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johnder

Death and Company

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Just a quick update, D&C will be closing tonight for staff training and redecorating and will be re-opening Monday night.


John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

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So after a very long and tedious CB meeting in which 5 people for the renewal of Death and Company and 5 people against the renewal the board voted by close to a 2-1 margin in favor not to support the renewal of the liquor license for D&C.

According to Eater it was more like 4-1.

What this means is that they will not have the support of the CB3 board in their renewal efforts.  How much this will impact the final result is to be determined.  The opponents of D&C presented some facts that were suspicious, mainly the reports of tremendous bass from the music, people congregating outside at all hours of the morning, people vomiting on the street, etc.

It's really hard for you to believe that patrons congregate outside a bar late at night? Have you ever been to Ludlow Street? Ever since the smoking ban, it's a given.

I have known one of the "opponents" for almost 15 years, and he is as solid and community-minded a person as I've ever known. Casting aspersions on them is not helpful. As far as I know none of them have anything to gain but a good night's sleep in their own apartments - which they are entitled to.

While the have overcome the issue of the distance of them from the synagogue by having to letters from architects stating the distance is 202.6 feet, a representative of the synagogue presented his case that he paced off 133 feet which seemed to have more impact unfortunately with the board then the letters of the licensed architects.

The next step will likely involve lawyers and letters and all sorts of hurdles to overcome.  I am not sure what this means for the short term health of their business as their license is expiring very soon.  If they can continue to operate in the interim while the renewal is pending is an open question.

I will try to get some more details from the owners tomorrow and report back.

I'm not impressed by the behavior of the owners and would take anything they said with a very large grain of salt. If they got the license under the condition that they would operate as a "restaurant", then it seems like they may have been dissembling on their application. In your first post you even called it a "cocktail place", and it's repeatedly referred to as a "bar". That doesn't sound like a place whose primary business is selling food.


Sometimes When You Are Right, You Can Still Be Wrong. ~De La Vega

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Whatever the circumstances of their garnering the liquor license...there's no way around the fact that NY has a paucity of places with an entire bar staff who really know what they're doing....five to be exact...and that number could now be four. Anyone who cares about the finer things in life (like every person on egullet I would hope) should care about that.

It's not like the B&T clientele that had been frequenting the place in the early months was still going to be there in another month or so....and the drinks were too expensive and complicated to attract much of a student crowd for long.

and some of those claims are suspicious ("bass from the music" at D&C????????")


Edited by Nathan (log)

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True, but especially if you're a lawyer, it's hard not to care about abuse of process (if that's true, and I have no idea what the true facts are).

This is a topic that I do not think bears further public discussion.

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Whatever the circumstances of their garnering the liquor license...there's no way around the fact that NY has a paucity of places with an entire bar staff who really know what they're doing....five to be exact...and that number could now be four.  Anyone who cares about the finer things in life (like every person on egullet I would hope) should care about that.

The fact that NY has a paucity of places for a good cocktail (and I agree that's the case), doesn't mean that they should be allowed to open anywhere they want, regardless of the law and the community in which they seek to do business.

It seems as if they had applied for an application as a bar, they would have been turned down. IMO if they lied on their application to get around it, they should be shut down.

It's not like the B&T clientele that had been frequenting the place in the early months was still going to be there in another month or so....and the drinks were too expensive and complicated to attract much of a student crowd for long.

Ok, so the people who live nearby should just what? Not sleep until the B&Ters go away?


Sometimes When You Are Right, You Can Still Be Wrong. ~De La Vega

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and some of those claims are suspicious ("bass from the music" at D&C????????")

If the space isn't properly soundproofed (and they have not apparently made any moves to improve it), then the sound leakage can be substantial, even if the music isn't very loud.


Sometimes When You Are Right, You Can Still Be Wrong. ~De La Vega

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and some of those claims are suspicious ("bass from the music" at D&C????????")

If the space isn't properly soundproofed (and they have not apparently made any moves to improve it), then the sound leakage can be substantial, even if the music isn't very loud.

Ella Fitzgerald?

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and some of those claims are suspicious ("bass from the music" at D&C????????")

If the space isn't properly soundproofed (and they have not apparently made any moves to improve it), then the sound leakage can be substantial, even if the music isn't very loud.

Ella Fitzgerald?

It doesn't matter what sort of music they are playing. If it's too loud for people to sleep, it's a problem.


Sometimes When You Are Right, You Can Still Be Wrong. ~De La Vega

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and some of those claims are suspicious ("bass from the music" at D&C????????")

If the space isn't properly soundproofed (and they have not apparently made any moves to improve it), then the sound leakage can be substantial, even if the music isn't very loud.

Ella Fitzgerald?

It doesn't matter what sort of music they are playing. If it's too loud for people to sleep, it's a problem.

it was impossible to hear their music from outside

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and some of those claims are suspicious ("bass from the music" at D&C????????")

If the space isn't properly soundproofed (and they have not apparently made any moves to improve it), then the sound leakage can be substantial, even if the music isn't very loud.

Ella Fitzgerald?

It doesn't matter what sort of music they are playing. If it's too loud for people to sleep, it's a problem.

it was impossible to hear their music from outside

That is no indication of what it sounds like inside. Sound travels through cavities in the walls, etc.. Unless you've been in one of the apartments above it, you can't extrapolate that they are lying because you can't hear the music outside.


Sometimes When You Are Right, You Can Still Be Wrong. ~De La Vega

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That is no indication of what it sounds like inside. Sound travels through cavities in the walls, etc.. Unless you've been in one of the apartments above it, you can't extrapolate that they are lying because you can't hear the music outside.

Actually the owners addressed this issue at the CB3 meeting. During the renovation they added multiple layers of foam, sound proofing boards and plywood to the ceiling and walls. Furthermore from what I understand the chief opponent who lives directly over D&C has lodged noise complaints with the NYPD only to have them dismissed by officers who came into his apartment as were unable to hear any noise.

Have you been inside D&C and heard the volume of the music being played? Have you been inside any of the apartments and heard the music coming through the walls? Have you walked down 6th St? It is nothing at all like Ludlow (which I live on) and the clientele of D&C is not the same demographic that frequents establishments on Ludlow.

Also when people who have been there refer to the 'bar' I believe that they're refering the the phyiscal bar as opposed to a table. When I go to the Gramercy Tavern I usually sit at the bar and have great cocktails but that doesnt make the establishment a bar.

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That is no indication of what it sounds like inside. Sound travels through cavities in the walls, etc.. Unless you've been in one of the apartments above it, you can't extrapolate that they are lying because you can't hear the music outside.

Actually the owners addressed this issue at the CB3 meeting. During the renovation they added multiple layers of foam, sound proofing boards and plywood to the ceiling and walls. Furthermore from what I understand the chief opponent who lives directly over D&C has lodged noise complaints with the NYPD only to have them dismissed by officers who came into his apartment as were unable to hear any noise.

I don't doubt that they did some soundproofing during the renovation, but they couldn't have known whether it was done correctly until after opening.

Is it not possible that they turned the music once they saw the police arrive?

Have you been inside D&C and heard the volume of the music being played? Have you been inside any of the apartments and heard the music coming through the walls? Have you walked down 6th St? It is nothing at all like Ludlow (which I live on) and the clientele of D&C is not the same demographic that frequents establishments on Ludlow.

I wasn't directly comparing E 6th Street to Ludlow, but saying that people do congregate outside bars to smoke and talk since the smoking ban. Ludlow *is* a particularly extreme example (I lived there until last year), but it only takes 2 or 3 people who have been drinking (and tend to not modulate thier voices) to cause a problem for someone whose windows front on said street.

Have you been in any of the apartments to be so sure that the tenants are lying? As I said, I know one of them for many years, and he has no dog in this fight aside from getting a good night's sleep

Also when people who have been there refer to the 'bar' I believe that they're refering the the phyiscal bar as opposed to a table. When I go to the Gramercy Tavern I usually sit at the bar and have great cocktails but that doesnt make the establishment a bar.

Time Out listed Death & Co. in their 2007 survey under "New Bar of the Year". Citysearch lists them under Bar/Club, not restaurant. Eater describes them as a cocktail lounge. So, clearly, just because they call themselves a restaurant, it doesn't mean they're not actually a bar.


Sometimes When You Are Right, You Can Still Be Wrong. ~De La Vega

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I say this as a big D&C supporter:

Somebody should advise them that if they permit this to be framed as whether they are a "bar" or a "restaurant", they are in big danger of losing.

(Again, I don't know what the legal definitions are in this context. But the arguments that Nathan and donbert have made strike me as almost cynically disingenous.)


Edited by Sneakeater (log)

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after reading the CB meeting coverage at Eater..... i find it way disturbing that an owner would admittedly harass the tenant upstairs by contacting his employers- hoping to cause him the loss of work. That is so sleazy- my jaw dropped.

To a certain extent these rulings are heavily influenced by whether the players involved are believed to be acting in good faith. By harassing the tenant in that manner, they gave him the upper hand. Foolish and creepy. What a shame, it was a cute place.


Edited by butterscotch (log)

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For those that are interested, I heard D&C is still closed for maintenance and paperwork. When I hear about a re-opening date, I will post it.

John


John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

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I walked by on Wednesday and it was indeed closed.

To butterscotch --

I wouldn't take everything I read in Eater as gospel.


"If it's me and your granny on bongos, then it's a Fall gig'' -- Mark E. Smith

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I walked by on Wednesday and it was indeed closed.
To butterscotch --

I wouldn't take everything I read in Eater as gospel.

This has nothing to do with butterscotch or Sneakeater's comments.

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To butterscotch --

I wouldn't take everything I read in Eater as gospel.

If you're referring to butterscotch's comment about the owners harassing the tenant(s), then Eater was correct. It did happen, and the owners appear to have admitted as much.


Sometimes When You Are Right, You Can Still Be Wrong. ~De La Vega

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I have just been told that D&C will be open again tonight serving drinks. Since they have been closed for 2.5 weeks, food will start up again Monday or Tuesday once they get their orders in.

John


John Deragon

foodblog 1 / 2

--

I feel sorry for people that don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day -- Dean Martin

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I have just been told that D&C will be open again tonight serving drinks.  Since they have been closed for 2.5 weeks, food will start up again Monday or Tuesday once they get their orders in.

John

Damn, just when I was starting to be productive again. Oh well, at least I won't be thirsty anymore.

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