Chinese woks and cleavers

[leviathan]

I wasn't sure if this topic belonged in this subforum or the kitchen tools but are there any particular brands you'd recommend for Chinese equipment such as woks and cleavesr for Chinese cooking? Is there a Chinese All-Clad version, or a Chinese brand that's considered the best value? The only brand I've heard of is Joyce Chen's, but I live in SoCal so I have access to ethnic stores and shops. And, has anybody seen America's Test Kitchen recommendations, and do you agree with them? I was thinking of buying their Chinese book just for their recommendations, but I think they were probably limited to what was available to them.

[sheetz]

The best cooking setup is going to be an inexpensive carbon steel wok coupled with a high powered burner. Ah Leung has a pictorial about choosing a wok. Regarding cleavers, I understand the Dexter/Russell cleaver is a very high quality knife.

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.a...%26ei%3Dutf%2D8

I've heard there are good Chinese brands, as well.

Re: America's Test Kitchen, if they are anything like Cook's Illustrated, then I'm convinced they don't know sh*t about Chinese cooking. It's like the people who developed their recipes have never cooked Chinese food before in their lives.

Edited February 4, 2007 by sheetz (log)

[WHT]

Go to your Asian market and speak to them. They should not only be able to guide you but you will save some $$$. My wok and cleaver was less than $30.00.

[menon1971]

I bought an ugly but quite functional "Three Rams" cleaver from a Vietnamese fishmonger who told me his secret for brewing great green tea and who hates Jane Fonda; the cleaver was $8.

[Ben Hong]

Re: America's Test Kitchen, if they are anything like Cook's Illustrated, then I'm convinced they don't know sh*t about Chinese cooking. It's like the people who developed their recipes have never cooked Chinese food before in their lives.

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Right on, Brother!!

Seriously speaking, if you are spending more than $25-$30 on a cleaver and wok combo, you aren't shopping at an Asian store.

[WHT]

Re: America's Test Kitchen, if they are anything like Cook's Illustrated, then I'm convinced they don't know sh*t about Chinese cooking. It's like the people who developed their recipes have never cooked Chinese food before in their lives.

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Right on, Brother!!

Seriously speaking, if you are spending more than $25-$30 on a cleaver and wok combo, you aren't shopping at an Asian store.

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It was over 10 years ago and I do think other items where involved. I do remember that the cost from the medium cleaver to the larger one was negligable. I still go there for items and bambo scewers that cost $2.00 at the mart are like $0.70 for like 50.

[hzrt8w]

I wasn't sure if this topic belonged in this subforum or the kitchen tools but are there any particular brands you'd recommend for Chinese equipment such as woks and cleavesr for Chinese cooking?

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Here are some old posts and subsequent replies on cleavers:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...dpost&p=1186684

Here is an old post on shopping for a wok and where I bought mine. (Note: I don't like the manager at The Wok Shop! )

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=85547

P.S.: Welcome to the China forum!

Edited February 4, 2007 by hzrt8w (log)

[leviathan]

I wasn't sure if this topic belonged in this subforum or the kitchen tools but are there any particular brands you'd recommend for Chinese equipment such as woks and cleavesr for Chinese cooking?

←

Here are some old posts and subsequent replies on cleavers:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...dpost&p=1186684

Here is an old post on shopping for a wok and where I bought mine. (Note: I don't like the manager at The Wok Shop! )

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=85547

P.S.: Welcome to the China forum!

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Thanks for the warm welcome, and the threads. In the Cali forum, I noticed that you were down in SoCal and ate at A&J, which used to one of my favorite Chinese places to eat in SoCal. Did you get to eat at Small Wei in Huntington Beach? It is a minor tragedy what happened to the place, which was IMHO, one of the best Chinese places in all of Orange County.

I found a Cooking Illustrated, aka America's Test Kitchen, book to look at its equipment recommendations for a wok. Yet, it didn't really recommend any brands so I guess they don't really recommend one for the american cook. If the wok won't work in a american kitchen, could you get the same dishes simply by using a frying pan and sauteing your dishes. It seems like they're doing the same thing.

[Dejah]

Woks are not brand driven. Just go to Chinatown and buy the basic spun carbon steel wok, or if you're strong, the cast iron one.

If you check thru' hzrt's Chinese cooking tutorials, you'll see he's just graduated to a wok! Most of his food had been cooked in a deep fry pan prior to his wok.

Both of mine are from Wal-Mart.

[Ben Hong]

If the wok won't work in a american kitchen, could you get the same dishes simply by using a frying pan and sauteing your dishes. It seems like they're doing the same thing.

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With an electric burner and you are cooking a single serving, the fry pan is my preferred utensil. It gets heated more uniformly and hotter than a wok would.

[hzrt8w]

Did you get to eat at Small Wei in Huntington Beach? It is a minor tragedy what happened to the place, which was IMHO, one of the best Chinese places in all of Orange County.

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No I didn't know about Small Wei at all, sorry.

As for pan versus wok... if you have a frying pan already, just use it to start cooking Chinese food and take your time to buy a wok. I have been using my 2 frying pans for the past 20 years to cook my Chinese food at home.

Do the "mind over matter" thing, you know? Frying pan would work just fine unless you have a >50000 BTU wok burner.

[sheetz]

I used to use a cast iron skillet on a weak electric burner with good results. I now how have a stronger burner and use a flat bottomed carbon steel wok. The problem with Cook's Illustrated is that they recommend a NONSTICK frying pan for stir frying, which I would definitely NOT recommend. For stir frying you will often be using very high heat, so a nonstick surface will be destroyed in no time.

[Ben Hong]

The problem with Cook's Illustrated is that they recommend a NONSTICK frying pan for stir frying, which I would definitely NOT recommend. For stir frying you will often be using very high heat, so a nonstick surface will be destroyed in no time.

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Not only that but it is almost impossible to achieve wok hei with a non-stick wok or pan. Neither are they good to get a proper fond.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Ben Hong (log)

[Habeas Brulee]

My wok was originally non-stick, back when my partner first bought it (long before we started dating or moved in together). The non-stick coating peeled off over time, and was basically gone by the time it entered my kitchen.

I scrubbed off the rust and nastiness that was left, and set about re-seasoning the no-longer-non-stick wok myself. It's my project to keep this thing alive and make a good, useful tool out of it. Sure, a new wok would be cheap enough to buy, but I feel so much better putting in the work to reclaim the old one.

It's developing a good layer of seasoning, and it works beautifully. So, point being, doesn't matter what sort of wok you get, really. If I could reclaim this old wreck and work well with it, you can work well with just about anything.

I swear, I coddle this wok like a baby, feeding it fats and wiping it clean and taking extra care with it. It's such a weirdly pleasurable project.

[sizzleteeth]

I wasn't sure if this topic belonged in this subforum or the kitchen tools but are there any particular brands you'd recommend for Chinese equipment such as woks and cleavesr for Chinese cooking? Is there a Chinese All-Clad version, or a Chinese brand that's considered the best value? The only brand I've heard of is Joyce Chen's, but I live in SoCal so I have access to ethnic stores and shops. And, has anybody seen America's Test Kitchen recommendations, and do you agree with them? I was thinking of buying their Chinese book just for their recommendations, but I think they were probably limited to what was available to them.

←

There is an excellent Asian restaurant supply store on Valley Blvd a few steps from Sam Woo BBQ run by Cantonese.

T and T Restaurant Supplies

530 West Valley Boulevard

Alhambra, CA 91803-322

They have an enormous selection of reasonably priced woks from small to huge and an equally large selection of cleavers - from your standard Myland varieties to the hand made sort. As well as just about anything else you might want.

[budrichard]

I use a Wusthof Chinese Chef's Knife # 4688. It is NOT a cleaver but for delicate work it is the best I have found. It is also NOT cheap but will last a lifetime. For chopping I use dedicated Wusthof Cleavers of different blade thickness depending on how heavy the bones are that i am cleaving. I have a Falk copper wok that works great except for very large amounts i have to turn to a Chinese wok. -Dick

[ojisan]

For great info on cleavers (or any kitchen knives), go to knifeforums.com:

http://knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/

but be forewarned - the forum can become addicting.

[leviathan]

There is an excellent Asian restaurant supply store on Valley Blvd a few steps from Sam Woo BBQ run by Cantonese.

T and T Restaurant Supplies

530 West Valley Boulevard

Alhambra, CA 91803-322

They have an enormous selection of reasonably priced woks from small to huge and an equally large selection of cleavers - from your standard Myland varieties to the hand made sort. As well as just about anything else you might want.

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Thanks for the recommendation. I stopped by this shop this weekend, but I didn't really a get chance to look around since I had to hurry up and meet somebody for lunch. They had a bunch of cleaves, maybe 7 or 8 different ones, including a Chan Chi Kee cleaver as well as some other cleavers whose names were in Chinese. I probably would have gotten the CCK but its shape wasn't a sterotypical rectangle shape and I didn't have time for the owner there to translate all various things in Chinese to help determine which one I wanted. I'm assuming that since it wasn't a rectangle that it was probably a cleaver for boning but I'll have to finish up reading Barbara Tropp's book to know. The store was selling the CCK cleaver for around $32 so I'm not sure if that's the same one mentioned in the cleaver thread since they mentioned you could get that for $10 in HK. I must have missed the woks. Everything else I saw were things you'd see in a typical restaurant supply store for westerners.

I also stopped by Williams-Sonoma, the toy store for adults, at the South Coast Plaza for a class on Chinese wok cooking. In the store, I saw that it was selling two All-Clad woks, a stainless steel one and another All-Clad wok with a copper core for over three hundred dollars!!

I understand that since its almost Chinese News Year, WS is trying to position itself to take advantage of that by selling Chinese ingredients (although, it failed in some regards since they didn't have any bamboo steams in stock). But, really- they were selling schezuan peppers in a very small box for $16 when I can get those for over a dollar at the Ranch 99 and sesame seed oil for $14. I just find it hard to believe that there's going to be any difference between those schezuan peppers at WS and the Ranch 99. If anything, the Ranch 99 ones are probably going to be fresher since there's more turn around.

I don't necessairly mind paying more for better service, but it just didn't seem the WS people knew a lot about Chinese products even though they were giving a class on it. It just seemed they were doing a lot of things wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they should have been using peanut oil instead of canola oil. And, when I asked them about seasoning woks and about how western kitchens don't get hot enough to use a wok, they had no idea what I was talking about. A manager, who wasn't teaching the class, piped in that you wouldn't need to season the woks since these woks WS were selling weren't cast iron.

Edited February 12, 2007 by leviathan (log)

[hzrt8w]

I also stopped by Williams-Sonoma, the toy store for adults, at the South Coast Plaza for a class on Chinese wok cooking. In the store, I saw that it was selling two All-Clad woks, a stainless steel one and another All-Clad wok with a copper core for over three hundred dollars!!

I understand that since its almost Chinese News Year, WS is trying to position itself to take advantage of that by selling Chinese ingredients (although, it failed in some regards since they didn't have any bamboo steams in stock). But, really- they were selling schezuan peppers in a very small box for $16 when I can get those for over a dollar at the Ranch 99 and sesame seed oil for $14. I just find it hard to believe that there's going to be any difference between those schezuan peppers at WS and the Ranch 99. .....

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To me, Williams-Sonoma is for people who fly first class and stay in 5-star+ hotels, and who just want to shop something as a gift to bring home. They seem one grade higher than Sur La Table. Not for me, the common.

I wouldn't expect the workers there to know a lot about Chinese woks and seasoning. Learning how to sell to "high end" customers is tough enough...

[sizzleteeth]

Thanks for the recommendation. I stopped by this shop this weekend, but I didn't really a get chance to look around since I had to hurry up and meet somebody for lunch.

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I am sorry to hear that, I have been there a few times and it does take some time to look through everything. The woks are in the back left hand corner along the left and back walls - all different sizes - most stacked and wrapped loosely in plastic - some of the biggest I've ever seen. The cleavers at the end of the main aisle on the other side of all the butcher's blocks, though I remember many more varieties than you speak of out on display and several more in boxes.

They do have quite a bit of Western restaurant supplies like meat slicers/grinders but I'm surprised to hear you say that was most of what you saw.

It makes me wonder if I didn't accidentally send you to the wrong place - as I looked up the address on Google Maps based on it's proximity to Garfield and Sam Woo - I never bothered to actually look at the name or address when being there.

I'll stop by and make sure.

[leviathan]

To me, Williams-Sonoma is for people who fly first class and stay in 5-star+ hotels, and who just want to shop something as a gift to bring home.  They seem one grade higher than Sur La Table.  Not for me, the common.

I wouldn't expect the workers there to know a lot about Chinese woks and seasoning.  Learning how to sell to "high end" customers is tough enough...

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I wonder if the people who buy from WS actually end up cooking after buying all those toys, or if they just end up going out all the time to eat. If you can afford to regularly buy items at WS, then you're probably spending too much time at work to afford those items and therefore might not really have time to cook. There's probably a lot of fancy kitchens with top line items that probably don't even really get touched.

So, do you know if the WS people were correct in that you don't need to season All-Clad woks?

[sizzleteeth]

So, do you know if the WS people were correct in that you don't need to season All-Clad woks?

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All-Clad woks are not carbon steel - they are the same multi-ply construction as the pans, SS-Aluminum-SS - so they would not need seasoning and will not rust.

The kind of wok you are looking for, a standard carbon steel wok, does and will.

You can find Taiwanese made sometimes even at 99 Ranch Market and believe it or not - even the Martha Stewart collection carbon steel woks at K-Mart are not bad at all - though they are just made in Taiwan and packaged by Martha Stewart - they are about $20 - (though they are flat bottomed and do not require a ring).

Scrub off the protective coating with soap and hot water - season and go.

Stay away from anything "non-stick" - just basic carbon steel - which is more difficult to find these days than they should be - Teflon coated crap is everywhere.

Edited February 12, 2007 by sizzleteeth (log)

[sheetz]

A manager, who wasn't teaching the class, piped in that you wouldn't need to season the woks since these woks WS were selling weren't cast iron.

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I think you're talking about the All Clad chef's pans, which are essentially flat bottomed woks. We got one for my mom as a present and I think it works pretty well for what it is. And it's true that you wouldn't season these because the cooking surface is stainless. You would only season carbon steel or cast iron.

Edited February 12, 2007 by sheetz (log)

[sizzleteeth]

I think you're talking about the All Clad chef's pans, which are essentially flat bottomed woks. We got one for my mom as a present and I think it works pretty well for what it is. And it's true that you wouldn't season these because the cooking surface is stainless. You would only season carbon steel or cast iron.

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Here is the All-Clad take on woks:

http://www.chefsresource.com/all-clad-round-bottom-wok.html

[leviathan]

All-Clad woks are not carbon steel - they are the same multi-ply construction as the pans, SS-Aluminum-SS - so they would not need seasoning and will not rust.

The kind of wok you are looking for, a standard carbon steel wok, does and will.

I'm not going to buy All-Clad woks because of the price. But, if price was no problem, would this SS-Aluminum-SS construction be superior to the standard carbon steel wok?