Henderson the Bread Fascist?

[Kikujiro]

Went into SJ the other day to buy sourdough and was disappointed to find they didn't have any. Thought no more of it until today, when I was told that Fergus was trying to get rid of breads made with non-historically-British processes (i.e., the good ones -- sourdough, rye ...)

Raw peas I can live with, but if my source is correct (likely but I haven't had it confirmed from SJ itself) this is 'rigour' gone too far, to the point of destructive and pointless limitation. SJ sourdough is not only the best bread they do/did, it's the best bread I've found in the area (Moro sourdough, hardly fit for breakfast, aside).

Let's picket outside or something.

[Simon Majumdar]

Not that I eat a lot of bread anymore. Let us not forget

CARBS =DEATH

That being said, I always found the sourdough to be the weakest of the breads they did there so it will be no great loss.

I am afraid I will bludgeon through the picket line like the worst of wapping Scabs.

S

[Kikujiro]

That being said, I always found the sourdough to be the weakest of the breads they did there so it will be no great loss.

Genuinely curious to hear that. Ah well. I stand by my praise of it.

[macrosan]

I don't have a view on StJohn sourdough, but I do have a view on a picket line. Great idea, Kiku. There is going to be a large mob of eG's in town on August 31 for the Dim Summary, and no doubt this will be preceded and followed by libationary activity at selected Majumdarian locations. This will doubtless result in a large mob of pissed eG's sufficient in number not only to form the picket line, but also to breach it.

[magnolia]

This is indeed sad news, particularly given that the state of bread in London is deplorable and embarrassingly bad to begin with, to lose a good one is a blow.

But I fear you falling for the deplorable and futile British habit of grumbling minus action = perpetual miscontent.

Take your fears straight to the source, tell the guy with the ponytail or the ginger-haired woman behind the bakery counter how much you LOVE St John's sourdough and ask if there's anything that you (and other customers) can do to make a case for keeping it! Surely if enough customers complain they'll keep it on. I've always found St John to be very customer service oriented, down to the time a few years ago when I couldn't face the pressure of making my own sweet shortbread pie crust and they did one for me in my own pie dish.

If that doesn't work, go to Poilane or Paul, both make great sourdough - the one I bought from Poilane lasted almost 10 days without getting stale.

[Simon Majumdar]

This is indeed sad news, particularly given that the state of bread in London is deplorable and embarrassingly bad to begin with, to lose a good one is a blow.

Are you comparing bread in London to bread in NY?!!!

Bread in NY is without doubt the worst I have ever had. Laughably bad. Almost as embarrassing as their attempts to serve cheese, but let's not go there. Where on earth are you buying bread in London?

Within a block of where I live, I can buy from four different sources all of which are excellent. Even the crappy Safeway on Whitecross St has a better bread selection that any I have found in NY apart from artisnal bakeries.

What are you talking about Mags? you are normally an oasis of common sense amongst the US hordes

S

[Kikujiro]

Magnolia: thanks; I will. Poilane bread is great but neither it nor Paul are a short walk away from me as is SJ (or, even closer, SJ bread at Flaneur).

Macrosan: yay.

ps. re. Simon's CARBS = DEATH comment, this article from the New York Times [free, registration required] is well worth reading despite its length.

[Simon Majumdar]

ps. re. Simon's CARBS = DEATH comment, this article from the New York Times [free, registration required] is well worth reading despite its length.

NEVER DOUBT A MAJUMDAR BROTHER AGAIN!!

S

[Kikujiro]

NEVER DOUBT A MAJUMDAR BROTHER AGAIN!!

Except on the subject of SJ sourdough, of course. Of course, I'm sure it doesn't live up to Little Chef

Personally, I can't face life without wheat products, but I do try to (a) avoid them sometimes; (b) go to the gym.

3 people have already asked about the sourdough at Flaneur. Apparently they're thinking of starting a petition.

[magnolia]

3 people have already asked about the sourdough at Flaneur. Apparently they're thinking of starting a petition.

Good - maybe this will enable us to actually patronise Flâneur and not gawp at its prices, speculate on how it makes its rent payments, and wonder if its a money-laundering operation !

Simon - I was actually thinking of the bread in France, which is so close to UK geographically, yet so far gastronomically (I know, I know, we differ on this point!).

But to your point about the bread in New York - restaurant bread in New York is by and large WAY better than it is in London - and you don't have to go searching for it. You are lucky to live in a part of London - possibly the only part ! - where proprietors actually care what they sell to people.

In my opinion, most London restaurants serve bread because they think they have to, I'd rather have no bread than bread that looks, smells and tastes like styrofoam. As far as supermarkets go... I haven't been to Safeway...and Waitrose is OK for baguettes and the Sally Clarks breads. But Sainsbury's bread is horrible, tasteless and soggy. And in general, London does not have anything like the quantity of places to get bread that's at least decent - that New York does.

An unscientific list off the top of my head: Columbus Bakery (both east and west side); outrageously priced Grace's Marketplace and Eli's as well as Zabars and all of its offspring Vinegar Factories, Vinaigrette factory - whatever they're called... ; the newish place under the 59th Street Bridge; Agata and Valentina; Dean & Deluca; Citarella east and west; even the more humble D'Agostinos and the unfortunately-named Hot & Crusty...

[Simon Majumdar]

I have to use a Steve P'ism here but anyone who quotes Zaba'rs as a source of good bread CANNOT be taken seriously

And restaurant bread in NY sucks even at The Grammercy it sucks. FACT

S

[magnolia]

I have to use a Steve P'ism here but anyone who quotes Zaba'rs as a source of good bread CANNOT be taken seriously

And restaurant bread in NY sucks even at The Grammercy it sucks.  FACT

S

Zabars's bread is far better that of its closest equivalent in London - "Boo-bird". So n'yeah !

Anyway, what's wrong with the bread at Gramercy !? If it's really that bad - definitely say something and they *will* take you seriously. FACT

Oh, I forgot the 14th Street greenmarket and City Bakery.

[Simon Majumdar]

I have tried both the city bakery and the 14th st Greenmarket. I would forget them if I was you.

Zabar's bread is the foulest cardboard ever. I just know you are joking

S

[Akiko]

sigh, I love bread and rice... Simon, you can't tell me that you've given up rice and naan?

I read that article in the NY Times Magazine too and all I can think is, I'm Japanese, the traditional diet consists of larger amounts of rice and soba noodles with lots of veggies and small portions of meat and fish. How many obese Japanese people have you met?

Anyhow, I would love for someone to list great places to buy excellent bread in London, especially with detail as to what bread each place is especially good at producing.

And Simon, have you had bread from Orwashers? OR Sullivan Street Bakery? And the greenmarket and many other bakeries in Manhattan make excellent 7, 12, or 14 grain bread that is dense, nutty, with great texture.

You should stop expressing so vehemently that there is no good bread in Manhattan. Someone might think you are being serious

(I agree that the average bread basket in Manhattan is not going to be worth looking at... but then, I might venture to say the same about London... plus, you don't have to pay extra for the bread basket here).

[Simon Majumdar]

You should stop expressing so vehemently that there is no good bread in Manhattan.  Someone might think you are being serious

I am

I find the bread offerings in Manhattan to be risible. That is not to say that I have not had good bread in the US ( Mansion at Turtle Creek take a bow- superb ) but on the whole I do not find it compares with here and as Magnolia quite rightly says, neither compare with Paris

I have given up Rice and Naan. Did you not hear me

RICE + NAAN=CARBS = DEATH

S

[Akiko]

Your posts always make me laugh. (In a good way.)

They are also very informative, by the way.

[Tonyfinch]

Simon-you'll have to eat some roti and naan at New Tayyab. Please try not to die there.

[Liza]

So...would it be criminal neglicence if I suggested Simon try Tribeca Oven's rye bread? To dismiss all of New York's bread is lunacy.

[Simon Majumdar]

So...would it be criminal neglicence if I suggested Simon try Tribeca Oven's rye bread? To dismiss all of New York's bread is lunacy.

As was Magnolia'a attempt to dismiss all of London's

Fortunately, I have met her and know that this was a minor aberration not complete insanity

S

[Liza]

So...your dismissal is insanity? Good. We're agreed.

[Clerkenwellian]

Incidentally the St John bakery have also stopped making ciabatta, which wasn't particularly authentic but was nevertheless yummy. Shall have to get used to trudging all the way up Upper St to Euphorium...

[Gavin Jones]

Welcome Clerkwellian.

I can understand the pain of trudging up to Islington (See Simon M passim).

There is however a good corset shop (don't ask) in Islington so you will be able to take your bread related carbs (=death) like a man, or indeed a ladywoman.

[Kikujiro]

Lot of us round here, in't there?

[Clerkenwellian]

Kikujiro posted on Aug 26 2002, 04:34 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Lot of us round here, in't there?

clearly Clerkenwell is stuffed with internet-using foodies.

Incidentally, does anyone else get their fruit/veg at the slightly sinister (but not at all bad) place on Aldersgate Street, opposite and along from Barbican tube?

[Robert Schonfeld]

Simon, I like your style, but I can't identify with your position. Since there is in fact some very good bread available in New York and elsewhere in the US, in particular in California, all I can imagine is that the bread in London must be good beyond my wildest dreams.

Can you tell us in some detail about both the inferiority of bread in New York, and the superiority of what's available in London?

Maybe at some point we can engage in some reciprocal tasting via overnight boxes.

ps: The bread at Gramercy Tavern is, unfortunately, lousy.