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Landmarc


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Admin: Archived discussion about the NY Times' erronious listing of a 25% discount at Landmarc may be found here

The menu reflects the breadth of Mr. Murphy's ambition. It is a sly French and Italian bistro primer that takes virtually every modern menu archetype and recasts it as a virtue. So, yes, that is French onion soup on the appetizer card, and goat cheese profiteroles, too. They're excellent.

Landmarc (Sam Sifton) (from the NYTimes DIGEST update for the weekend of 9 April to 12 April 2004. You may have to scroll down for the appropriate link.)

Soba

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Andrea Strong has some good things to say about Landmarc in "The Strong Buzz" on April 3 (scroll down for Landmarc):

I also visited Landmarc this week, the debut restaurant from chef Marc Murphy and his wife Pamela Schein Murphy. Marc has been out of the spotlight for a while, having taken turns cooking (and wowing critics) at Cellar in the Sky (rest in peace), and at La Forchette, and so it is a pleasure to see him back in his whites, with buddy and chef de cuisine Frank Proto (formerly of Layla) turning out some seriously ambitious, but decidedly down-home rustic French and Italian fare.

You will love eating at Landmarc. It is a high design space that is easy to slip into, never to leave.

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  • 2 weeks later...

interesting thread and terribly disappointing about the service/managment as i find nothing more pleasant than oustanding service; i'm still curious re: food at landmarc, though, as that hasn't been touched upon much here. has anyone been back (i'm guessing no one who has posted to date) besides strong? is it possible that a) the service has improved as time has passed and pam has learned a bit more about the industry or b) the food has improved (since it seems the first poster here found it rather unimpressive)?

bhk (new to board!)

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Welcome, bronihk! I would hardly call one member's experience definitive, and Landmarc has received some positive early mentions in the media. Have you been there? Let us know your thoughts.

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thanks for the welcome, glad to be here. no, haven't been yet but i did read many positive things in the press; i asked here as i didn't get much of a sense about what people on this board thought about the food quality. i'm specifically curious as i'm considering going with a group for my younger sister's graduation...she's got quite the discerning pallate, too!

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The best dishes percolate with detail. Fried calamari stings with a kick of pepper and is tempered by fried paper-thin slices of lemon. On a frisée salad, shrimp are sautéed and glazed with white wine. They mingle with sweet slices of artichoke and a sprinkling of capers. But the capers are fried, making them extra-salty and crisp, a smart textural element.

Landmarc (Amanda Hesser) (from the NYTimes DIGEST update for 21 April 2004. Scroll down for the appropriate link.)

Soba

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Based on dear Amanda's review, it sounds like a place I'd enjoy and I am in fact heading to NYC next weekend (4/30-5/2)...but having kept up on the Amanda Hesser talk, should I trust this review?

The Hesser review is consistent with other reviews of Landmarc. I did find her comments a bit precious---referring it to as a "friendly neighborhood restaurant." Murphy didn't open Landmarc to serve dinners to the neighborhood. Not that he won't be happy to serve those who live nearby, but about 70% of TriBeCa's restaurants would have to close if that were what they were counting on. TriBeCa is rather sparsely populated. It's a destination.

The LA Times article ("A dining frenzy takes Gotham") today, which included a "Hot List" of 8 restaurants, including Landmarc, had it right:

It all represents a sea change on this small island. For the longest time after the darkest days of late 2001, heavily residential neighborhoods were where Manhattan restaurateurs went shopping for space. .... But now the tectonic plates seem to be shifting under the city, and the map is being redrawn. Diners here, after all, can get just about anywhere by subway, for the same $2, whether they're heading for Times Square or Harlem.

In other words, the whole city is Landmarc's "neighborhood."

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Hesser gave Landmarc a very good review. She criticizes two dishes but this is her only real slam of the place:

Each sweet is just $3 — a great deal, except that it's still $2.75 too much.

As my classmates used to say in 7th grade, "Oh snap!" :shock:

I found this remark rather arguable, though:

But two of Landmarc's elements made me feel kindly disposed to the place. One is the "No Substitutions" printed at the bottom of the menu.

OK, asking for Frisee aux Lardons without the Lardons (which Hesser mentions) is one thing, but would a "No Substitutions" sign make you feel kindly disposed to a place? It makes me feel like they're either lazy, overworked, or kind of stuck up. There may be dietary reasons for people to ask for substitutions, and I would think that a restaurant might consider such substitutions on a case-by-case basis. Instituting a blanket prohibition is their prerogative, but it seems dubious to me.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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The most common argument I've heard for a "No Substitutions" policy is that the food is meant to taste a certain way, and any substitutions could, potentially, leave the diner disappointed. For example (true story): a customer orders the salmon but asks for "steamed spinach only, no butter, no additional salt", then tells the server that the food is "bland". The concern here is, if the customer leaves unsatsified, through no fault of the restaurant, s/he will leave with an unfavorable impression. And what's the old saw about one unhappy customer telling everyone they know...

I'm sure if someone with a shellfish, nut, gluten, allergy came in, the kitchen would make an exception.

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OK, asking for Frisee aux Lardons without the Lardons (which Hesser mentions) is one thing, but would a "No Substitutions" sign make you feel kindly disposed to a place? It makes me feel like they're either lazy, overworked, or kind of stuck up. There may be dietary reasons for people to ask for substitutions, and I would think that a restaurant might consider such substitutions on a case-by-case basis. Instituting a blanket prohibition is their prerogative, but it seems dubious to me.

I rather agree with her position on this, but I'd probably have expressed it differently. In answer to your question about whether I'd feel kindly disposed to the place, the answer is probably not, but likely not for the reason you might assume. My reaction would be to question the kind of clientele they were getting, or expected to get. I just don't believe one will get excellent food of the kind I like, from a kitchen that either has to pander to diners' tastes or from one that worries it's not attracting a clientele who came looking for their food. Schaem's point is well made. A restaurant wants to thrive by selling what it does best.

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

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So does that mean that neither of you have ever asked for substitutions because you thought they'd be good? I have, on rare occasions, and without remembering specific instances, I generally remember that when the requests have been granted, the results have usually been good.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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I would say that the "No Substitution" policy is terribly inhospitable. I have a friend with very specific (admittedly annoying) tastes and she has a laundry list of things she won't eat. She has requested some sort of substitutions at just about every meal I have had with her (it is now a running joke) and has even done so at Jean Georges, and ADNY. Both of these proud establishments gracefully executed her requests and only on a rare occasion have I witnessed any proprietor refuse her. Landmarc would have nothing to lose by accommodating a guest’s request. I feel this policy is evidence of their bad will and poor judgment.

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Another (true) example of why substitutions are not always a good idea: "No potato, sub extra morels." I think in most cases I would prefer morels to potato, but who else thinks this request is a bit inequitable.

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Another (true) example of why substitutions are not always a good idea: "No potato, sub extra morels." I think in most cases I would prefer morels to potato, but who else thinks this request is a bit inequitable.

Me! That request takes balls. If I were the restaurant, I'd probably make that substitution with a supplement only. Customers asking for a substitution are asking for a favor and should be reasonable and tread lightly.

It's a given to me that restaurants always have the right to refuse to make a substitution. I just don't think having a blanket policy of automatic refusal is praiseworthy.

Michael aka "Pan"

 

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This is getting into subject matter that is only tangential to Landmarc, but I think if a restaurant has a wide enough range of selections to please most customers in their target demographic, there should be no need to offer substitutions. If you don't want to have the ratatouille that comes with the "lamb t-bone" then either don't eat it or order something else... like the grilled pork chop with sauteed spinach. If you want to have the pork chop but just can't live without ratatouille... then it is available as a side. So, really, this is a nonissue for a place like Landmarc. Take a look at their dinner menu. There's plenty for everyone there, and if someone can't find a dish they're willing to eat as-is, then Landmarc probably isn't the restaurant for them. Given their "mix and match" steak and mussel choices, they seem plenty flexible to me. Plenty of restaurants, especially in larger cities where there are many other opportunities for customers who don't see anything they like on the menu, don't allow or encourage substitutions.

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I ambled into Landmarc today for lunch. It was about 1pm, and the restaurant was around 1/3rd full. It actually got a tad busier by the time I left, but the downstairs was still well under 1/2 full. I took a look upstairs, where only 2-3 tables were occupied. There is a gorgeous 3/4ths-enclosed booth that the manager said is available for parties of 6.

I don't like to drink before the evening. The ample selection of half-bottles of wine was duly noted, but the staff did not mind that I preferred tap water. I ordered the asparagus soup (yummy) and steak au poivre. Not much can be done to improve an age-old recipe like steak au poivre. Landmarc served a thick piece of meat, crusty on the outside and cooked to a perfect medium rare on the inside, topped with onions. The pepper sauce got the job done, but it was a bit runny and soaked the bottom layer of french fries. The fries that the sauce didn't get to were crisp and medium-thickness.

Service was attentive and efficient at the beginning of the meal, but visits to my table seemed to tail off near the end. They kept me waiting for the steak a bit longer than they should, but all was forgiven once I tasted it. The manager did make a point of coming around to every table and saying hello.

For a place that doesn't take reservations for parties less than six, both the placement and the size of the bar seem to be a miscalculation. It's at the back of the restaurant, so patrons who want to wait at the bar before their table is ready have to pass through the downstairs dining area. There are only five bar stools, so I suspect it will get crowded back there, potentially a distraction for those who've already been seated.

I don't know if Landmarc will take a cell phone number and call you when they're ready. If so, I suspect Buster's Garage, the NASCAR-themed sports bar across the street, will pick up a lot of the overflow. I read in the minutes for Community Board 1's monthly meeting that there have already been compaints in the neighborhood about the noise at the newly-opened Buster's.

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So... during part one of our New York City Offal Tour, JJ, Herb and I found ourselves at Landmarc on Saturday evening at around 6:00. The place was already beginning to fill up with patrons from the neighborhood, but we were able to find a comfortable table with a nice view of the room. The place is sort-of "deconstructed-chic," having been torn down to the brick walls and exposed rafters, etc. There are some pictures here that provide a nice look at the details, but don't really provide a sense of the scale of the room. The ceilings are extremely high, and contribute to an overall airy feeling. One thing we all appreciated was the sound level there. With all the exposed brick, high ceilings and other hard surfaces, you'd expect it to be cacophonous. So it was a bit of a surprise when we didn't have to shout across the table at each other. The music (old jazz, mostly) wasn't turned up too high either. Later Pamela Murphy, one of the owners, explained that they had gone to some lengths to install soundproofing and moderate the accoustics. Noisy restaurants is one of my major peeves, so this kind of detail is greatly appreciated by me.

Since offal was the order of the day, we took three dishes from their "Landmarc specials" and enjoyed them very much. The chef, Marc Murphy, has a real enthusiasm for offal and had a lengthy chat with us about our trip as well as his approach to offal at Landmarc. The "Landmarc specials" section will feature a changing selection of "bistro favorites" and offal dishes. Previous offerings have included things like rognons a la moutarde (veal kidneys simmered in a mustard, paprika and cognac sauce). I'm kind of sorry we missed out on that one, because we weren't able to find any kidneys this trip. Talking to the chef about offal, I got the sense that this kind of cooking is a big part of his culinary soul. Both Marc and Pamela were disappointed that they had sold out of the previous week's house-made head cheese special. I'll definitely be checking their menu page from time to time to see what's coming up. So, the food...

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Boudin noir with French fries, caramelized onions and apples was great. The blood sausage was earthy, the frites were crisp... what more could you ask for? Just good, simple neighborhood food -- and priced to sell at 18 bucks. In fact, just about everything on the menu is a great bargain.

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My favorite was the crispy sweetbreads with horseradish and green beans. I love sweetbreads with a crisp, peppery coating and these satisfied immediately. The green beans had a little crunch to them, and the sauce was just right. All this said, we couldn't really detect much horseradish flavor in the dish. But, now that I think of it, he probably used fresh horseradish, which has a significantly more subtle flavor.

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Sautéed calf's liver with peas, scallions and caramelized onion whipped potatoes was also impressive, and probably the most inventive of the three. I've never had liver cooked quite this way. Rather than the usual "slice thin and sear" technique, which can be somewhat hit-or-miss, Marc had the idea to cook it in a large block instead. This made it possible to put a good crust on the liver while still keeping the center just up to medium rare. As the picture shows, Landmarc's liver has an impressive crust an makes an interesting presentation. The texture was nicely beefy, and the flavor was mild with just the slightest thread of that "liver flavor" to let you know you're eating calf's liver and not one of it's more timid cousins.

Another great feature of Landmarc is the wine list. When we were first seated, our waiter told us that they didn't offer wines by the glass, but featured such a small markup as well as many half bottles that he was sure we'd find something we liked. He wasn't kidding! This has to be the one of the best-priced wine lists in the city, if not the best. Many of the wines were no more than 25% over retail. We found a half bottle of a nice Spanish red for nine dollars! That's less than many places would charge for a glass. Actually, the folks at Landmarc seem to have gone out of their way to make the pricing affordable. I think it would be easy for two people to split a half bottle, have appetizers, mains and a few desserts for 80 dollars before tip. The pricing, like many of the things about Landmarc, seems designed to attract the kind of repeat business a casual neighborhood place thrives on, and indeed most of the people there seemed to be repeat customers familiar with the restaurant. I'm not sure I agree with the poster above who suggested that there aren't enough people in TriBeCa to sustain a real neigborhood restaurant. Buster's, the sports bar across the street, is certainly not a destination spot and it was doing big business when we left.

Speaking of desserts, as the Times review mentioned, they are all small and available for 3 dollars apiece -- or 15 dollars for one of everything on the dessert menu. Unlike Ms. Hesser, we thought they were worth well more than 25 cents apiece. JJ, who is a sucker for desserts with acidity, was particularly enamored of the lemon tart and berry crumble. The coffee granita and creme brulee were favorites of mine.

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I'm not in general a big dessert eater, so I thought it was nice to have the opportunity for a small bite of something sweet. Just about the only thing missing that I would have liked to see was a small cheese plate. By the time we left Landmarc, the dinner hour was in full swing and the place was hopping.

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I'm not sure I agree with the poster above who suggested that there aren't enough people in TriBeCa to sustain a real neigborhood restaurant. Buster's, the sports bar across the street, is certainly not a destination spot and it was doing big business when we left.

'Twas I that said something like that, although I didn't really mean what you're suggesting. Yes, of course Landmarc will pull in people from the neighborhood. What I meant was that I believe Landmarc is designed to cast a much wider net, and so in that sense it's not truly a "neighborhood restaurant."

I also think that all of the critical attention Landmarc's getting reflects that it's more than just a neighborhood restaurant---it's good enough to justify an outing, even if you don't live or work nearby.

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My dinner at Landmarc a couple of nights ago was a pleasant surprise: Landmarc turns out to be a destination restaurant disguised as a neighborhood bistro.

There's not much to say in addition to what has already been reported here, but there are a few places where I think the New York Times review needs further analysis:

The one area that needs serious work, though, is dessert. Acting on the smart theory that most people want just a small amount of dessert, the portions have been minimized, and so have the prices. Each sweet is just $3 -- a great deal, except that it's still $2.75 too much. The granitas lack intensity; the chocolate mousse is too dense and often comes out cold; the crème brulée feels routine.

I'm not sure if she tasted the other desserts, but the lemon tart is the best I've had and the blueberry crumble is on par with desserts costing $12+ at fine-dining restaurants. I'm also not sure how "routine" is a criticism -- apparently it is meant that way -- of creme brulee. It's a very well-made creme brulee. Are all classics "routine"? Of the six desserts on my sampler platter, I felt that two were categorically excellent, one was very good (the crème brulee), one was okay (apple tart), and two were weak (mousse and granitas). In discussing the granitas with Ms. Murphy, she acknowledged that they're having consistency problems with that dessert -- so she's certainly not in denial. I imagine, given the newness of the restaurant, we're looking at opening glitches rather than a bad dessert program. Then again, given how packed the place is, I hope they'll be able to afford a real pastry chef eventually.

But two of Landmarc's elements made me feel kindly disposed to the place. One is the ''No Substitutions'' printed at the bottom of the menu. In other words: we aim to please but don't try ordering frisée aux lardons without the lardons! It may be a friendly neighborhood restaurant, but it has a backbone. The message reminds you that the whole point of eating out is to expand your horizons, to relax and choose trust over control.

Strictly speaking, "frisee aux lardons without the lardons" is not a substitution. I wonder, was such an order refused by the waitstaff, or is this just speculation? At my table, we had one SOS (sauce on the side) order and it was happily accommodated (we did not identify ourselves to Ms. Murphy until later, so I doubt it was a put-on). My impression is that "no substitutions" means you can't get spinach instead of the fries that come with the steaks. That's something different. Also, for a non-haute-cuisine establishment where full-on culinary artistry is not a selling point, it's hard for me to find anything to celebrate in a refusal to accommodate a veg-for-veg substitution of that sort. Indeed, I imagine the neighborhood clientele will resent it enough such that management will eventually buckle.

Landmarc's other great virtue is its wine list, which could serve as a model for many others around New York. Included among a stimulating selection of mostly reasonably priced wines is a strong list of half bottles, just the thing for a weeknight, when you are out with friends in your favorite new neighborhood restaurant.

Talk about an understatement. This is the most important New York wine list of the 21st Century. Has Wine Spectator done a feature on this yet? Has the New York Times dispatched its new head wine writer to champion Landmarc's bold undertaking? Overall this wine list has the lowest wine markups I've ever seen in New York City. It is nothing short of radical to price wine this way, and if Landmarc can make it up on volume and other restaurants copy it, we will have seen a turning point in the history of wine list pricing. We as eGulleters and advocates of excellence should do everything we can to get the word out about this list. Go to it, people!

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Yea, the wine list at Landmarc is so inexpensive I almost laughed when I read it. What a deal! It really is revolutionary in its own way. I especially appreciated the fact that they offer a lot of half bottles.

Really, many things about Landmarc are priced extremely reasonably. Steven and I were just talking about our impressions of Landmarc yesterday. Although we both live in ostensibly less-expensive neighborhoods, none of the comparable restaurants on the UES or UWS are priced as well as Landmarc... and in most cases the food is clearly not as good.

Re the substitutions thing: Pamela Murphy and I communicated briefly about it. They are naturally happy to leave something out of any order or do sauce on the side at the customer's request. So "frisee aux lardons without the lardons" or "steak frites with sauce on the side" would work just fine. They also offer just about every accompaniment on the menu as a very reasonably-priced side dish. So, the fact is that you can have just about anything they offer with just about anything else if you really must. I imagine it's more a matter of mitigating the confusion that can ensue when a table of 6 puts in special orders for everyone, and perhaps also controlling the food cost for each dish (which cost, I assume, must be smartly managed given their unusually inexpensive prices).

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True, most of the veg options are available as sides for $4, so effectively the cost of a substitution is $4. Still, I'm not convinced that, operationally, it's all that big a deal to do veg substitutions on, hypothetically, every dish. Nor do I have any aesthetic objection to substitutions when the dishes in question are steak, grilled tuna, roast chicken, seared salmon, etc. -- although the awesome cod dish I had (with rock shrimp, fennel and tomato-basil consomme) did represent culinary artistry to the point where a substitution could have ruined it. But hey, if you want to be a neighborhood place, you have to not care when someone replaces the rock shrimp, fennel and tomato-basil consomme with spinach, and asks for the cod "just grilled no oil or butter." Saying you're a casual, first-come-first-served neighborhood place, and then saying no substitutions, sends a mixed message.

In any event, as a chef of Marc Murphy's caliber well knows, you pretty quickly learn what substitutions are common and you adjust your mise en place accordingly. Most likely it's going to net out to zero additional food cost, but if it's enough to push entree prices up by a dollar (hard to imagine, but hey it could happen if everybody subs mushrooms) you probably still buy more goodwill by allowing substitutions than by charging a dollar less. Not that I care. I'm happy to play by Landmarc's rules and I wouldn't be tempted to ask for any substitutions. I just think this particular policy is user-unfriendly enough that they'll eventually have to repeal it.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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Did we touch on the issue of mussels yet? We had some mussels with pesto and cherry tomatoes, and the were terrific. The sauce -- kind of a pesto broth -- was so good we burned through two baskets of bread sopping it up. Marc Murphy told us that when they opened it took them a few days to figure out why bread consumption was so high; turned out it was the sauces with the mussels. "It's a good problem to have!" he laughed.

Also, the rustic foie gras terrine with pickled onions -- the best twelve bucks you're going to spend.

The spaghetti carbonara, which was the Tuesday pasta, was beautifully al dente and had big-ass chunks of bacon in it. Better in my opinion than the version served at Lupa.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

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