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That Sweet Enemy


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I was replying to feedback. I guess I am slagging American fastfood, yeah, and I will continue to do so. It's digusting. It doesn't reflect my opinion of food in America as I have had many a fine meal in the States. It is inextricabley attached to American culture however, so denying it doesn't resolve the issue.
What issue is that, exactly?

Is anyone else amused by the argument over "fusion," originally a combination of Asian and - you guessed it - French food?

Possessive by the way has 4 s's.  OOPs.
That's what editors are for. :smile:

I provocatively suggested American Cuisine was made up of hamburgers, pizza, and hotdogs...or fastfood, and the comments followed. So the issue was "is it".

I'm not sure that Fusion is a mix of French but European encompassing French and South East Asian.

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Okay...I accept the wikipedia definition however I'm not sure it's that contemporary. Below is a london restaurant website guide definition:

Fusion Food

A guide to fusion food, fusion cuisine and fusion restaurants in London

*snippity snip a lot of good information concerning fusion*

Fusion Food in the UK

Peter Gordon is often hailed as the person who introduced fusion cooking to the UK. He grew up in New Zealand, learned his trade in Melbourne and spent the next few years travelling through Nepal, India and South East Asia. On his return he launched the Sugar Club restaurant in Wellington and in 1996 brought the idea to London, starting off in Notting Hill and subsequently moving to Soho in 1998.

Fusion food can be sampled not only at specific fusion restaurants across the capital, many London restaurants now include some fusion food on the menu even if it is not the overriding cuisine, such is its popularity.

Peter Gordon was born in 1981. Postdating "fusion" in the US that dates back a bit older than that.

That being said, it is understandable that you should be proud of Peter Gordon and his success.

I appreciate your gracious acceptance of the facts.

We do love you kiwichef. Especially when you can take a couple of lumps and still come out smiling.

Peter Gordon wasn't born in 1981. He would be about 40 now so he was born sometime in the 60's. No-one can claim Fusion as their own, however New Zealand and Australia are recognised as the contemporary leaders, due to their proximity to South East Asia. If you go down-under you will encounter a myriad of restaurants combining Asian and European flavours.

I accept Wikipedia's opinion, but I'm not sure it's correct. After all Wikipedia is a subscriber based information source.

I note their is no mention of the Carribean or MesoAmerica.

Thanks Annecross. I enjoy a debate.

Upon reflection, he must have been born earlier than 1981. It seems he likes to hide his age, but IMO he should be proud of what he has accomplished in his tender years. I was born in 1963, and am only 43, and my birth post dates fusion cuisine in the US. Are you honestly trying to say that Peter Gordon has had more influence on "fusion" cuisine throughout the world than Wolfgang Puck and his predeccessor? And, although he started young, there are certainly labor laws in NZ that would have prevented him from slaving in the kitchen before a certain age.

There is an index to Tex-Mex under fusion. Tex-Mex includes MesoAmerican food in the cuisine. Very old MesoAmerican, when you consider the tamal and the tortillia.

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I'm not going to address Kiwichef's post, as Busboy has alread done so far more eloquently than I could, except to ask - have you traveled extensively in the US?

I thought I had made myself clear on that one.

I was addressing that to kiwichef. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

Hi there,

I've read the feedback and respond as follows.

Firstly I've travelled extensively throughout the states, from east to west and north to south. My fondest food memories include, Chicago pizza, New York pastrami sandwiches, Chesapeake Bay crabs, and Texas BBQ spare ribs. I also enjoyed lots of great hamburgers, and magnificent ceasar salads. But if I were asked to define American Cuisine I would be left searching, and so it seems would others. Nice to see I provoked such vigorous debate.

As far as the comments from the fast food feminist. Why just women, don't men cook? But that's not the point is it. Food is life, to be enjoyed and savoured. Fast food is purchased at a sit on your ass drive through, scoffed in heavy traffic, and washed down with a Big Gulp of coke....a billion calories later, you feel just great right. Proud of fast food culture? No way Jose. I hate travelling around the world and seeing a dirty great M in the distance, for me its abhorrent. I remember going to Disneyworld and seeing these fat families all over the place, gorging at fast food joints, and I felt sick. So sad. So very sad. Whose taking responsilbilty.

Great to see the jibe about NZ cuisine too. Fair enough. For that writers information, New Zealand was colonised by the English, so alot of our food is English. Lately however it has a very asian/english mix, which has been touted as Fusion cuisine. The origins of which lie with Peter Gordon, a talented NZ chef with restaurants in Auckland, London and New York. But our culture is Maori, and through our indigenous roots we have a largely undiscovered cuisine, rich language, wicked music and history. Perhaps you might discover it one day.

Our lamb of course is exported to the world, as are our dairy products, and wine.

Talking wine, I saw another enlightened writer take a snide at our vinos and in particular our Savignon Blancs. But why just Savignon Blancs? He forgot our wonderful Merlots, Pinot Noirs, Pinot Gris, Chardonnay's, Syrahs and the list goes on. You must try them as well, dear writer.

Cheers

Rob

I suppose that if you'd written this in the first place you might have sounded less twit-ish on your original post. However, the fact that you actually admit that there are fine bits of American cooking and still embrace the "fat American" and McDonalds "supersize me" stereotypes like a cheap hooker on a drunken payday suggests, however, that your only agenda is a little slagging. Fair enough, but it weakens your case.

Regarding the SB's, the other wines (not to say that they aren't worthy) haven't really washed over our shores. I will keep an eye out.

Fusion, btw, has many fathers.

baaaaa

-Chas

PS. You should edit out the possesive apostrophe on "chardonnay's"

Thanks for your comments Chas.

I was replying to feedback. I guess I am slagging American fastfood, yeah, and I will continue to do so. It's digusting. It doesn't reflect my opinion of food in America as I have had many a fine meal in the States. It is inextricabley attached to American culture however, so denying it doesn't resolve the issue.

I don't agree with your comments regarding Fusion. As outlined below with Annecross I firmly beleive that the Antipodes is the home of today's Fusion Cuisine. It's worthy of note that Wikipidia is made up of comments from users, so it is in no way definitive.

Lastly, apologies for the grammatical error.

Cheers

Rob

Possessive by the way has 4 s's. OOPs.

Americans are a people, America is a nation.

“due to there respect for chefs” - I assume you meant their not there.

The only famous Kiwi I can think of is Peter Jackson and he looks to be a member of the fast food nation.

I have had several bottles of NZ SB and one PN, and all were quite nice. NZ lamb is excellent, but so is our Colorado.

Is fusion always deliberate or is there variety that is organic in its assimilation? In other words do we call what this fellow in NZ is doing, or what Puck did here in the U.S., fusion and then in the same breath call Carribean food or that of southern Louisiana. Is this why French food endures, because of its development over time with myriad influences, by folks who took this development seriously.

Yes of course I meant their....dear dear me LOL

2 other famous kiwis for you: Edmund Hillary who was the first man to climb Mt Everest, and Russell Crowe (born in NZ lives in Aussie), and of course there are many other famous kiwis, including the bird.

Peter Jackson by the way has shed 20 kilos, so he is a different man these days.

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I'm not going to address Kiwichef's post, as Busboy has alread done so far more eloquently than I could, except to ask - have you traveled extensively in the US?

I thought I had made myself clear on that one.

I was addressing that to kiwichef. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

Hi there,

I've read the feedback and respond as follows.

Firstly I've travelled extensively throughout the states, from east to west and north to south. My fondest food memories include, Chicago pizza, New York pastrami sandwiches, Chesapeake Bay crabs, and Texas BBQ spare ribs. I also enjoyed lots of great hamburgers, and magnificent ceasar salads. But if I were asked to define American Cuisine I would be left searching, and so it seems would others. Nice to see I provoked such vigorous debate.

As far as the comments from the fast food feminist. Why just women, don't men cook? But that's not the point is it. Food is life, to be enjoyed and savoured. Fast food is purchased at a sit on your ass drive through, scoffed in heavy traffic, and washed down with a Big Gulp of coke....a billion calories later, you feel just great right. Proud of fast food culture? No way Jose. I hate travelling around the world and seeing a dirty great M in the distance, for me its abhorrent. I remember going to Disneyworld and seeing these fat families all over the place, gorging at fast food joints, and I felt sick. So sad. So very sad. Whose taking responsilbilty.

Great to see the jibe about NZ cuisine too. Fair enough. For that writers information, New Zealand was colonised by the English, so alot of our food is English. Lately however it has a very asian/english mix, which has been touted as Fusion cuisine. The origins of which lie with Peter Gordon, a talented NZ chef with restaurants in Auckland, London and New York. But our culture is Maori, and through our indigenous roots we have a largely undiscovered cuisine, rich language, wicked music and history. Perhaps you might discover it one day.

Our lamb of course is exported to the world, as are our dairy products, and wine.

Talking wine, I saw another enlightened writer take a snide at our vinos and in particular our Savignon Blancs. But why just Savignon Blancs? He forgot our wonderful Merlots, Pinot Noirs, Pinot Gris, Chardonnay's, Syrahs and the list goes on. You must try them as well, dear writer.

Cheers

Rob

I suppose that if you'd written this in the first place you might have sounded less twit-ish on your original post. However, the fact that you actually admit that there are fine bits of American cooking and still embrace the "fat American" and McDonalds "supersize me" stereotypes like a cheap hooker on a drunken payday suggests, however, that your only agenda is a little slagging. Fair enough, but it weakens your case.

Regarding the SB's, the other wines (not to say that they aren't worthy) haven't really washed over our shores. I will keep an eye out.

Fusion, btw, has many fathers.

baaaaa

-Chas

PS. You should edit out the possesive apostrophe on "chardonnay's"

Thanks for your comments Chas.

I was replying to feedback. I guess I am slagging American fastfood, yeah, and I will continue to do so. It's digusting. It doesn't reflect my opinion of food in America as I have had many a fine meal in the States. It is inextricabley attached to American culture however, so denying it doesn't resolve the issue.

I don't agree with your comments regarding Fusion. As outlined below with Annecross I firmly beleive that the Antipodes is the home of today's Fusion Cuisine. It's worthy of note that Wikipidia is made up of comments from users, so it is in no way definitive.

Lastly, apologies for the grammatical error.

Cheers

Rob

Possessive by the way has 4 s's. OOPs.

(Stop being reasonable. Now I have to be reasonable, too.)

I knew taking a shot at your grammar was a risk, given my mediocre spelling and terrible typing. Touche.

As for the fast food thing, I'm hardly a fan -- though I do crave a Big Mac about once a year. I suppose it was the fact that you chose to define the entire culture in terms of that which was worst about it what set me off. Slag McD's all you want, but acknowledge that there is much to be admired in the US, as well, and I promise to lay off the mutton jokes. Oh, and most of my friends aren't fat (though, in our 40's, we ain't rail thin). Very complicated issue here -- race, class, media, etc. Shouldn't be bandied about lightly.

Cheers.

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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I think the whole Fusion Debate is a bit silly. There was no tomato in "original" Italian cuisine until the New World was discovered/invaded - so does that mean that Italian cuisine since the 15th/16th centuries is no longer pure, it is South American / Italian ??? And potatoes in Indian or Thai food. Or rice (from Spain, probably, via the Moors via wherever in the East it originated) in medieval English food - is rice pudding then Chinese/Arab/Spanish/English?

Happy Feasting

Janet (a.k.a The Old Foodie)

My Blog "The Old Foodie" gives you a short food history story each weekday day, always with a historic recipe, and sometimes a historic menu.

My email address is: theoldfoodie@fastmail.fm

Anything is bearable if you can make a story out of it. N. Scott Momaday

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[

Is anyone else amused by the argument over "fusion," originally a combination of Asian and - you guessed it - French food?

I'm roflmao. Especially considering the lengths and breadths that are being reached.

Asian and French in Haiti is just regular old food...

:biggrin:

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I was replying to feedback. I guess I am slagging American fastfood, yeah, and I will continue to do so. It's digusting. It doesn't reflect my opinion of food in America as I have had many a fine meal in the States. It is inextricabley attached to American culture however, so denying it doesn't resolve the issue.
What issue is that, exactly?
I provocatively suggested American Cuisine was made up of hamburgers, pizza, and hotdogs...or fastfood, and the comments followed. So the issue was "is it"
I am puzzled, you mention New York pastrami, Chesapeake Bay crabs, and a few other things that you enjoyed here, yet still cling to the "fast food is American Cuisine" cliche?

I said:

Kiwichef, what you ate here is our cuisine. Taco trucks. Ethiopian restaurants. Bahn Mi counters. Chez Panisse. Sushi and schawarma. The French Laundry. Pizza joints and hot dog stands. Felafel and french fries. That's the real genius of the USA - that there is an infinite variety of ways to eat like an American.
Just to pile on a bit I'd add Tex-Mex, Cajun and Creole, New England clam chowder, Southern Maryland stuffed ham, corn on the cob, blueberry cobbler, tamales, BBQ (Eastern North Carolina, Western NC, Kansas City, Memphis and Texas styles), collard greens, Cobb salad, and the Toll House cookie... :smile:

You disagree?

(er, shouldn't this be in the American cusine thread? :unsure: Unless we want to discuss the French influence on all of the above.)

Edited by hjshorter (log)

Heather Johnson

In Good Thyme

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Gee. I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake by my defense of fast food. Moreso, my defense of fast food as a feminist.

F*ck yeah. (Just to continue the fff sound started). I hope I didn't make a mistake.

:smile:

Hey, don't beat yourself up!

I have found that others are better and more efficient at it than I am, in my personal experience. Besides, you had a valid point, and the "feminist" crack sort of torqued me.

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Okay...I accept the wikipedia definition however I'm not sure it's that contemporary. Below is a london restaurant website guide definition:

Fusion Food

A guide to fusion food, fusion cuisine and fusion restaurants in London

*snippity snip a lot of good information concerning fusion*

Fusion Food in the UK

Peter Gordon is often hailed as the person who introduced fusion cooking to the UK. He grew up in New Zealand, learned his trade in Melbourne and spent the next few years travelling through Nepal, India and South East Asia. On his return he launched the Sugar Club restaurant in Wellington and in 1996 brought the idea to London, starting off in Notting Hill and subsequently moving to Soho in 1998.

Fusion food can be sampled not only at specific fusion restaurants across the capital, many London restaurants now include some fusion food on the menu even if it is not the overriding cuisine, such is its popularity.

Peter Gordon was born in 1981. Postdating "fusion" in the US that dates back a bit older than that.

That being said, it is understandable that you should be proud of Peter Gordon and his success.

I appreciate your gracious acceptance of the facts.

We do love you kiwichef. Especially when you can take a couple of lumps and still come out smiling.

Peter Gordon wasn't born in 1981. He would be about 40 now so he was born sometime in the 60's. No-one can claim Fusion as their own, however New Zealand and Australia are recognised as the contemporary leaders, due to their proximity to South East Asia. If you go down-under you will encounter a myriad of restaurants combining Asian and European flavours.

I accept Wikipedia's opinion, but I'm not sure it's correct. After all Wikipedia is a subscriber based information source.

I note their is no mention of the Carribean or MesoAmerica.

Thanks Annecross. I enjoy a debate.

Upon reflection, he must have been born earlier than 1981. It seems he likes to hide his age, but IMO he should be proud of what he has accomplished in his tender years. I was born in 1963, and am only 43, and my birth post dates fusion cuisine in the US. Are you honestly trying to say that Peter Gordon has had more influence on "fusion" cuisine throughout the world than Wolfgang Puck and his predeccessor? And, although he started young, there are certainly labor laws in NZ that would have prevented him from slaving in the kitchen before a certain age.

There is an index to Tex-Mex under fusion. Tex-Mex includes MesoAmerican food in the cuisine. Very old MesoAmerican, when you consider the tamal and the tortillia.

Yes of course fusion would include Tex-Mex, but I guess the question is what is "Fusion Cuisine" and I have always understood it to be a mix of South East Asian and European cuisines, and yes, I'm suggesting NZ and Australia and the leading protagonists.

So, this being the case Tex-Mex would not be categorized as Fusion Cuisine, but it would be a fusion of cuisines.

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Gee. I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake by my defense of fast food. Moreso, my defense of fast food as a feminist.

F*ck yeah. (Just to continue the fff sound started). I hope I didn't make a mistake.

:smile:

there you are Karen, the title for your first book "A feminist defence of fast food", or "In defence of fast food, by a feminist chef". Or something. I'll buy it, and I bet kiwichef will too.

Happy Feasting

Janet (a.k.a The Old Foodie)

My Blog "The Old Foodie" gives you a short food history story each weekday day, always with a historic recipe, and sometimes a historic menu.

My email address is: theoldfoodie@fastmail.fm

Anything is bearable if you can make a story out of it. N. Scott Momaday

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Gee. I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake by my defense of fast food. Moreso, my defense of fast food as a feminist.

F*ck yeah. (Just to continue the fff sound started). I hope I didn't make a mistake.

:smile:

there you are Karen, the title for your first book "A feminist defence of fast food", or "In defence of fast food, by a feminist chef". Or something. I'll buy it, and I bet kiwichef will too.

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Gee. I'm hoping I didn't make a mistake by my defense of fast food. Moreso, my defense of fast food as a feminist.

F*ck yeah. (Just to continue the fff sound started). I hope I didn't make a mistake.

:smile:

there you are Karen, the title for your first book "A feminist defence of fast food", or "In defence of fast food, by a feminist chef". Or something. I'll buy it, and I bet kiwichef will too.

Funny...I will definitely buy it...how bout "Fetishes of a fast food feminist"

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there you are Karen, the title for your first book "A feminist defence of fast food", or "In defence of fast food, by a feminist chef". Or something. I'll buy it, and I bet kiwichef will too.

There's already been books written that have given way more insight than I ever could on the subject, Janet. Secret Ingredients - Race, Gender and Class at the Dinner Table is one of them, and of course another is Peg Brackens "I Hate to Cook Book". :wink:

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I was replying to feedback. I guess I am slagging American fastfood, yeah, and I will continue to do so. It's digusting. It doesn't reflect my opinion of food in America as I have had many a fine meal in the States. It is inextricabley attached to American culture however, so denying it doesn't resolve the issue.
What issue is that, exactly?
I provocatively suggested American Cuisine was made up of hamburgers, pizza, and hotdogs...or fastfood, and the comments followed. So the issue was "is it"
I am puzzled, you mention New York pastrami, Chesapeake Bay crabs, and a few other things that you enjoyed here, yet still cling to the "fast food is American Cuisine" cliche?

I said:

Kiwichef, what you ate here is our cuisine. Taco trucks. Ethiopian restaurants. Bahn Mi counters. Chez Panisse. Sushi and schawarma. The French Laundry. Pizza joints and hot dog stands. Felafel and french fries. That's the real genius of the USA - that there is an infinite variety of ways to eat like an American.
Just to pile on a bit I'd add Tex-Mex, Cajun and Creole, New England clam chowder, Southern Maryland stuffed ham, corn on the cob, blueberry cobbler, tamales, BBQ (Eastern North Carolina, Western NC, Kansas City, Memphis and Texas styles), collard greens, Cobb salad, and the Toll House cookie... :smile:

You disagree?

(er, shouldn't this be in the American cusine thread? :unsure: Unless we want to discuss the French influence on all of the above.)

Agree

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Okay...I accept the wikipedia definition however I'm not sure it's that contemporary. Below is a london restaurant website guide definition:

Fusion Food

A guide to fusion food, fusion cuisine and fusion restaurants in London

*snippity snip a lot of good information concerning fusion*

Fusion Food in the UK

Peter Gordon is often hailed as the person who introduced fusion cooking to the UK. He grew up in New Zealand, learned his trade in Melbourne and spent the next few years travelling through Nepal, India and South East Asia. On his return he launched the Sugar Club restaurant in Wellington and in 1996 brought the idea to London, starting off in Notting Hill and subsequently moving to Soho in 1998.

Fusion food can be sampled not only at specific fusion restaurants across the capital, many London restaurants now include some fusion food on the menu even if it is not the overriding cuisine, such is its popularity.

Peter Gordon was born in 1981. Postdating "fusion" in the US that dates back a bit older than that.

That being said, it is understandable that you should be proud of Peter Gordon and his success.

I appreciate your gracious acceptance of the facts.

We do love you kiwichef. Especially when you can take a couple of lumps and still come out smiling.

Peter Gordon wasn't born in 1981. He would be about 40 now so he was born sometime in the 60's. No-one can claim Fusion as their own, however New Zealand and Australia are recognised as the contemporary leaders, due to their proximity to South East Asia. If you go down-under you will encounter a myriad of restaurants combining Asian and European flavours.

I accept Wikipedia's opinion, but I'm not sure it's correct. After all Wikipedia is a subscriber based information source.

I note their is no mention of the Carribean or MesoAmerica.

Thanks Annecross. I enjoy a debate.

Upon reflection, he must have been born earlier than 1981. It seems he likes to hide his age, but IMO he should be proud of what he has accomplished in his tender years. I was born in 1963, and am only 43, and my birth post dates fusion cuisine in the US. Are you honestly trying to say that Peter Gordon has had more influence on "fusion" cuisine throughout the world than Wolfgang Puck and his predeccessor? And, although he started young, there are certainly labor laws in NZ that would have prevented him from slaving in the kitchen before a certain age.

There is an index to Tex-Mex under fusion. Tex-Mex includes MesoAmerican food in the cuisine. Very old MesoAmerican, when you consider the tamal and the tortillia.

Yes of course fusion would include Tex-Mex, but I guess the question is what is "Fusion Cuisine" and I have always understood it to be a mix of South East Asian and European cuisines, and yes, I'm suggesting NZ and Australia and the leading protagonists.

So, this being the case Tex-Mex would not be categorized as Fusion Cuisine, but it would be a fusion of cuisines.

This may or may not be correct, but per your comments it seems that in Australia/New Zealand, 'Fusion cusine' specifically means a certain type of modern fusion of Asian and European cuisine. I think in the US that would be called 'Asian fusion" cuisine; just one of the new fusion cuisines that have become popular since the 1970's. I think this difference in terminology may have caused some o the misunderstanding above.

For example, in the US there is also 'new' Latino fusion cuisine, Carribean fusion cuisine (primarily in Florida) and also 'new' Southwestern cuisine which is fusion of Mexican, Southwestern and Asian ingredients and often includes seafood not indigenous to the Southwest. And these are all distinct from Tex-Mex!

Also, there as mentioned above there has been plenty of 'fusion' cuisine in the US since it's inception but I think it was not typically named as "fusion" pre-1970 or so. I think the fusion happened more slowly and less self-consciously before that date and it typically used "American' ingredients or what was easily grown or sourced back then in the US. Some examples would be Italian-American or German-American cuisine. In the first case, until the last few decades, Italian-American cooking in the US was known and thought of as just "Italian" by most people although it was primarily an American take on southern Italian cuisine. With German-American cooking the fusion happened so long ago that most of the dishes of German origin or inspiration are thought of as completely American.

"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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Okay...I accept the wikipedia definition however I'm not sure it's that contemporary. Below is a london restaurant website guide definition:

Fusion Food

A guide to fusion food, fusion cuisine and fusion restaurants in London

*snippity snip a lot of good information concerning fusion*

Fusion Food in the UK

Peter Gordon is often hailed as the person who introduced fusion cooking to the UK. He grew up in New Zealand, learned his trade in Melbourne and spent the next few years travelling through Nepal, India and South East Asia. On his return he launched the Sugar Club restaurant in Wellington and in 1996 brought the idea to London, starting off in Notting Hill and subsequently moving to Soho in 1998.

Fusion food can be sampled not only at specific fusion restaurants across the capital, many London restaurants now include some fusion food on the menu even if it is not the overriding cuisine, such is its popularity.

Peter Gordon was born in 1981. Postdating "fusion" in the US that dates back a bit older than that.

That being said, it is understandable that you should be proud of Peter Gordon and his success.

I appreciate your gracious acceptance of the facts.

We do love you kiwichef. Especially when you can take a couple of lumps and still come out smiling.

Peter Gordon wasn't born in 1981. He would be about 40 now so he was born sometime in the 60's. No-one can claim Fusion as their own, however New Zealand and Australia are recognised as the contemporary leaders, due to their proximity to South East Asia. If you go down-under you will encounter a myriad of restaurants combining Asian and European flavours.

I accept Wikipedia's opinion, but I'm not sure it's correct. After all Wikipedia is a subscriber based information source.

I note their is no mention of the Carribean or MesoAmerica.

Thanks Annecross. I enjoy a debate.

Upon reflection, he must have been born earlier than 1981. It seems he likes to hide his age, but IMO he should be proud of what he has accomplished in his tender years. I was born in 1963, and am only 43, and my birth post dates fusion cuisine in the US. Are you honestly trying to say that Peter Gordon has had more influence on "fusion" cuisine throughout the world than Wolfgang Puck and his predeccessor? And, although he started young, there are certainly labor laws in NZ that would have prevented him from slaving in the kitchen before a certain age.

There is an index to Tex-Mex under fusion. Tex-Mex includes MesoAmerican food in the cuisine. Very old MesoAmerican, when you consider the tamal and the tortillia.

Yes of course fusion would include Tex-Mex, but I guess the question is what is "Fusion Cuisine" and I have always understood it to be a mix of South East Asian and European cuisines, and yes, I'm suggesting NZ and Australia and the leading protagonists.

So, this being the case Tex-Mex would not be categorized as Fusion Cuisine, but it would be a fusion of cuisines.

This may or may not be correct, but per your comments it seems that in Australia/New Zealand, 'Fusion cusine' specifically means a certain type of modern fusion of Asian and European cuisine. I think in the US that would be called 'Asian fusion" cuisine; just one of the new fusion cuisines that have become popular since the 1970's. I think this difference in terminology may have caused some o the misunderstanding above.

For example, in the US there is also 'new' Latino fusion cuisine, Carribean fusion cuisine (primarily in Florida) and also 'new' Southwestern cuisine which is fusion of Mexican, Southwestern and Asian ingredients and often includes seafood not indigenous to the Southwest. And these are all distinct from Tex-Mex!

Also, there as mentioned above there has been plenty of 'fusion' cuisine in the US since it's inception but I think it was not typically named as "fusion" pre-1970 or so. I think the fusion happened more slowly and less self-consciously before that date and it typically used "American' ingredients or what was easily grown or sourced back then in the US. Some examples would be Italian-American or German-American cuisine. In the first case, until the last few decades, Italian-American cooking in the US was known and thought of as just "Italian" by most people although it was primarily an American take on southern Italian cuisine. With German-American cooking the fusion happened so long ago that most of the dishes of German origin or inspiration are thought of as completely American.

Thanks for the clarification...makes sense.

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Can someone tell me in which nation soy milk was developed?

And if they have it in New Zealand?

Yep there is Soy Milk in NZ....for the vegans mostly. I prefer full cream milk.

There is another thread here that you should avail yourself of:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=97854&hl=

You are welcome.

Anne

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Dear Lord. There've been so many quote-frames on here, I feel like I'm at Versailles.

The overuse of quotequotequote usually means one of two things: We're all in a frenzy of mutual admiration. "You are so wonderful." "Oh, NO. Not I. It is YOU." "After YOUUUUU!!!" "No, After YOUUUUUU!"

OR: There's enough snark-frenzy in the waters that SOMEBODY is gonna close us down.

This has been mostly fun. I hope the censors aren't gearing up.

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Another critic asks if I've worked in a french kitchen. No I haven't. But I have been cursed and abused in the kitchen many a time, and I know the french kitchens are the same. But the French don't take that language to the public as Ramsey has. My point being the etiquette in a french kitchen, and its connection with french life and society, doesn't permit such public discourse. I suggest if it ever happened the chef concerned would be publicly lambasted, and chastised. Of course Ramsey enjoys the fruits of his language, and notereity through the English speaking media, where he's lauded, and good luck to him.

Dear kiwichef,

As I wrote, I suspect you haven't much of an experience of the French food scene — present and past — and that you may be building your assertions on partial knowledge. For one Gordon Ramsay who gets away with such language, oh well — I'll grant you a couple others bratty insular chefs too; how many courteous and decent chefs in the UK? Hundreds? Thousands? So please don't make it a British general rule. By the way you seem to imply that the British actually enjoy brutality and foul language to the point of considering them normal features in a chef? I think it is a strange idea but I'll let you have it. And this idea of "etiquette in a french kitchen" sounds no less strange and I'm sorry if I'm about to shatter some illusions here. Though there are many courteous and polite French chefs, those who happen to be less courteous are not exactly inhibited in public, and the public is more or less used to that — at worst indifferent, at best amused. Years ago, when Jacques Maximin was at the Negresco, he once appeared in the dining room saying out loud to an old lady who hadn't enjoyed the meal: "So Madame didn't like it? Well, madame, je m'en bats les couilles !" Not an isolated example, in a way that's how we like our chefs (in small doses though).

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Can someone tell me in which nation soy milk was developed?

And if they have it in New Zealand?

Yep there is Soy Milk in NZ....for the vegans mostly. I prefer full cream milk.

There is another thread here that you should avail yourself of:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=97854&hl=

You are welcome.

Anne

Wow, glad I drink full cream.

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