Tipping Outside of Restaurants

[Stone]

It's not just a city in China anymore. It's in Starbucks. The corner cafeteria. The record store.

I tip at restaurants because, well, primarily because society tells me to. (Insert "Resevoir Dogs" quote here.) But waiters earn $2.XX and hour (it was #2.10 when I did it 12 years ago), and hustle their asses all over the restaurant dealing with the biggest pricks on the planet -- customers. So I give 20% -- including alcohol and tax.

The person behind the counter at Starbucks starts off at, according to the sign in the window, at $8.95. And she poors coffee for a living.. From a spigot -- no 64 oz curls for her.

Should we tip her -- and everyone else who puts a cup on the counter?

[John Whiting]

Tipping, whether societally approved or not, is inherently corrupt. In countries where it is customary in all interpersonal transactions involving the provision of services, including governmental, it is known as bribery.

[macrosan]

Tipping, whether societally approved or not, is inherently corrupt. In countries where it is customary in all interpersonal transactions involving the provision of services, including governmental, it is known as bribery.

I know that was just intended as a provocative show-stopper, John, but you mustn't distort the English language in that way.

Bribery is payment as an agreed pre-condition to delivery of a service, and in common usage would also need to be covert. So in many African countries where everyone knows that a bid for business will require a fixed percentage "bribe" to be added to pay the facilitator, it is even arguable that this is no more a bribe than the commission charged by auction houses. (Not my own view, but certainly arguable).

Tipping, by contrast, is not a pre-condition to service, and is overt. If the menu says a meal costs $20 then everyone knows that the "real" price is $23-$24.

I consider tipping to be a historical anachronism, probably originating from France and any intelligent community would dispense with it immediately.

[tommy]

i "tip" the starbucks people after i get to know them and i see that i'm getting exceptional service. when i say "tip," in this case, i mean the extra change from the bill, which amounts to 20 or 30 cents or so.

it's quite a stretch to consider this "bribery." quite a stretch indeed.

[Wilfrid]

I look forward to the day I receive exceptional service in Starbucks.

Tipping culture is so entrenched in the States, it is worth sending out a reminder from time to time that plenty of countries get by without it. In Germany, it is standard to see - at the bottom of any menu - "all our prices are fully inclusive of tax and service". Makes life easy, and I don't see the waiters starving. I guess they get paid a decent wage. Service, needless to say, is no better and no worse for this.

[Oreganought]

[

I consider tipping to be a historical anachronism, probably originating from France    and any intelligent community would dispense with it immediately.

Yah,but no more preferential treatment,everyone is just a mouth.

Do people know when they are well known as bad tippers,why they just can't get the waiters attention for another glass of water.

[tommy]

Yah,but no more preferential treatment,everyone is just a mouth.

no more preferential treatment is fine by me. one would hope that *every* customer would receive good service, and those servers who don't provide an acceptable level of service would be fired, just as in any other business. call me crazy.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I tend to agree with John that tipping is bribery. But where I disagree with him is concluding that all bribery is corrupt. To reach that conclusion, one has to agree that whatever system is in place is fair. Unfortunately many systems are unfair. For example, the Museum of Modern Art has a Matisse exhibition. Tickets are doled out on a first come first serve basis which means the currency the museum is using is the time to stand in line. But I don't have the time to stand in the line. And I am willing to pay 10 times the face price of a ticket not to. Except the museum isn't selling them on that basis because their definition of "fair" means every one has an equal chance to go, equal being defined as the time to wait. So in order for me to see the show based on a free market system, I pay a scalper what is in effect a bribe to stand on line for me.

Restaurants are similar in that prices are fixed. If each night Daniel was able to sell their tables to the highest pre-bidder, and each captain was responsible for selling the tables (which in effect sort of happens doesn't it,) and they were getting a percentage of what you bid (like an auction house) tipping wouldn't seem so underhanded would it? And in reality that is what a museum does doesn't it? I am a member of a number of museums and they always have special viewings for members at extortionist prices based on donations. And it doesn't seem so unseemly when it is done in the context of a good reason. But it does when Vito is making the spread between face value and market.

[tommy]

my employer bribes me 5 days a week. that bastard should be locked up.

[Wilfrid]

There must be some difference between a bribe and a fee, surely, but I think it's getting lost here.

[Blondie]

Tickets are doled out on a first come first serve basis which means the currency the museum is using is the time to stand in line. But I don't have the time to stand in the line. And I am willing to pay 10 times the face price of a ticket not to. Except the museum isn't selling them on that basis because their definition of "fair" means every one has an equal chance to go, equal being defined as the time to wait. So in order for me to see the show based on a free market system, I pay a scalper what is in effect a bribe to stand on line for me.

So the poor art lover who doesn't have the money to pay a scalper, but who does have the time to stand in line, could get shut out of tickets because of your scalper (who may or may not be breaking the law).

[tommy]

So the poor art lover who doesn't have the money to pay a scalper, but who does have the time to stand in line, could get shut out of tickets because of your scalper (who may or may not be breaking the law).

yup, that's what he's saying. but that's just the way it goes, isn't it.

[SobaAddict70]

I tip cabdrivers and waiters, and coat check persons, and even my postman (on Xmas day). I draw the line at Starbucks peeps.

Ok, you can throw tomatoes at me now.

SA

[Steve Plotnicki]

"So the poor art lover who doesn't have the money to pay a scalper, but who does have the time to stand in line, could get shut out of tickets because of your scalper (who may or may not be breaking the law)."

Blondie - I'm not promoting one system over the other, I'm just saying that there are items that operate completely in a free market where the price isn't fixed according to some standard. How about the cost of the paintings in the Matisse exhibition? Should we tell the people who own them that they can't sell them for fair market value because the people on line can't afford to buy them at that price? My only point is that additional "fees, costs, bribes," etc., however you want to designate those costs usually arise from a system that regulates price. And that the bad connotation of paying those fees is a result of the price being artificially limited. But as someone pointed out, if Sotheby's auctions a bottle of wine for $1000, that is heralded as a job well done. But if a top restaurant had the same bottle of wine on it's list unpriced, and at the beginning of the evening they sold it to the highest bidder, and the price happened to be $1000, they would be considered shiesters.

[Basildog]

my employer bribes me 5 days a week.  that bastard should be locked up.

only 5? My boss makes me work 6 sometimes 7 days a week?Now thats a bastard...oh yeah its also me

[Beachfan]

If you think service at NYC Starbucks isn't good, try getting an espresso in Florida. It's anything but express.

[Stone]

i "tip" the starbucks people after i get to know them and i see that i'm getting exceptional service.  when i say "tip," in this case, i mean the extra change from the bill, which amounts to 20 or 30 cents or so.

it's quite a stretch to consider this "bribery."  quite a stretch indeed.

I'm not sure what type of service people expect at Starbucks. But if tipping encourages their annoying habit of shouting out everyone's order three times, like poorly stereotyped sushi chefs, they're not getting a penny out of me.

[Schielke]

Here in Washington state, I believe that waiters are not paid the $2.xx pittance. Instead they get at the very least minimum wage...and customers are still expected to dole out 15-20% for service.

Quite a racket.

Ben

[tommy]

Instead they get at the very least minimum wage...and customers are still expected to dole out 15-20% for service.

Quite a racket.

yeah, i've heard washington state is filled with super-rich waitstaff.

[John Whiting]

I know that was just intended as a provocative show-stopper, John . . .

Not a show-stopper, but a show-*starter*. And in conjunction with the opening salvo, it's doing rather well.

[jaybee]

To me tipping is like applause, to be given in the amount deserved by the performance.

It is reserved for restaurants or service counters where a waitperson is serving me. I do not consider fast food places tip-worthy, and that includes Starbucks. I must be seated and served and eat while seated. (unless I tip a delivery person for a telephone order).

In US restaurants, I know that the system is for waitstaff to rely on tips as part of their income. So I pay a minimum of 10% of the check for mediocre service. Good service ups the ante to 15-20% and exceptional service to 25% pre tax. So a $60 check before tax will yield from me anywhere from $6 to $15. Unless the service is poor to execrable. then the tip is %5 to 0, zip, nada combined with a statement to the management.

[mamster]

Can I just mention that I wrote a song about the service at Starbucks?

http://www.mamster.net/ratcm/audio/barista.mp3

Thanks. I accept tips.

[tommy]

To me tipping is like applause, to be given in the amount deserved by the performance.

It is reserved for restaurants or service counters where a waitperson is serving me.  I do not consider fast food places tip-worthy, and that includes Starbucks.  I must be seated and served and eat while seated. (unless I tip a delivery person for a telephone order).

that's a strange barometer. the whole seated thing. the kids at the starbucks (well, actually it's that other place whose name escapes me) see me in line and prepare my drink before i even get up to order. they save me some time and frustration, so the 20 cents is a "thank you" for being human and having some common sense.

certainly the 20 cents isn't a lot to me, and it's not to them, but if 200 people a day left 20 cents, that would be, like, a lot of money or something. and of course, rewarding kids for being smart and working hard, whether it be at starbucks or applebees, helps the world become a better place. and i'm all about living in a better place.

[Wilfrid]

They prepare your drink as soon as they see you coming? Gee maybe I should start tipping in Jimmy's.

[Deacon]

. . . if 200 people a day left 20 cents, that would be, like, a lot of money or something. . . .

That would be $40. Or something. Split 'round the entire Starbucks staff, that would leave them each with . . . well, enough money to buy one item in a Starbucks. . . .

What antagonizes me is the "promotion" of tipping. In the upper-echelons of service, you don't get that, and those are the very places where you'd be likely to tip 20% anyway.

Any place that puts up a "witty" sign reading "TIPPING IS NOT JUST A CITY IN CHINA" gets bupkis from me. One counter-girl actually had the nerve to pick up the plastic tip jar while I was standing there and *shake* it at me.

If it's a bribe, it's only a bribe in advance, if you plan to go there again next time. But then, a place full of friendly professionals (as opposed to mercenaries) would make you WANT to return, and tip more. Bad service makes you go elsewhere, so the problem of retaliatory bad service doesn't apply. Tip hawkers are trying to make up for bad service and/or their wretched payscale by guilting you into giving more than you want to. Which is a form of bad service in itself.