Saturday Night Paris Restaurants open

[Bux]

Except that the surprise menu at L'Astrance has been widely written up, so there is no real surprise to it.

It's going on two years since we've eaten at l'Astrance, so my memory of certain details may be fuzzy. I vividly recall being grilled on many of the dishes. That it to say we were asked to identify components of some dishes as well as to identify the wines which were poured with the labels covered. Thus I suppose we knew little about the actual dishes on the menu other than that it contained many of the same dishes as on the other menu, but was slightly longer and came paired with wines. I think the meal was had shortly before eGullet came online, so I couldn't have read about it here.

My point nonetheless was less about l'Astrance, than a general one. I've had enough experiences with surprise menus to understand that they may contain dishes I would not have ordered and that often enough, these dishes have been eye openers. It's hard to offer this as any sort of a hard and fast rule. Often enough there's a dish that's not on the tasting menu that grabs my attention because it's a food I love, or a dish that's made the chef's reputation.

One of the things I remember was a very limited wine list of very inexpensive wines. They were, as I recall, all in the low 100 franc range and mostly from the Languedoc, southwest and perhaps, the Loire.

[Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review]

The wine list is now expanded and quite laudable, although as I mentioned above, the prestige Bordeaux and Burgundy selections do not really go with much of the food there. Loire and Languedoc are the main areas to think about, Rhone also to some extent. My recollection is that Alsace is woefully underrepresented (or maybe the Alsatian selections were food unfriendly like the Zind-Humbrechts), but what else is new in Paris?

One of the reasons I don't like surprise menus is because you don't know how to pair wines with the food. Restaurants try to get around this by providing a glass of wine to go with the food, but I find that such wines often are not interesting. I suppose someone less concerned/obsessed with wine than I would not notice or would be willing to overlook the wines served with the food, considering them as subordinate to the food.

Best regards,

Claude Kolm

The Fine Wine Review

[lizziee]

Claude,

Do you find that when you get wines by the glass that you don't really have a chance to "experience" the wine? I enjoy noticing the changes of a wine over time from that first sip to the last.

[Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review]

Claude,

Do you find that when you get wines by the glass that you don't really have a chance to "experience" the wine?  I enjoy noticing the changes of a wine over time from that first sip to the last.

Yes, definitely, Lizzie. I like to watch how the wine develops in the glass and also how it matches with different courses. Also, wines by the glass in restaurants may have been open for an indeterminate amount of time, which can greatly affect their freshness.

Best regards,

Claude Kolm

The Fine Wine Review

[Bux]

I have mixed feelings about wine pairings by the glass versus enjoying a bottle as it develops over a meal. Both have their merits. In general I enjoy having more than one one with a meal and that has to shorten the time experience with any one wine anyway. Two half bottles will allow less time with each wine as will dining with dining and sharing a bottle with others. It's all relative. Obviously a glass of wine precludes certain experiences.

I find Claude's remark

One of the reasons Idon't like surprise menus is because you don't know how to pair wines with the food. Restaurants try to get around this by providing a glass of wine to go with the food, but I find that such wines often are not interesting. I suppose someone less concerned/obsessed with wine than I would not notice or would be willing to overlook the wines served with the food, considering them as subordinate to the food.

quite telling in a few ways. It may seem obvious that a connoisseur might want to select his own wine and not want the limitation imposed by the house selection by the glass, even when these are specially paired with the meal. Nevertheless, I suspect many with an honest but perhaps limited appreciation of wine, would consider the chance to have paired wines the maximum experience, while others with greater enthusiasm might not.

Back to the main issue, when I take a suprise menu, I pretty much have to lay myself in someone else's hands, but as much as I enjoy (and hope I appreciate) wine, Claude is correct in that I tend to consider the wine subordinate to the food.

[pirate]

If you're having a great bottle, the food is subordinate.Otherwise not.

I always have a chateaubriand bearnaise when drinking Romanee-Conti. the wine not the domaine

[Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review]

If you're having a great bottle, the food is subordinate.Otherwise not.

I always have a chateaubriand bearnaise when drinking Romanee-Conti. the wine not the domaine

How does one drink a domaine? It's not liquid.

[fresh_a]

That's what he said: "The wine, not the domaine"

[Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review]

That's what he said: "The wine, not the domaine"

So if it is obvious which one can be drunk, then it is redundant to specify it.

[fresh_a]

That's what he said: "The wine, not the domaine"

So if it is obvious which one can be drunk, then it is redundant to specify it.

EXACTLY- that's why I pointed out your having "specified" it!

[Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review]

Except that I am not the one who specified it.

[pirate]

Je suis desol\'e I was referring to the other Domaine wines.

[Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review]

Got it the first time. Hence the in my post.

Edited April 9, 2003 by Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review (log)

[fresh_a]

Great! Sorry, Claude!

[boris]

One more question,

So if we are wanting to make reservations for L'Astrance for May 31st, do we call April 30th?

Thanks again

[boris]

Désolé!!

....L'Astrance is now closed on Saturday!!

Mark E.

[Andy Lynes]

Would members have any suggestions for a venue for a light-ish dinner on a Saturday night in Paris after a blow out lunch at Le Meurice? I'm thinking along the lines of some food at a wine bar or somewhere like Pinxo where we can have just a few small plates (if I have the right idea that Pinxo is a kind of French take on Tapas). L'Atelier might be a possibility, although I was there in March and I'm keen to try somewhere I haven't been before. A simple bistro might also do the trick. We'll be staying at Le Meurice, so somewhere central would be good and cost isn't really that much of an issue (it will be my 40 birthday and I think that's a good enough excuse to splash some cash around).

[Bux]

Pinxo, as much as I've been a fan of Dutournier at Carré des Feuillants, was a bit of a disappointment for us. I think it's exactly the right sort of place, but we found the dishes very uneven and short of the spark I expected and might find all over San Sebastian, for instance. L'Atelier de JR, on the other hand offered dish after dish that was right on the mark, albeit it at a higher price. Perhaps it was because I regarded Dutournier so highly that I was disappointed to get dishes that seemed lackluster and without care or inspiration.

Paris is not yet a great city for grazing. Two places have been recommended to me, but I haven't tried either. Both are on the left bank. Bellota Bellota in the 7th and Da Rosa in the 6th. Here are my notes on the suggestions made to me.

Da Rosa

01 40 51 00 09

62 rue de Seine

75006 Paris

A shop on rue de Seine, which has a wine and small plates menu.

Bellotta-Bellotta

01 53 59 96 96

18 rue Jean Nicot

75007 Paris

A wonderful place where everything you eat comes out of boxes, jars and tins except the fabulous Spanish hams. Between Saint Dominique and Univeristé, 2 blocks west of Esplanade des Invalides.

A simple bistro might also do the trick very well, although after a fabulous lunch, I rarely have the appetite for a full meal no matter how simple.

[Poppy Quince]

You might think about Caviar Kaspia on Place de la Madeleine for blini and caviar or smoked salmon, accompanied by champagne or a flask of very cold vodka. Appropriately celebratory without being over the top after a major lunch.

[Dorie Greenspan]

Les Papilles might be a good choice for a light meal. It's essentially a wine shop with take-out foie gras, hams and charcuterie, but in the evening there's one set dinner menu (about 30 euros, I think) and a small menu of simple "assembled" dishes like smoked salmon, Spanish ham, salads etc. For wine, you just pick what you want from the selection on the shelves (they add 6 euros to the retail price -- at least they did the last time I was there). The shop/restaurant was opened earlier this year by two former Taillevent cooks and is located on rue Gay-Lussac, close to the Luxembourg Garden. Not on your side of town, but ...

Le Verre Vole, in the 10th, is a similar kind of place. Primarily a wine shop, it, too, offers tasty assembled dishes, a couple of hot plates and a really good choice of wines.

In neither place will you have to have a "traditional" multi-course meal.

If you decide you've got room for a bistro meal, you could just walk out Le Meurice's back door and go to L'Ardoise (on rue du Mont Thabor). I haven't been there in a while, but it continues to get good reviews.

Finally, going to a great seafood restaurant, like Le Dome, and ordering a bunch of oysters or a plateau fruits de mer, could be a great way to finish what should be a pretty delicious day.

[John Talbott]

Pinxo, as much as I've been a fan of Dutournier at Carré des Feuillants, was a bit of a disappointment for us.  L'Atelier de JR, on the other hand offered dish after dish that was right on the mark, albeit it at a higher price.

←

I realize it's too late to catch you but for the record, I must respectfully disagree with Bux. Pinxo has a charming friendly staff and a wonderful array of mezzes whereas sitting side-by-side at that horrid bar at L'Atelier after negotiating the unwelcoming no outside doorknob entrance is so offputting and the food while in small portions, is so pricey, it's not worth it.

Finally, going to a great seafood restaurant, like Le Dome, and ordering a bunch of oysters or a plateau fruits de mer, could be a great way to finish what should be a pretty delicious day.

I'd even go farther and suggest the Bistrot du Dome around the corner, where you can eat light by simply ordering a couple of starters such as oysters, tartare of salmon or coques.

Les Papilles might be a good choice for a light meal.

Also a good idea as are many of the other wine bars mentioned in the wine bar thread.

[John Whiting]

. . . sitting side-by-side at that horrid bar at L'Atelier after negotiating the unwelcoming no outside doorknob entrance is so offputting and the food while in small portions, is so pricey, it's not worth it.

I'm delighted to hear John echo so unequivocally my own minute-by-minute chronicle of an hour spent in this depressing place. Here

[Andy Lynes]

Thanks to all who have replied with some really excellent suggestions. My only problem now is that they all sound so good that I'm going to have trouble choosing. The idea of just falling out of the hotel into a bistro is a very tempting one, especially as Gary Marshall had such a good time at L'Ardoise recently, although I'm almost certain that my wife's appetite won't extend to it.

The wine shops sound intriguing and John's comments on Pinxo are also encouraging, albeit countered by Bux's criticisms. All this and still the wine bar thread to review. I should add that my trip is not until the end of January so any further suggestions are welcome.

[John Whiting]

. . . especially as Gary Marshall had such a good time at L'Ardoise recently, although I'm almost certain that my wife's appetite won't extend to it.

I was not happy with the rather rushed, scatty ambiance and did not find that the food made up for it. I might have thought I'd just struck a bad evening, except that later that year Pudlo Paris gave it one of its rare Ay! Ay! Ay! write-offs.

[Andy Lynes]

We will actually be dining in The Winter garden at Le Meurice rather than the main restaurant. Does anyone know what menu is served there? Is it more in the brasserie style? If so, I'm now thinking that a bistro meal might well be do-able.