Philadelphia Tasters' Club

[Vadouvan]

So here is the meat in natural and artificial light, it's a lovely 70 degrees on the east coast today.

Whole Foods Incandescent.

Flannery Incandescent.

Whole Foods Natural.

Flannery Natural.

Vaccum Marinated:

Grill/Konro :

http://www.korin.com/product.php?pid=419&df=korin

Bincho-Tan:

I would reccomend you do this outside your house on a nice day, the weather is just perfect today, what good timing.

Charcoal creates carbon monoxide when it burns.

[wkl]

hey v, are you sure that isn't sumi charcoal? the bincho i have is a more cylindrical (is that a word?) shape, without the hollow center.

[Vadouvan]

Yes that is Sumi, actually I am using B-T I got from Japan.

Burns slightly cleaner and hotter.....

Thanks for the correction, now I wont have to edit it....

Have you grilled anything with the stuff you got Bill ?

[wkl]

yes, i've grilled shrimp, hangar, pork tenderloin, boneless chicken thighs. it works well, burns long and hot. no smoke either, so it imparts a subtler flavor than traditional charcoal.

[alwang]

So here is the meat in natural and artificial light, it's a lovely 70 degrees on the east coast today.

Flannery Incandescent.

Vaccum Marinated:

The marbling on those Flannery steaks is amazing...

Couple of other questions about how the vacuum marinating was done:

- That's a really deep-colored oil: is it grapeseed? I'm curious what brand, and how much you're using: I usually only use a tablespoon or so of oil, but you seem to have more in each bag: did you have to prefreeze it to get the bag sealed?

- do you plan to remove the thyme and laurel from the bag prior to CSV? I find that when I leave whole herbs on the meat during cooking, they get embedded into the surface in a way that's a nuisance to remove, and isn't very attractive (although I have been wondering if there are ways to use this embedding creatively, for an interesting visual presentation). Or will the searing obscure all this?

Thanks,

-al

[marinade]

did you have to prefreeze it to get the bag sealed?[

I'm thinking that would cause some texture issues. As water content in muscle tissues expands during freezing it can break the cell wall leaving a puddle of liquid in the bag. Some of the newer vacuum sealers on the market will allow you seal wet. Like this one for example : Food Saver.

Those steaks do look like choice eating.

Jim

Edited March 14, 2007 by marinade (log)

[dagordon]

Those steaks do look like choice eating.

Prime, my friend (the Flannery steaks, that is)

[alwang]

did you have to prefreeze it to get the bag sealed?[

I'm thinking that would cause some texture issues. As water content in muscle tissues expands during freezing it can break the cell wall leaving a puddle of liquid in the bag. Some of the newer vacuum sealers on the market will allow you seal wet. Like this one for example : Food Saver.

←

I actually didn't mean freezing the steak, just freezing the oil into a solid, then sealing it with the steak. It's something folks do to seal liquids with the cheaper FoodSavers.

-al

[Vadouvan]

Couple of other questions about how the vacuum marinating was done:

- That's a really deep-colored oil: is it grapeseed? I'm curious what brand, and how much you're using: I usually only use a tablespoon or so of oil, but you seem to have more in each bag: did you have to prefreeze it to get the bag sealed?

- do you plan to remove the thyme and laurel from the bag prior to CSV? I find that when I leave whole herbs on the meat during cooking, they get embedded into the surface in a way that's a nuisance to remove, and isn't very attractive (although I have been wondering if there are ways to use this embedding creatively, for an interesting visual presentation). Or will the searing obscure all this?

Thanks,

-al

I dont prefreeze oil, first I use a Berkel Machine with ridiculous pressure and unless you are "Confit"-ing the stuff in the bag, you dont need that much oil.

http://www.berkel.com/spec_sheets/350.pdf

I also use a slant tray in the machine so that liquids will stay in the bag.

Prefreezing the oil or duck fat is probably neccessary for a non comercial quality vaccum machine.

I remove the garlic but I leave the thyme and Laurel.

The embedding issue is irrelevant, searing at the end eliminates any surface issues.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[rooftop1000]

What happened to the foie gras??.....

how about throwing some "fatty goose liver" into the mix? I met these militant...I mean Nice folks at the Restaurant Show in NYC a few weeks ago

scroll down for the goose livers

http://www.schiltzfoods.com/goose_food_products.htm

tracey

[mrbigjas]

whoa, goose chitlins

[philadining]

[Andrew Fenton]

Oooh, what am I still doing up? I will write more tomorrow, but let's just say that the Pimp My Steak experiment showed that:

a) better-quality steak in fact tastes better, and

b) them fancy Japanese grills are pretty great. I don't think that's just the carbon monoxide talking, either.

Great pics, Phil. I especially like this one:

The Indiana Jones-style lighting really makes it look mysterious. and delicious. I'm pretty sure that the grill box contains the Ark of the Covenant. Seriously, don't look inside.

Also this last one:

"Meet the Meat."

Edited March 15, 2007 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[KatieLoeb]

This explains where you all were tonight, when I was hoping you'd stop by and have a drink at the bar at M.

Looks awesome. Sorry I missed it.

[mrbigjas]

The Indiana Jones-style lighting really makes it look mysterious.  and delicious.  I'm pretty sure that the grill box contains the Ark of the Covenant.  Seriously, don't look inside.

haha, doing the statue/sandbag swap with the flannery and whole foods steaks...

more tomorrow.

[shacke]

Once again, big props and a loud shout out to Vadouvan for organizing this tasting.

I think what this tasting indeed showed was that the method of cooking can affect, and positively, the overall enjoyment of the meat which translates into bettering a lesser quality piece of meat.

I thought that pan searing had the least effect, essentially making the innate quality of the meat show it's stuff and if it's not there - there isn't much you can do. This is more of a showcase method of preparation.

Sous vide, which is not the stuff of most kitchens, including mine, enhances these natural textural qualities of the beef. Texture improves allowing some others faults to be less obvious. If there is a pleasant feel to the steak, your brain will automatically give the meat some points. In addition, it seems to lock in fat which improves flavor.

Unlike the sear and sous vide, the grilling adds another flavor dimension to the steak and this to me was the best method. Granted, they were perfectly cooked on a particular grill with bincho-tan. If I had thrown this on the grill in the backyard, I would not have had this kind of luck. For that reason, I am likely to continue to sear at home with good cuts. The grilling, like sous vide, adds an extra flavor component (not overwhleming at all) to the steak so it is a good choice if the cut of meat you have is not 10 out of 10.

Whole foods fared much better this time around and the steak actually looked much better so go by your eye if you are shopping there and reject anything that looks wimpy and anemic. The flannery steak was excellent and I am glad to have had it included. While I have thoughts on how it compares to Lobel's, I will not make a judgment since it was not head to head. You can't go wrong with either.

Thanks to all.

Evan

[docsconz]

Damn, that's a lot of umami in one place! Philadining, you are to food photography on the internet what Bob Guccione was to a certain other kind of photography in magazines!

David, how did the price of the Flannery meat compare to Lobel's?

It's things like this that make Penn look better and better.

[davecap]

Yes that is Sumi, actually I am using B-T I got from Japan.

Burns slightly cleaner and hotter.....

Thanks for the correction, now I wont have to edit it....

Have you grilled anything with the stuff you got Bill ?

←

what is it that makes that charcoal so expensive? other japanese charcoals are not near that pricey?

[dagordon]

More thanks to V for organizing this.

The Flannery strips were $29.99/lb. This compared to Lobel's almost $47/lb. As shacke said, it's not fair to compare the meat, as they weren't head-to-head, but I think it's clear that the Flannery steaks are an exceptional value. It's the overnight shipping that killed us with these (given our time constraints that was the only option); Bryan said that he normally likes to do 2 day shipping, which is far less expensive, and they've recently worked out a deal with FedEx for even cheaper 2 day shipping. He's completely confident that the steaks will arrive in perfect condition with 2 day shipping.

As to the tasting, it's pretty clear now that cooking method can dramatically affect the quality of a steak. Given that most of don't have the equipment for sous vide, or a Bincho-Tan grill, it was pretty disappointing how much less enjoyable the simply pan-seared steaks were than the others. As someone mentioned at the tasting, the pan-seared Whole Foods steak wasn't bad, but the interior (non-crust) was kind of like eating nothing. (Though maybe we were getting this impression only b/c of comparisons to the other steaks.) And the sous vide and grilled Whole Foods steaks were not like eating nothing; flavor and texture were improved with the sous vide steak, and flavor with the grilled one.

I should say, as shacke suggested, that the grilled steaks can't really be compared to something you'd do in your backyard... for one thing, they were perfectly cooked, but more importantly the grilled/charcoal flavor was very subtle, mildly smoky and not at all burnt tasting. It really had the effect of contributing to the flavors of the steak, as opposed to masking them.

I think the sous-vide Whole Foods was probably the best of the Whole Foods steaks, though the grilled one was also very good.

I can't decide whether I liked the sous vide Flannery or the grilled Flannery the best. One thing that was really interesting was that the sous vide method amplified the dry-aged flavor of the Flannery steak a great deal; it was quite pronounced, which I liked a lot. But the flavors of the grilled one were also great, in a different way.

A main lesson of the tasting seems to be this: if you have a place to use it outdoors, get one of these Japanese grills. They're relatively inexpensive, and the results are impressive.

[Andrew Fenton]

I went into the tasting rooting hard for the pan-cooked Whole Foods steak. It's the underdog, and it's the only one I could go out and prepare TONIGHT, if I wanted. As others have said, neither the meat nor the method rose to the level of the others. Dagnabit.

I probably enjoyed the grilled steaks the most: that wee li'l Japanese grill packs a wicked punch, flavor-wise. The charcoal flavor didn't infuse past the outer half-inch or so, but it really made for an outstanding crust. And proof that the millions of American men out there grilling steaks on their Webers are onto something. Even if most of them wouldn't be caught dead cooking on a little box like that.

I actually didn't think that sous-vide did too much for the flavor of the meat, but it made a huge difference in terms of texture. Any stringy or tendony bits of the meat were dissolved and reabsorbed into the meat, giving it a smooth, rich texture. In a way, it's an ideal cooking method for somebody in a situation like mine. I like flavor; the wife likes tenderness. Normally you have to choose between (say) a ribeye and a filet, but the SV evens out a lot of the potential toughness of a more flavorful cut. But first you have to have the setup.

My other thought is that while it's true that the pan-cooked steak had the least wow to it, flavor-wise, it's also the only one that didn't have any flavors added to it. We all noticed the hazelnut oil in the sous-vide (sweet, nutty) and of course, charcoal has a pronounced taste. In the real world, if I cooked a steak in a pan, I'd finish it off with some sort of sauce: anchovy or herb butter, or some sort of pan sauce. A good sauce would erase a lot of the distinctions between that method and the others.

Big thanks, as always, to Vadouvan for his organization and mad ninja-chef skills; and thanks to David, too, for his contributions in getting the ball rolling. Good stuff.

[rae]

mmm steak. Now personal vendettas against WF aside, their steaks fared quite well. Even the pan-seared WF steak, while it had an obvious "nothing" like quality when compared head to head with the Flannery steak, if it had been on its own I think I would have been fairly happy. Unfortunately WF has a consistency problem (and so does Wegmans for that matter). I've had truly great steaks from both WF and Wegmans (not in taste tests) but I've also had pretty poor quality steaks from both. And a couple days back when I was forcibly dragged into WF against my will, there was a steak right in the front of the case that looked like death (although not as death-likes as come steaks I saw sold at another center city quality food establishment north of rittenhouse square...).

Anyway, as far as cooking method, both the sous vide and grilled WF steaks were considerably better than their pan-seared counterpart. I attributed this to flavor enhancements more than textural differences, and leads me to think, if you "marinated" a WF steak and pan-seared it, it might help.

I'm not going to pick a Flannery winner; I loved them all. I'm a purist so when you have a great steak I think why bother with the fuss (even if the sous vide did concentrate the flavors in a way).

And finally, I'd have to say, for once I actually wasn't chilly... dare I say I was almost warm

[philadining]

This was actually quite an informative and enlightening experiment, even though we were not especially surprised by the results. I remember being chided by a professor back in college for commenting that some study's conclusion seemed "obvious." He suggested that even if some phenomenon seemed like common sense, it was worth investigating, describing and verifying.

So, what did we learn?

Better beef tastes better. We'd largely concluded this from the first steak tasting, but we were curious whether the cooking method would overwhelm the differences. While some of the methods certainly made the supermarket steaks pretty darn tasty, the Flannery steaks were consistently better. No surprise, but worth verifying.

Grilling beats pan-searing. Again, no big surprise, but I know I wasn't alone in hoping that a simple pan-sear on a really good steak might be at least close to as good, just so I could avoid the hassle of setting up a charcoal grill. But the smoky overtones really vastly improved both steaks, even the supermarket strip.

Sous-vide dramatically concentrates flavors and makes for a luxurious, tender texture. Again, not that big of a surprise for most of us, and a little bit of a bummer for those of us not ready to devote the money and space for circulators and water baths in our kitchens. The light brush of hazelnut oil on the CSV steaks was a really nice accent.

These Whole Foods steaks were significantly better than the one we got for the earlier tasting. This is good and bad news: on one hand it is indeed possible to get a good dry-aged steak from Whole foods; on the other, buyer beware, get a good look at the steak before they wrap it up, there seems to be a range of quality.

Although the Whole Foods steaks were pretty good over all, in the array of 6 samples, the plain pan-seared Whole Foods steak ended up tasting like nothing at all. So if you are constrained to doing it in a pan, you might want to plan on an interesting sauce, or compound butter or something. If you can grill it over good charcoal (or sous-vide it with some nut oil and herbs) you'll be fine with a plainer prep.

So, no big surprises, but some vivid confirmations of some of our presumptions. And a pretty enjoyable night in any case!

Big thanks to V for the hard work, and to dagordon and rae for beef wrangling.

Edited March 15, 2007 by philadining (log)

[alwang]

Hmmm, this is very interesting. Makes me wonder what I should do for steaks this summer when grill season starts up: maybe the best of both worlds would be cooking steaks CSV to 53C, and then finishing them on a really hot charcoal grill for the crust and smokiness. Gonna have to give that a try...

-al

[philadining]

Another alarming discovery: chocolate = good.

a tasting package from Soma Chocolatemaker in Toronto.

[MarketStEl]

So what hope do we with little more than countertop grills at our disposal have?