Gelatinous Meat Stock -- Is this normal?

[conor610]

So last night I (finally) made my first-ever batch of chicken stock--strained it, ran it through a coffee filter, etc--and when I went to defat it this morning, there was very little fat on top, but the whole bowl o' stock had taken on a loose gelatin consistency--almost as if I had made Jell-O with half the gelatin called for. Is this a problem for future use--ie, should I thin it with water when I re-heat it--or is it totally normal and not a problem? Also, how will freezing affect its consistency?

Sorry for what I'm sure is a very basic question!

[ryanj]

You made a good stock. The gelatin in the bones adds not only flavor, but a nice viscosity. You want that gelatin in your stock. It will loosen when its heated, and the flavor is probably where it should be of your stock based on your description. Adding water will dilute the flavo. I usually reduce my stock to a demi, where it is nape (coats a spoon) when heated, and thin it out as needed. It saves valuable storage space.

[conor610]

Thanks! Good to get feedback from a pro. I do think I added too much mirepoix (or just had it in the stock for too long)--the stock has a pronounced vegetal flavor--but for a first try I'm quite pleased.

[MaryMc]

What ryanj said...plus, it should freeze just fine. That's how my newly-made stock comes out after refrigerating overnight. After skimming I freeze it in 1-cup portions in Ziplock bags (plus an ice tray full--the cubes are about 1 oz. each). I usually nuke it in a Pyrex measuring cup when I want to use it, and it thaws to a liquid consistency.

[AnnaC]

I agree! I think you'll be pleased with how easy your gelatinous stock will make it to construct lovely pan sauces - no more wondra flour for you!

[Ndy]

the gelatin consistency is actually a sign of a good stock. Congrats on your first one!

[dockhl]

Good job !

What maryMc said about ziplocks...........

if you squeeze as much of the air out as possible , you can lay them flat in the freezer (to freezer) and then have very thin bags . Good for storage and thaw really quickly !

[monavano]

Wow, a great stock on the first try! It took me a long time to really get what makes a stock good and I'm finally turning out gelatinous chicken stock. Bones and cartilage is where it's at.

[FoodMuse]

Makes me realize I should make a stock soon. Thanks for reminding me.

-Grace

[Qwerty]

The idea that a stock should have an extremely strong flavor is not quite true. What a stock should have is a fairly neutral flavor and a great deal of body. The idea is that the stock is flavored by whatever you add to it later on--meat trimmings, game bones, wine, aromatics, etc...

A broth is a little bit different...a broth is really made with meat and/or meat trimmings and is meant to be very flavorful. If you are making a chicken soup, for example, you want a broth or a broth/stock hybrid. The broth/stock hybrid is really what most home cooks make at home...usually because there is abundance of both at home. If you make your chicken "stock" with cut up chicken carcass, meat and all, you are really making a broth/stock.

I'm not implying that there is something wrong with this, not at all, but just keep in mind that a true stock isn't supposed to taste strongly of animal meat.

[lauraf]

I usually make chicken stock with the leftover carcass from a roast, without much meat left on the bones. Recently I had some leftover raw chicken pieces with quite a lot of meat on the bones, and figured I make a stock with that, and I read a couple of cookbooks that suggest reserving the cooked chicken meat for chicken salad or whatnot. But boiled chicken tastes - well, that's the point. It didn't have any taste.

Is there any way to make stock with meat on the bones and still have palatable meat? I hate the waste (although actually my cats were quite happy, so I suppose I saved $3 on tinned cat food ).

[Pam R]

I did a side-by-side test. A pot with chicken bones, necks and wings vs. a pot with soup chicken (mature, stewing). They tasted almost identical.

But, we use chicken with the meat to make soup at work and then use the meat to make chicken pot pies, kreplach or meat knishes.

[lauraf]

I did a side-by-side test. A pot with chicken bones, necks and wings vs. a pot with soup chicken (mature, stewing).  They tasted almost identical.

But, we use chicken with the meat to make soup at work and then use the meat to make chicken pot pies, kreplach or meat  knishes.

←

I would do the same thing with the leftover meat, like I do with leftover roasted chicken. But my chicken meat was tasteless after simmering overnight. Perhaps the heat was too high? Too much boil, not so much poach? Or should I simmer for a much shorter period of time if using bones with substantial meat on them?

[JAZ]

Is there any way to make stock with meat on the bones and still have palatable meat?  I hate the waste (although actually my cats were quite happy, so I suppose I saved $3 on tinned cat food  ).

←

I used to be able to buy bags of chicken backs from my neighborhood butcher when I made stock, but now I have to rely on the backs of the chickens I butterfly for roasting, plus any leftover bones I have frozen from various uses. Since I usually don't have enough, I often augment them with a whole chicken. After some trial and error, what I've ended up doing is cooking everything at a low simmer (skimming as necessary) until the meat on the whole chicken is cooked. I remove the whole chicken (leaving everything else in the pot simmering) and let cool enough to handle. I pull off the breast meat and thighs and throw the rest of the carcass back in the pot. That way I have some chicken meat that's not cooked to death and still has flavor, but I also have a carcass, plus the wings and legs to contribute their all to the stock. It's a compromise, of course, but it works for me.

[maggiethecat]

It's a compromise, of course, but it works for me.

It works for me too. I have a container in the freezer to which I contribute the odd backs, wing tips, ribs, etc from chicken meals. (Also mushroom stems and parsley stems.) When whole chickens go on sale I toss a whole biddy in with the trimmings and pull it when it's gently poached and succulent. Strip off the breast and thigh meat for innumerable lovely preparations, and throw the rest back in the pot to add savor to the stock.

[Pam R]

We sell chicken bones, wings, necks, etc. So I just grab a bunch when I want soup/stock. If we had feet, I'd add them for a really gelatinous stock. But I sometimes add some legs (younger, for roasting) and simmer until the meat is just done. Pull the meat off and return the bones to the pot.

For something like a knish filling, you'll process or grind the meat and add some potato and caramelized onions -- and the cooked to death stuff works just fine.

[lauraf]

Thanks, ladies, for the advice on how to do a slow-simmer stock while still having tasty chicken meat for other dishes. My favourite use for previously cooked chicken is for chicken pot pies that I make by the half-dozen, then freeze for one of those nights when you are way too tired to cook, didn't think about picking anything up on the way home from work, and then, cool! - look in your freezer at a delish home-cooked chicken pie with puff pastry that only needs twenty minutes in your oven!

[dockhl]

Laura~

That sounds great. Do you have a recipe? Pictures?

[lauraf]

Laura~

That sounds great. Do you have a recipe? Pictures?

←

Umm, it's based on a recipe from the New Basics by Rosso and Lukins - but I change it up and use other stuff. Here goes: these portions are for four individual pies.

some good chicken stock - 2 1/2 - 3 cups?

one large onion, or if you want to get fancy, one cup pearl onions

about 3 cups of mixed vegetables - carrots, snap peas, mushrooms, zucchini, broccoli florets - whatever you like - I've also used corn kernels, frozen peas

some fresh rosemary sprigs

3 tablespoons butter

3 tablespoons flour

some white wine or sherry (optional)

some veal demi-glace (optional)

1 package puff pastry - or make your own!

about 3 cups of cooked chicken meat, cut into 1-in peices

1 egg

A) PREP VEGETABLES: Chop all the vegetables into bit sized pieces and cook - I'll either sautee everything, starting with the onion, then carrots, zucchini, or broccoli, or gently boil the vegetables until soft - 5-8 minutes, in some of the chicken stock with a sprig of rosemary. If boiling, drain and reserve liquid, discard rosemary sprig.

B) MAKE SAUCE: Melt the butter in a saucepan over medium-low heat, add the flour and whisk together to make a roux. Add reserved vegetable liquid/chicken stock slowly, and whisk constantly, about 5 minutes. Add a splash of white wine or sherry, and a tablespoon or two of the veal demi-glace. (I love veal demi-glace for sauces, particularly if I'm stuck using a particularly bland chicken stock. But some salt and pepper and Worchestershire will also help.) Continue stirring until thickened. Add a spring of rosemary, cover, and set aside to cool.

C)ASSEMBLE: Butter four 2-cup individual ramekins. Place an equal portion of chicken in each; do the same with the mixed vegetables. Pour sauce over each ramekin, insert half a sprig rosemary into each, cover and refrigerate.

Roll out puff pastry to a rectangle 1/4-in thick, cut into four squares. Whisk egg with 1 teaspoon of water. Brush edges of ramekins with egg mixture, and place rectangle of pastry on top. Drape excess dough over the sides and press to seal. Trim if necessary. Chill in freezer for 20 minutes.

At this point, you can wrap them well and freeze*, or you can take them out, pop them into a 475F oven, and bake until pastry in puffed and golden, approx. 15-18 mins. Serve immediately in the ramekins.

*On a crappy, exhausting day in the future that I don't yet know about, I'll pop one straight from the freezer into the oven - I give it an extra five minutes at the end at 300F to warm everything through but not burn the crust. It's the best of both worlds: savoury, soupy, saucy food, encased in decadent puff pastry!

.

[dockhl]

Sounds yummy. Do you freeze them IN the ramekins?

[lauraf]

Sounds yummy. Do you freeze them IN the ramekins?

←

Absolutely. I put each ramekin in a large freezer bag, usually, and then take them directly from freezer to a pre-heated oven so the puff pastry doesn't start to sag before 'puffing'. These are fluted ramekins that hold about 2-cups plus liquid, and were quite inexpensive, but are dishwasher- and oven-proof.

[quattro]

I'm glad I found this topic. All this time, i've been making chicken broth rather than chicken stock and didn't even know there was a difference. The one time I used exclusively chicken backs and the stock came out gelatinous, I thought I had screwed it up

[lauraf]

On the broth vs. stock difference: what dish preps should one use chicken broth for, as opposed to chicken stock? I grew up on canned chicken broth for everything from soup to gravy to cooking rice. The last few years I've been making my own, ermmm, stoth (because it seems I too am making a stock/broth combo) but aspire now to making a real stock versus a real broth and reaping the full cooking benefits from each.

[monavano]

I made some chicken stock this past weekend and thought I'd share some observations. I used all the same ingredients; wings, necks, herbs, spices, vegetables.

I put the chicken parts only in cold water and brought to a boil, at which point I skimmed a lot of scum. Then the rest of the ingredients went in and I simmered it all for 4 hours. Drained, strained, and refrigerated until the next day when I removed fat.

What I noticed was that it wasn't as gelatinous as the last time I made it. The big difference was that last time, I seasoned and browned the wings before cooking and then made the stock and put the whole kittenkaboodle in the fridge overnight, after simmering. The next day, I skimmed the fat and then heated a tad to remove the solids.

The resulting broth was fabulously gelatinous when I let everthing sit overnight.

Next time I will go back to this method to retest. My stock this time is very tasty (once salted) and deep golden, but it lacks texture when cooled down.

Just thought I'd share and see if anyone has more insight. I know my successful method is not conventional....but it works

Edited February 20, 2008 by monavano (log)

[Katie Meadow]

The idea that a stock should have an extremely strong flavor is not quite true. What a stock should have is a fairly neutral flavor and a great deal of body. The idea is that the stock is flavored by whatever you add to it later on--meat trimmings, game bones, wine, aromatics, etc...

A broth is a little bit different...a broth is really made with meat and/or meat trimmings and is meant to be very flavorful. If you are making a chicken soup, for example, you want a broth or a broth/stock hybrid. The broth/stock hybrid is really what most home cooks make at home...usually because there is abundance of both at home. If you make your chicken "stock" with cut up chicken carcass, meat and all, you are really making a broth/stock.

I'm not implying that there is something wrong with this, not at all, but just keep in mind that a true stock isn't supposed to taste strongly of animal meat.

←

This is a great clarification, and is pretty much the way a recent issue of Fine Cooking describes the difference. Broth/stock is what I usually do, since I make soup all the time and never make sauces that call for stock or stock reductions. If I happen to have a cut marrow bone or veal knuckle in the freezer I will throw it into the chicken pot; it doesn't change the rich chickeny flavor, but adds depth and must add to the gelatin.

Upthread I noted that some suggested cooking times for chicken stock are quite long, indicating perhaps it would help to have more meat in the pot or less water to start with. A lot of water and only wings and backs will yield a pretty mild broth, so you might need to continue cooking if only to evaporate the liquid and concentrate the flavor. I use a really big pot, one whole chicken, 2 lbs of feet and 2 lbs of backs. I simmer it for about 2.5 hours, always uncovered (because Julia says so.) In my experience that's enough time to wring out all the flavor from the ingredients, at least with chicken, since those old 7 lb stewing birds have gone the way of the dinosaurs. Meat stock I cook longer.

If I plan to make a soup with chicken meat in it, after about a half hour or 45 minutes I simply yank off the thighs and part of the breast and reserve that meat til later. If I was smart I would quarter the chicken before I put it in the pot, but I admit to a little squeamishness about handling raw chicken.

Put me squarely in the camp of chicken feet. I can't say enough good things about them. 'Member the story of Baba Yaga? The old Russian witch who lived in the forest in a log cabin that walked on chicken feet? Very good real estate, that. Her idea of slow food was....well, not as appetizing as home made chicken soup.