Critics and Food Writers

[erica graham]

That sound like our local one, at the same time as reviewing, they try to get you to place an advert on the opposite page for vast amounts of money!!! And then they still write a load of nonsense after you think you've virtually paid for a decent review....and before you ask, no I have never fallen for it!!!!!

[Soapy Joe]

I'm just an ordinary punter, probably the sort of person you'd like to get into the restaurant. I am happy to travel far and pay high prices for good food. If I find a place that is great then I will tell a lot of people about it (including restaurant critics) and will do my level best to make sure the restaurant succeeds, so that I can keep on going back there.

However I am not likely to be going to Alexander's just yet, certainly not at the prices on the website. For one thing, you are a long way from anywhere (I live in central London) and at those prices I can eat very well within a small radius (a few miles) of my home. So my guess is that until you have a reputation (GFG, Michelin, reviews etc) then you are going to be trying to get people within a 10 mile radius of Limpsfield. I don't know too much about the area but my uneducated guess would be that the general population have a 'posh' meal out (ie more than £50 a head) about four times a year, maximum. If I was forced to make an under/over it would be nearer 2.5. Do you have a large enough potential customer base to make it work with that sort of visit frequency?

My main reason why I would not go is that your website does its very best to put me off. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please don't take it in the wrong way. But here's my thought just about the homepage (or rather, the page you click through to after the totally pointless homepage which only serves to a) confuse and b) ruin your search engine optimisation efforts:

You say:

"Alexander’s at Limpsfield is located in a wonderfully idyllic setting in the quiet and enchanting village of Limpsfield, Surrey. Here, the innovative talents of proprietor Patricia A Douglas have brought together style, elegance and a gastronomic experience of the highest level."

I say:

"FFS. I thought this was a restaurant I was going to. How come we don't get a mention of what kind of food it serves in the first paragraph? And why do I care about the proprietor? Damn, I hope it's not another of those restaurants where someone has made a shedload of money in another profession and now is going to blow it all by pursuing their dream of running a restaurant. Proprieters should neither be seen nor heard, imo, and certainly not in the first paragraph of the sales pitch. As for the "wonderfully idyllic setting in the quiet and enchanting village of Limpsfield, Surrey" it only makes me think that the premises is a rather ugly building stuck in the middle of a nice village - if it were a 17th century converted farmhouse then they would tell me. Ah look at the picture, it's the restaurant in snow. I wonder how ugly it looks when it's not covered in snow". Anyway, why do I give a toss about the setting or even the style and elegance when I'm being asked to fork out 15 quid for a starter!"

You say:

"Transformed from a traditional style restaurant, Alexander’s at Limpsfield opened its doors in November 2006 to challenge the standards of its competitors and raise the bar by delivering a truly memorable experience. At Alexander’s, our aim is to provide every guest with an event in the art of good eating where exceptional food, excellent service and relaxed atmosphere all come naturally."

I say:

"Give me a break. "An event in the art of good eating". Let's try and communicate in English rather than bullshit. "Transformed from a traditional style restaurant"....hmmmm, you mean it was once a Harvester? What is a 'traditional style restaurant'? This sounds like a euphemism for it being horrible.

You say:

"With a cleverly mixed blend of casual and fine dining under one roof, Alexander’s has something to offer everyone and will leave guests wanting to return time and time again."

I say:

Have you seriously got to the end of the home page of the site without mentioning what kind of food you serve and why it is good?

So far, so cruel. Now, let's get to the left navigation of the website. Which do you think your average customer is more interested in, a sample menu or the personnel? At the prices you charge I would hope it would be the sample menu? So why is key personnel listed first? My guess is because there are some big egos involved in this project, which puts me off massively.

Even when I do look at the personnel, it makes me more concerned. For example, let's look at Simon's page as head chef:

http://www.alexanders-limpsfield.co.uk/SimonAttridge.html

It starts:

"Born in Reigate, Surrey, Simon spent his early catering years in Redhill and Reigate Golf Club when he developed a strong desire to become a Chef at the highest level."

Okay, I've read enough. I'm being charged 15 quid for a starter by the chef from the local golf club.

Surely you bury that detail somewhere in the biog.

Try something like this:

Head Chef Simon Attridge is a Michelin-starred chef who had worked in some of Britain's top kitchens. He was head chef to Heston Blumenthal at xxx and has also worked with Gordon Ramsey. Before moving to Alexander's he was head chef at Drakes On The Pond in Surrey, where he achieved his first Michelin star.

Personally I think this should be on the home page....others may disagree.

A couple of other points:

http://www.alexanders-limpsfield.co.uk/associates.html is a complete mess and your web designer needs a nudge.

And Bruno Cicco might always have dreamed of achieving a Michelin star but this...

"Bruno has been privileged to work in some amazing locations, for some of the largest and most notable restaurants in the world and is thrilled to finally be given an opportunity to fulfill his ultimate dream of achieving his first Michelin Star alongside the dynamic team at Alexanders at Limpsfield."

....may not help his quest. I think the desire for a Michelin star is something you tell your friends and colleagues about, not post it on the website.

Feel free to ignore this...I freely admit I am no expert.

[Soapy Joe]

I wrote the things above before reading the Observer review (bit forgot to press submit last night....oops).

All I can say is that you should try and take some positives out of it, try and make the changes that have been suggested (IF the owners are capable of making those changes, which I would guess was the biggest problem) and then try and get Jay back in a year so he can write a nice review about how you have turned it all around...

[gnoos]

The comments about the website are spot on, it would have been the one thing that would have put me off visiting most. Smacks of ego with long bios and cheesy photos.

The most grating thing is the constant mention of "innovative proprietor Patricia A Douglas". Middle initials for some reason just seem wrong.

What exactly has she done that innovative? Bring "together style, elegance and a gastronomic experience of the highest level". Isnt that just what restaurants do? I certain she wasnt the first to try this innovative concept.

Other than that as other said at least its early in the restaurants life to take account of some of the brilliant advice offered.

Good luck!

Edited March 4, 2007 by gnoos (log)

[gnoos]

Even when I do look at the personnel, it makes me more concerned. For example, let's look at Simon's page as head chef:

http://www.alexanders-limpsfield.co.uk/SimonAttridge.html

It starts:

"Born in Reigate, Surrey, Simon spent his early catering years in Redhill and Reigate Golf Club when he developed a strong desire to become a Chef at the highest level."

Okay, I've read enough. I'm being charged 15 quid for a starter by the chef from the local golf club.

You could say the same about the innovative proprietors biog. I dont want to go to a restaurant run by someone in IT.

[chefsimon]

I'm just an ordinary punter, probably the sort of person you'd like to get into the restaurant. I am happy to travel far and pay high prices for good food. If I find a place that is great then I will tell a lot of people about it (including restaurant critics) and will do my level best to make sure the restaurant succeeds, so that I can keep on going back there.

However I am not likely to be going to Alexander's just yet, certainly not at the prices on the website. For one thing, you are a long way from anywhere (I live in central London) and at those prices I can eat very well within a small radius (a few miles) of my home. So my guess is that until you have a reputation (GFG, Michelin, reviews etc) then you are going to be trying to get people within a 10 mile radius of Limpsfield. I don't know too much about the area but my uneducated guess would be that the general population have a 'posh' meal out (ie more than £50 a head) about four times a year, maximum. If I was forced to make an under/over it would be nearer 2.5. Do you have a large enough potential customer base to make it work with that sort of visit frequency?

My main reason why I would not go is that your website does its very best to put me off. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please don't take it in the wrong way. But here's my thought just about the homepage (or rather, the page you click through to after the totally pointless homepage which only serves to a) confuse and b) ruin your search engine optimisation efforts:

You say:

"Alexander’s at Limpsfield is located in a wonderfully idyllic setting in the quiet and enchanting village of Limpsfield, Surrey. Here, the innovative talents of proprietor Patricia A Douglas have brought together style, elegance and a gastronomic experience of the highest level."

I say:

"FFS. I thought this was a restaurant I was going to. How come we don't get a mention of what kind of food it serves in the first paragraph? And why do I care about the proprietor? Damn, I hope it's not another of those restaurants where someone has made a shedload of money in another profession and now is going to blow it all by pursuing their dream of running a restaurant. Proprieters should neither be seen nor heard, imo, and certainly not in the first paragraph of the sales pitch. As for the "wonderfully idyllic setting in the quiet and enchanting village of Limpsfield, Surrey" it only makes me think that the premises is a rather ugly building stuck in the middle of a nice village - if it were a 17th century converted farmhouse then they would tell me. Ah look at the picture, it's the restaurant in snow. I wonder how ugly it looks when it's not covered in snow". Anyway, why do I give a toss about the setting or even the style and elegance when I'm being asked to fork out 15 quid for a starter!"

You say:

"Transformed from a traditional style restaurant, Alexander’s at Limpsfield opened its doors in November 2006 to challenge the standards of its competitors and raise the bar by delivering a truly memorable experience. At Alexander’s, our aim is to provide every guest with an event in the art of good eating where exceptional food, excellent service and relaxed atmosphere all come naturally."

I say:

"Give me a break. "An event in the art of good eating". Let's try and communicate in English rather than bullshit. "Transformed from a traditional style restaurant"....hmmmm, you mean it was once a Harvester? What is a 'traditional style restaurant'? This sounds like a euphemism for it being horrible.

You say:

"With a cleverly mixed blend of casual and fine dining under one roof, Alexander’s has something to offer everyone and will leave guests wanting to return time and time again."

I say:

Have you seriously got to the end of the home page of the site without mentioning what kind of food you serve and why it is good?

So far, so cruel. Now, let's get to the left navigation of the website. Which do you think your average customer is more interested in, a sample menu or the personnel? At the prices you charge I would hope it would be the sample menu? So why is key personnel listed first? My guess is because there are some big egos involved in this project, which puts me off massively.

Even when I do look at the personnel, it makes me more concerned. For example, let's look at Simon's page as head chef:

http://www.alexanders-limpsfield.co.uk/SimonAttridge.html

It starts:

"Born in Reigate, Surrey, Simon spent his early catering years in Redhill and Reigate Golf Club when he developed a strong desire to become a Chef at the highest level."

Okay, I've read enough. I'm being charged 15 quid for a starter by the chef from the local golf club.

Surely you bury that detail somewhere in the biog.

Try something like this:

Head Chef Simon Attridge is a Michelin-starred chef who had worked in some of Britain's top kitchens. He was head chef to Heston Blumenthal at xxx and has also worked with Gordon Ramsey. Before moving to Alexander's he was head chef at Drakes On The Pond in Surrey, where he achieved his first Michelin star.

Personally I think this should be on the home page....others may disagree.

A couple of other points:

http://www.alexanders-limpsfield.co.uk/associates.html is a complete mess and your web designer needs a nudge.

And Bruno Cicco might always have dreamed of achieving a Michelin star but this...

"Bruno has been privileged to work in some amazing locations, for some of the largest and most notable restaurants in the world and is thrilled to finally be given an opportunity to fulfill his ultimate dream of achieving his first Michelin Star alongside the dynamic team at Alexanders at Limpsfield."

....may not help his quest. I think the desire for a Michelin star is something you tell your friends and colleagues about, not post it on the website.

Feel free to ignore this...I freely admit I am no expert.

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[algy]

am I the only person who feels that they may have slipped into a parallel universe here?

[BertieWooster]

My main reason why I would not go is that your website does its very best to put me off. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please don't take it in the wrong way. But here's my thought just about the homepage (or rather, the page you click through to after the totally pointless homepage which only serves to a) confuse and b) ruin your search engine optimisation efforts:

←

But restaurant websites are notoriously awful. Sites for great places like Hibiscus fail to even have basic info like opening times on them. And there's always that slow flash upload which is just tedious. Why fancy restaurants have to have...*gibber, gibber*

am I the only person who feels that they may have slipped into a parallel universe here?

←

EDIT:

Edited March 5, 2007 by BertieWooster (log)

[Basildog]

am I the only person who feels that they may have slipped into a parallel universe here?

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Yes, we are in the world of ambitious chefs, critics, and the internet food forum.It's a heady mix

and on the subjext of websites, opening hours on the first page please( you know who you are! or maybe you don't, so why not check anyway?)

[Winot]

My main reason why I would not go is that your website does its very best to put me off. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please don't take it in the wrong way. But here's my thought just about the homepage (or rather, the page you click through to after the totally pointless homepage which only serves to a) confuse and b) ruin your search engine optimisation efforts:

←

But restaurant websites are notoriously awful. Sites for great places like Hibiscus fail to even have basic info like opening times on them. And there's always that slow flash upload which is just tedious. Why fancy restaurants have to have...*gibber, gibber*

This one's pretty good - Arbutus

[chefsimon]

My main reason why I would not go is that your website does its very best to put me off. This is intended to be constructive criticism, so please don't take it in the wrong way. But here's my thought just about the homepage (or rather, the page you click through to after the totally pointless homepage which only serves to a) confuse and b) ruin your search engine optimisation efforts:

←

But restaurant websites are notoriously awful. Sites for great places like Hibiscus fail to even have basic info like opening times on them. And there's always that slow flash upload which is just tedious. Why fancy restaurants have to have...*gibber, gibber*

am I the only person who feels that they may have slipped into a parallel universe here?

←

Either chefsimon is too angry to manage to reply and hits 'post' too soon, or he's simply breaking the egullet quote and edit guidelines enough so that he gets thrown off.

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Dont worry bertie i m still here just not replied yet as thinking about things like us ultra intelligent chefs do!!!!!!!!

i will be replying in the near future, dont you worry

[ludja]

Well i ll defend myself in good time as i m obviously going to!!!

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You have already....in all the postings on this thred and Alexanders of Limpsfield thred......you just have to take it on the chin as you did ask for it....the review that is......

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Here's the thread for Alexander's at Limpsfield .

[yunnermeier]

I didn't read all the responses so if this has been said....

I used to work at a magazine and every single meal/review we did was paid for by the company (not the magazine company but the company wanting the review). We would receive invitations by fax, mail or email to attend a press conference and this usually equals a free meal and a gift (no gift if it's a restaurant).

Mind you, that doesn't actually promise an article or a good review. While really bad reviews are not usually published, leaving it completely out of the magazine is very ,very common. I guess it's something you have to consider an investment . Restaurants with nothing special (good but not amazing for instance) or bad ones will get nothing written up or a tiny 3-sentence paragraph.

p/s: Getting a professional photographer to take good photographs is a must. Most publishers won't send a photographer for a food review .

[Basildog]

I didn't read all the responses so if this has been said....

I used to work at a magazine and every single meal/review we did was paid for by the company (not the magazine company but the company wanting the review). We would receive invitations by fax, mail or email to attend a press conference and this usually equals a free meal and a gift (no gift if it's a restaurant).

Mind you, that doesn't actually promise an article or a good review. While really bad reviews are not usually published, leaving it completely out of the magazine is very ,very common. I guess it's something you have to consider an investment .  Restaurants with nothing special (good but not amazing for instance) or bad ones will get nothing written up or a tiny 3-sentence paragraph.

p/s: Getting a professional photographer to take good photographs is a must. Most publishers won't send a photographer for a food review .

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That's not really the kind of reviewing we were talking about.

Having said that, there is an "organisation" down here who will inspect you to see if your good enough to join them, but they demand their inspection meal to be free.Bandits if you ask me.

[Basildog]

forgot to add they take £400 a year for the pleasure.Only one member in Padstow,(no, not me ) so bang on the money for a guide.

[gnoos]

forgot to add they take £400 a year for the pleasure.Only one member in Padstow,(no, not me ) so bang on the money for a guide.

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Padstow? Are you in Padstow? We'll be there for a week on the 24th March so all recommendations welcome!

[Basildog]

Number 6 in Middle street and Ripley's in St Merryn.

[Basildog]

Getting back on topic, any progress re the website Simon? How have the owners reacted to this thread? If your reading this , HELLO!.

and as we are here to help, your associate page has plenty of web designers, one coffee supplier and one wine merchant.What about real food suppliers like butchers etc.Just a thought.

[yunnermeier]

It's just, when a publication receives at least 10 restaurant invitations to eat for free each day , why would they pay to review one which doesn't? sure, they may pay to eat at a restaurant with a famous chef or a prestigious restaurant and review it but honestly, when the restaurant is a nobody, the magazine simply wouldn't. Doesn't make good business sense (and in the end , a magazine is a business)

[jayrayner]

It's just, when a publication receives at least 10 restaurant invitations to eat for free each day , why would they pay to review one which doesn't? sure, they may pay to eat at a restaurant with a famous chef or a prestigious restaurant and review it but honestly, when the restaurant is a nobody, the magazine simply wouldn't. Doesn't make good business sense (and in the end , a magazine is a business)

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You're not from around these parts are you.

Obviously there are publications which take freebies, but none of them have any credibility. In Britain, the dozen or so critics for the nationals (and major regionals) pay for all the meals they review.

[Zoticus]

Obviously there are publications which take freebies, but none of them have any credibility. In Britain, the dozen or so critics for the nationals (and major regionals) pay for all the meals they review.

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It's debatable whether the 'dozen or so critics' you mention have any credibility either.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Zoticus (log)

[jayrayner]

Obviously there are publications which take freebies, but none of them have any credibility. In Britain, the dozen or so critics for the nationals (and major regionals) pay for all the meals they review.

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It's debatable whether the 'dozen or so critics' you mention have any credibility either.

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Indeed it is debatable. The same bloody debate has been going on here for years.

[Basildog]

"You're not from around these parts are you."

I,m sorry,but that line has cracked me up,i see Jay playing a banjo.

Now back on topic, before i get banned

[Zoticus]

Obviously there are publications which take freebies, but none of them have any credibility. In Britain, the dozen or so critics for the nationals (and major regionals) pay for all the meals they review.

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It's debatable whether the 'dozen or so critics' you mention have any credibility either.

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Indeed it is debatable. The same bloody debate has been going on here for years.

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Not surprising.

[Ian]

This one's pretty good - Arbutus

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I disagree. For a start, it falls foul of the Disability Discrimination Act...

(If you're visually-impaired and using assistive technology such as a screen reader, you'll get nothing from the website whatsoever.)

(Actually that's a slight fib. You'll get "Arbutus Restaurant, Soho - London" - very helpful!)

All the best,

--

Ian Fenn

Chopstix Media

http://www.chopstixmedia.com/

Edited July 18, 2007 by Ian (log)