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Darin Smith

The food TV show I'd like to see.

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I think a great show would be one where each episode is a day of the Certified Master Chef exam.

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I think a great show would be focusing on all the prep in takes to make TV chefs look good.


Edited by rich (log)

Rich Schulhoff

Opinions are like friends, everyone has some but what matters is how you respect them!

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Chris Cognac and Tony Bourdain visiting a location together!

SB :biggrin::biggrin:

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I think a great show would be focusing on all the prep in takes to make TV chefs look good.

Have you seen Alton Brown's Good Eats one hour behind-the-scenes episode? He covered the researchers, food prep team, prop and costume departments, other things I have forgotten as well as actors. He also briefly touched on the technical production staff. I had no idea he had so many staffers helping to make the show happen. He also revealed which of the regular on-screen talent were really experts in their field and which were just actors playing roles. The character W is actually his chiropractor!

As far as a show that would catch my attention - the process of a chef creating a new dish for his/her menu.

Porthos Potwatcher

The Unrelenting Carnivore


Porthos Potwatcher
The Once and Future Cook

;

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I think a great show would be focusing on all the prep in takes to make TV chefs look good.

Have you seen Alton Brown's Good Eats one hour behind-the-scenes episode? He covered the researchers, food prep team, prop and costume departments, other things I have forgotten as well as actors. He also briefly touched on the technical production staff. I had no idea he had so many staffers helping to make the show happen. He also revealed which of the regular on-screen talent were really experts in their field and which were just actors playing roles. The character W is actually his chiropractor!

As far as a show that would catch my attention - the process of a chef creating a new dish for his/her menu.

Porthos Potwatcher

The Unrelenting Carnivore

I was going to say....

FoodTV has actually done this. I also saw a show on Giada where they got into the "behind the scenes" on how they did that show. And they covered some of how they do Rachael's show, too. Pretty big difference in the way they are both produced.


Jeff Meeker, aka "jsmeeker"
jmeeker@eGullet.org

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Chris Cognac and Tony Bourdain visiting a location together!

SB  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

That already happened but no camera's involved.....I must admit, it was pretty cool...Tony is a stand up guy.....


Moo, Cluck, Oink.....they all taste good!

The Hungry Detective

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I wish they'd run the Wolfgang Puck show where he goes through basic technique earlier and more often. I think there's definitely a market for that sort of thing--an elementary technique and food-chemistry show a little less hammy and more in-depth than Good Eats. Knowing what happens in the pan, and why, would be really useful to a lot of people.


This whole love/hate thing would be a lot easier if it was just hate.

Bring me your finest food, stuffed with your second finest!

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Michael Ruhlman wrote about a CMC exam in Soul of a Chef but to my knowledge there has been no show and I doubt CIA would allow one.

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Michael Ruhlman wrote about a CMC exam in Soul of a Chef but to my knowledge there has been no show and I doubt CIA would allow one.

I know of two shows that covered it at lenth. It also has been glossed over on a few others.


Living hard will take its toll...

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I remember seeing that documnentary. It was fun to watch. Of course this was way back when food TV Canada actually showed some great docs. They did a few on the Boccuse D'Or, which were great TV.

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I'd like to see a show with less fluff and more real cooking! My favourite tv-cook of all times - Delia Smith, because you could watch her show and actually learn something useful (she taught me how to make an omelette...) and she didn't talk down to you or fill the show with stupid fluff.

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Chris Cognac and Tony Bourdain visiting a location together!

SB  :biggrin:  :biggrin:

That already happened but no camera's involved.....I must admit, it was pretty cool...Tony is a stand up guy.....

Damn! Lot of people here would have loved to see that. :biggrin:

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Michael Ruhlman wrote about a CMC exam in Soul of a Chef but to my knowledge there has been no show and I doubt CIA would allow one.

I know of two shows that covered it at lenth. It also has been glossed over on a few others.

Does anyone know where copies of these episodes might be available?

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The CMC test was on tv. I think that it was Into the Fire that had a segment on it as well as the kithcen at the Greenbrier. I know local tv was up there when I was there to do a segment on the exam.

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What are some more ideas of foods, chefs, countries, new cooking gadgets, ingredients that people would like to see featured on a weekly food tv show? :smile:

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I'd like to see a show with less fluff and more real cooking! My favourite tv-cook of all times - Delia Smith, because you could watch her show and actually learn something useful (she taught me how to make an omelette...) and she didn't talk down to you or fill the show with stupid fluff.

yeah, where is delia lately we really enjoyed watching her show.

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I would kill to see Martin Picard from Au Pied de Cochon do a TV show similar to the cooking segments on his 'album' DVD.


Martin Mallet

<i>Poor but not starving student</i>

www.malletoyster.com

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Once again on eG we are trying to change what Food TV does.

<br><br>

In a sense, some changes are promising: There are remarks

from their executives that they do not have all the answers

and keep trying new things.

<br><br>

We need to agree: Their financial support is from

advertising. Really, the <b>business</b> they are in is

advertising. So, they need to attract an audience that will

do well for their advertisers.

<br><br>

There is a big problem with TV advertising: For a program

with an audience as narrow as is common on Food TV, an

advertiser really does not have very good data on what good

their advertising expenditure does. Or, the situation is

likely as it has long been: The advertisers know that 50% of

their ad budget is wasted; they just don't know which 50%.

<br><br>

Google gets nearly all of their revenue from advertising and,

thus, is also in the advertising business. Advantages of

Google include (a) better ad targeting than TV and (b) better

information on what ads did for the companies paying the

money. That's part of why, financially, Google is doing so

well and some old advertiser media efforts are declining.

<br><br>

But, I claim that the situation on Food TV should be much

better than it is now, that Food TV is making some big

mistakes.

<br><br>

I claim that US TV has a <i>narrow culture</i> and, thus, has

content that is much more narrow than it should be. That is,

in US TV, there is a relatively small group of people who, as

executives, producers, and directors, control the content.

Further, these people have nearly all had their careers in the

same <i>system</i> and, thus, adopted essentially the same ideas.

<br><br>

This narrow culture has a very narrow foundation in very

traditional TV and movies based essentially only on the

techniques of formula fiction. The main goal is to grab the

audience by the heart, the gut, or lower still, always below

the shoulders, never between the ears, mostly by creating for

the audience a <i>vicarious escapist fantasy emotional

experience</i> (VEFEE), hopefully with passion, pathos, and

poignancy, and the main technique for doing so is just drama.

<br><br>

Or, if the only tool a person has is a hammer, then they tend

to see every problem as a nail. The narrow culture sees all

the potential of TV only as different versions of VEFEE drama.

<br><br>

The influence of this narrow culture is so strong that, in

practice, nearly anything that passes through a motion picture

camera must be under the control of this narrow culture. Here

is a telling example: Sometimes on late night PBS TV, I saw

some programs on high school mathematics and physical science

being broadcast so that teachers could record the material and

play it in class. I have a solid background in mathematics

and physical science, watched these programs, and was just

horrified. No high school student trying to learn should ever

watch those programs. The programs were mostly filled with

fluff intended to be entertaining; for the actual content, it

was far too often just wrong, incompetent. The content was

just what one would expect from some movie people who had

forgotten everything about mathematics and physical science

above the fourth grade -- literally.

<br><br>

There was no reason at all to put movie people in charge of

educational programming for high school students, but, since

the programs did have to pass through motion picture cameras,

and since the influence of the narrow culture was so strong,

all the high school students got was worse on mathematics and

physical science than <i>I Love Lucy</i> since at least <i>Lucy</i>

didn't actually mislead anyone on mathematics or physical

science.

<br><br>

Right: Intended to teach high school students mathematics and

physical science but, in fact, worse than <i>I Love Lucy</i> --

literally. A serious source of rot in US culture.

<br><br>

Since the narrow culture controls even programs on mathematics

and physical science for high school students, there is little

hope for food and cooking.

<br><br>

Net, so far, in practice, in the US, if it passes through a

motion picture camera, then nearly always it has to be from

the <i>I Love Lucy</i> crowd. Yes, in <i>Jurassic Park,</i>

Spielberg got the DNA science okay, but he is a rare

exception.

<br><br>

News? The same. Food? The same. Sports? The same.

<i>Science</i>? The same. That crowd has only a hammer and

sees nearly everything as a nail. E.g., science programs are

nearly never about the science but all about the <b>drama</b>

that can be contrived -- geology becomes the violence of

volcanoes, the weather becomes the threat of hurricanes,

tornadoes, and global warming, ecology and nature become the

rape of nature by evil humans, planetary motion becomes the

risk of a "global killer" asteroid, rocket engineering becomes

"Will they all be killed in a big explosion?", etc.

<br><br>

Endless, pointless, useless, worthless,

<blockquote>

dra ra ra ra ra ra-ra ra ra-ra ma ma ma ma-ma ma-ma ma-ma

</blockquote>

Sickening.

<br><br>

This situation of this narrow culture is unique in all the

world. No other field is so consistently ignorant, oblivious,

and incompetent in its content. If airplanes were designed

like TV, then they would never get off the ground, but, if

such airplanes ever did get off the ground, then that would be

a very bad thing. If medical doctors were trained with

content like on TV, then no one would go to a hospital no

matter how bad the pain. If bridges were designed as on TV,

then no one would risk driving across. Highways would fall

into canyons; electrical systems would go snap, crackle, and

pop; bad food would kill millions of people a year; cars would

rarely start, rarely reach their destinations, and fall to

pieces spontaneously within a few months; on and on throughout

our civilization.

<br><br>

For the US educational system, TV drops out somewhere in the

fifth grade and gives up on anything more advanced, except for

mathematics at the second grade or lower except for sex

usually somewhere in high school.

<br><br>

In particular, the assumption of the narrow culture that the

audience is all below the fifth grade level is just that

narrow culture looking at themselves and in wildly strong

contradiction to the simple fact that nearly everyone else

functioning in our society is far above the fourth grade.

<br><br>

Yes, TV wants an audience that dribbles, drools, and drips,

has throbbing heart, boiling gut, pulsating groin, and a hard

vacuum between the ears, sucks up silly products like a giant

street vacuum cleaner, and is awash in money and eager to

spend it. Hmm ....

<br><br>

For those TV programs on high school mathematics, there was

one exception: I got into the middle, of a program on plane

geometry, quickly noticed some rare excellence, eagerly

watched to the end to see the credits. I did notice a lion by

his paw: The main contributor was A. Gleason, long in

mathematics at Harvard, with some help from T. Apostol, long

in mathematics at Cal Tech. Any high school student

interested in plane geometry should rush to see that program

and watch it several times. It was excellent, even beautiful,

elegant, polished, both simple and powerful, good fun, kept me

right on the front of my chair. A crown jewel of

civilization. Wonder what Gleason had to do with the TV

narrow culture to keep them from ruining his program!

<br><br>

What passes through a motion picture camera really can be

terrific stuff. Expensive? Not necessarily. One necessary

condition is to make absolutely positively totally certain

that no one from the narrow culture of old US TV and movies

has any role at all in the effort -- maybe an exception for

Spielberg.

<br><br>

Actually, there is some science programming from England that

is okay. Curiously, the world center of drama is better at

good content on science than the US which ruins science

programming with low grade drama.

<br><br>

The problem with US TV, then, is just that narrow culture

that somehow has a stranglehold on everything that passes

through a motion picture camera.

<br><br>

My guess for the reason is intellectual laziness: It takes a

little thought to see clearly (A) what is wrong with the old

narrow culture and (B) in particular cases, something better.

So, in practice, it is just so much easier to pass projects to

that narrow culture and forget about it than to buck that

system and create a new path. Easy, yes, but it also promises

to be increasingly costly; it cannot last.

<br><br>

So, TV slowly goes downhill. Eventually, when parts of TV

reach bottom, maybe there will start to be some changes, some

real content instead of just more brain-dead, below fifth

grade, <i>I Love Lucy</i>, VEFEE, formula fiction drama.

<br><br>

For food, maybe eventually Food TV will start to consider that

it is possible to have programs that are mostly about food.

<br><br>

But, at the Web site of Food TV, we can see

<blockquote>

Food Network (www.foodnetwork.com) is a unique lifestyle

network and website that strives to surprise and engage its

viewers with likable hosts, personalities, and the variety of

things they do with food.

</blockquote>

While I am interested in food and many things, I have no idea

why I would ever want to watch anything like what is described

here. I don't care about lifestyle, I don't really want to be

surprised or engaged, I have no interest in the "hosts" being

"likable" or "personalities". Absurd. Worthless. Nonsense.

For me, totally irrelevant, useless, waste of time.

<br><br>

I don't get anything from it; it's a half hour or an hour of

my time, and I leave with nothing to show for that time. I

learn nothing useful, and instead of entertaining it's

infuriating. Advertisers, take note.

<br><br>

So, I shouldn't watch it. And mostly I don't. Occasionally I

can watch some of Alton Brown, look past all the weird camera

angles and efforts at novelty and humor and concentrate on the

information he has. Sometimes he does have some okay

information although too often when he covers something I do

know about his information is a bit weak.

<br><br>

Food TV has some awesomely good expertise in cooking, but the

narrow culture wins out and makes sure that essentially all

the value of the expertise is ruined.

<br><br>

Apparently the narrow culture is so brain-dead that they are

unable in their own minds to see the value in anything except

their VEFEE drama and much of anything beyond the fourth

grade. So, that narrow culture is just oblivious to

everything else that might be on TV. They are like deaf

people at an orchestra concert, blind people at an art

gallery, or some naughty fourth grade boy in a high school

course. Except for variations on their old VEFEE drama, they

just don't get it.

<br><br>

There is a really good reason US TV was called "the great

wasteland".

<br><br>

For what Food TV should do? First, they should do the same

thing nearly all the rest of TV should do: Kick out the old,

brain-dead, narrow culture. Next they should wake up, look

around, and see the rest of civilization and notice that there

is enormous variety and content there.

<br><br>

In particular, and totally beyond the understanding of the

brain-dead, narrow culture, there is a very long list of

reasons people would want to watch something on TV; some of

these reasons are above the fourth grade and above the

shoulders.

<br><br>

For me, in food, near the top of the list is instructional

material so that I can be a better cook, with my hands, in my

kitchen, for my table. To me, this is a big thing. Getting

VEFEE drama instead of such instruction is sickening,

something I deeply, profoundly, bitterly, resent, hate, and

despise, something I very much wish I never see again; I feel

used, insulted, deceived, lied to, manipulated -- advertisers,

take note. I'm not pleased or entertained; I am

<b>TORQUED</b>.

<br><br>

Yes, the narrow culture will roll their incompetent eyes,

believing that anything at all instructional has to be boring,

tendentious, pedantic, insulting, pompous, pretentious,

offensive, etc. Well, to the brain-dead narrow culture and

how little they know, such will have to be their conclusions.

But, these conclusions are all totally false. And, the

solution is not rock bands, fast-cut video editing, haw-haw,

he-he, beauty queens, cleavages, or more from <i>I Love

Lucy</i>. There is nothing, nothing at all, wrong with

learning something, especially something one could use. Sure,

too many producers, in the VEFEE they wanted to create, wanted

to use pretense, pomposity, etc., but that garbage was just

more sick, useless, worthless, pointless VEFEE.

<br><br>

I do complain to my cable TV company and at each opportunity

tell them that their Internet service is terrific, their

telephone service is okay, but nearly all the content on their

cable TV is just <b>awful</b>. When video on the Internet

gets a little better, I will drop cable TV service -- I'm

looking forward to it. TV really is a "great wasteland", and

I hate it. Advertisers take note.

<br><br>

E.g., for the most recent Super Bowl, I watched one play.

They wouldn't let me see the details of the pass defense at

which time I concluded that their coverage was worthless and

clicked away and never returned. But, on the Internet, I did

watch all the ads. They were much better than the game.

<br><br>

I kid you not: I <b>HATE</b> nearly all of TV, yes, including

Food TV. And I watch very little of it. Advertisers take

note: You are nearly always paying for junk, and I

<b>HATE</b> it.

<br><br>

I'm not against all of drama; while nearly always I would

prefer something informative, a little drama occasionally is

okay. But, there is a lot of drama already recorded.

Actually, it does appear that the movies made between about

1935 and 1955, from only 21 years and including several years

of the Depression and several years of WWII, still are about

the best drama anyone knows how to do. Turner Classic Movies

(TCM) transmits some of the best 24 hours a day. I have a

personal collection of old movies, e.g., all the old

Rathbone-Bruce <i>Holmes.</i> I've got plenty of drama.

<br><br>

My guess is that nothing will change Food TV, the rest of TV,

the narrow culture, or their stranglehold on TV. Typically

that is what happens with ossified cultures; they don't

change; instead, they just die off. Eventually from some

other quite different sources there will be some good content

of much greater variety on video, and the old narrow culture

and their stranglehold and work will just be set aside.

Maybe we can get them jobs dusting camera lenses or mopping

the floor from food spills -- finally something somewhat

useful.

<br><br>

My guess is that the Internet will be the big change.

Generally, the Internet is putting some severe financial

pressures on old media.

<br><br>

In particular, anyone with a digital video camera, personal

computer with some video editing software, a good Internet

connection, and some good ideas for video content can develop

such content and upload it to some video hosting sites that

will pay based on number of views. When enough people notice

that there is some money to be made here, then we will get a

river of new content, some of which will be quite good, and

very little of which will be from the old narrow culture.

<br><br>

And we will get some means to find the content we like

(working on it!).

<br><br>

In the meanwhile, I can watch some <i>America's Test

Kitchen,</i> Rick Steves, Burt Wolfe, BBC science programs,

old Rathbone-Bruce <i>Holmes,</i> or, better yet, get some

videos of lectures from Princeton, Xerox PARC, Kavli, etc.

The lectures on asymptotic freedom and the strong force were

terrific. Given that Intel is promising processors with 80

cores each, it was good to see what Microsoft is doing about

concurrency. It was good to see what Google's P. Norvig is

doing in machine processing of English. So far, for cooking,

the situation is poor.

<br><br>

I'm interested in food but am rarely willing to watch anything

on it at all on Food TV.


Edited by project (log)

What would be the right food and wine to go with

R. Strauss's 'Ein Heldenleben'?

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project -- that was one of the most thoughtful, well written, and most importantly honest assessments of foodtv (and tv in general) that I have ever read.

Thank you for putting the time and effort into that post.

I was wondering if I could, with your permission, re-post it on my website.

Video about food and cooking instruction is my current hobby, and I think about it frequently. You have put into words the same things that have been running through my mind for quite a while.

Keep up the good work.


Andrew Baber

True I got more fans than the average man but not enough loot to last me

to the end of the week, I live by the beat like you live check to check

If you don't move yo' feet then I don't eat, so we like neck to neck

A-T-L, Georgia, what we do for ya?

The Gentleman Gourmand

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project -- that was one of the most thoughtful, well written, and most importantly honest assessments of foodtv (and tv in general) that I have ever read.

Thank you for putting the time and effort into that post.

I was wondering if I could, with your permission, re-post it on my website.

Video about food and cooking instruction is my current hobby, and I think about it frequently.  You have put into words the same things that have been running through my mind for quite a while.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks for your comments.

Sure, go ahead and re-post it.


What would be the right food and wine to go with

R. Strauss's 'Ein Heldenleben'?

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i'd like to see less "let me show you where to eat" shows. they're up to what - 30 now?

we've got the one day show, the weekend trip show, the out of the way show, the really out of the way show, the out of the way but you can order their stuff online show, the out of the way eats on a cross-country roadtrip show.

it's tiresome and redundant. just bring back best of and be done with it.

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