That may have been true of an earlier generation of disposals, and may be true of cheap ones today, but the good disposals they make now don't have any trouble with artichokes. I know that when the InSinkErator people demo their disposals at trade shows they run corncobs, potato peels, rib bones and artichokes through them. I guess it's just easier to ban them all than to require good ones.

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It isn't necessarily getting through the disposal that is the problem. Artichoke trimmings, shrimp shells, potato peels will pass through the disposal without a problem, but will accumulate down the line, usually at a point of constriction. All three have caused clogs in my drain past the disposal. Fortunately, the blockage occurred at the trap, or right before the trap, which made clearing it easy. I wouldn't want to be the person responsible for a nice fibrous clog in my apartment building.

[TAPrice]

Didn't Joan Didion once write that New York's lack of garbage disposals was another reason that California was superior?

[slkinsey]

I always though that the citywide prohibition against garbage disposals was an environmental thing, and secondarily an infrastructure thing (handling the increased waste). Of course, plenty of NYers flush all kinds of things down the toilet that might previously have gone through a disposal.

Anyway, with respect to landlords, when the building has old pipes (many of them 100+ years old) and when the tenants are largely used to getting by without a garbage disposal, it's easier and cheaper to simply say they aren't allowed. Because of the rent regulations in New York City, it's advantageous for the landlord to turn over the lease frequently anyway.

[H. du Bois]

Didn't Joan Didion once write that New York's lack of garbage disposals was another reason that California was superior?

New Yorkers would contend that garbage disposals might be the only thing that could ever make Californians feel superior.

[slkinsey]

As chance would have it, there is a New York Times article about this, dating to 1997.

concerns have been raised ... about widespread use of the units in multifamily dwellings, particularly older buildings. The most common concern ... is that use of the garbage-disposal units might increase both water usage and the amount of semisolid waste passing through aging, sluggish plumbing systems -- a combination that might be too much for some systems to handle.

However, according to the manufacturers it would seem that there is not much room for concern. They say that the waste is ground down to a "silt like consistency" by modern disposals, and that the use of extra water is minimal. They test those things using 35 pounds of frozen spare ribs! Pretty cool.

In a study conducted by the New York City Department of Environmental Protection in which waste-disposal units were installed in multifamily buildings in Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan, the department concluded that even with the ''worst case'' assumption of 38 percent of households using disposal units by the year 2035, the increase in water usage attributable to the units would amount to about one gallon per household each day. The study also concluded that the impact of additional solid waste being diverted into the city's sanitary system -- and eventually into surrounding waters - would have a minimal impact on water quality. At the same time, the report indicated, the reduction in food waste diverted from household refuse collection would ''make a positive impact'' on the city's residential waste management efforts.

It was that study, published last June, that provided City Council members with the evidence they needed to abolish the existing ban on waste-disposal units.

This article strengthens my feeling that landlords and co-op boards aren't allowing them primarily because they figure "people have been getting along without them fine, so why take the risk, however minimal?"

Edited February 20, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[JohnL]

Last night while channel surfing I, for some reason, was intrigued by a segment on garbage disposals on the Food Network. (I don't know what program).

I believe the Sinkerator company was featured--they seem to have a large market share of these things.

Anyway--what was interesting is the fact that garbage disposals (in sink) do not "chop" the food up--there are no blades.

Amazingly the disposal acts as sort of a centrifuge and the food/garbage is sort of spun up against the walls of a spinning cylinder at very high speed. These walls have an abrasive aspect and the food is literally pulverized into small particles.

The testing at the factory involves successfully "pulverizing" items like beef bones.

It was pretty fascinating for an info junkie like me at least!

[adegiulio]

It might seem that any machine that can pulverize ribs should have no problem with other, softer solids. As noted, disposals don't have blades like a blender, they just have a series of rotating "blocks" (i can't think of a way to describe them effectively) that spins the food waste around until it exits through a port. So, while this might work for a rib, the action is less effective on other wastes, like potato skins and artichoke fibers. These things simply get spun out the port before they have really had a chance to be pulverized. Then, do to their non-slickerieness they accumulate in corners, traps, and other spots prone to clogs.

Dont believe me? Take some artichoke or potato trimmings and pop them in a blender with a lot of water. Process them for a few seconds then pour into a strainer...

[slkinsey]

InSinkErator's new models feature a multi-stage grinding system that they say handles "difficult food waste, such as beef bones, corn husks, potato skins and artichoke remnants."

[adegiulio]

InSinkErator's new models feature a multi-stage grinding system that they say handles "difficult food waste, such as beef bones, corn husks, potato skins and artichoke remnants."

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Yeah, well, with all due respect to the Insinkerator Company, they claimed that the same food waste wouldn't be a problem in the one I installed a year and a half ago. Unfortunately, their marketing efforts are stronger than their engineering. Maybe this new line will be the epiphany that all garbage disposal users are looking for...

[Pan]

[...]Every time a tenant has tried to sneak in a washing machine, all of us end up with their detergent bubbles boiling up into our kitchen sinks via the drains - very gross.

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That's been a chronic problem for years at my parents' place on West End Avenue, after some of the co-opers violated the supposed terms of their membership by installing their own washing machines and not using the ones in the basement. The clean dishes in the drying rack would become all sudsy.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Pan (log)