Christmas Dinner. Prime Rib.

[jsmeeker]

My family always makes prime rib for Christmas dinner. Ok, I guess it's technically a standing rib roast because the folks don't spring for prime grade beef.

Side dishes are usually pretty simple. Some sort of potato (usually twice baked potatoes), a green veg (green beans, usually), some fruit salad, a green salad, etc.

Anyway, what's a good wine for this meal? I'm willing to drop around $30 or so for a bottle of red wine.

Also, is there any WHITE wine that would be "ok". Mom isn't a big red wine drinker.

[rich]

Any of the Ridge Zins would be perfect with the roast. If you can find the Geyserville appellation that would be best, should go for $20-25.

A big, full chardonnay would probably be best. I don't think any of the French are big enough - most have a more delicate personality. You could try a Kendall-Jackson. It's from the books of big oak and butter that used to mean California. It should stand up to the roast, but don't buy too much. It really doesn't work with much else.

[jsmeeker]

Any of the Ridge Zins would be perfect with the roast. If you can find the Geyserville appellation that would be best, should go for $20-25.

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Bear with me because I'm a little new to this getting into wine thing.

What country is a Ridge Zin from? (just so I know to wander to the right section of the wine shop)

Edit: It looks like California. Is Ridge the producer? Is Geyserville another producer?

Edited December 22, 2006 by jsmeeker (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

For a white, consider finding a Roussanne -- I am finding them far more pleasurable and substantive than Chardonnay and able to hold up to "big" food.

Ridge, BTW, is a California Zinfandel and they have vineyards all over; from the Santa Cruz mountains to the Russian River Valley.

[Fat Guy]

With respect to terminology, the "prime" in prime rib doesn't refer to the grade "USDA Prime" but, rather, I believe, to its location in the carcass.

A good California zinfandel, like any of the vineyard-designated bottlings produced by Ridge (Geyserville is one of them), would be an unassailable choice.

[jsmeeker]

OK.. Thanks.

I'm understanding better now.

Ridge is a producer. They have vineyards all over California. These vineyards grow Zinfandel grapes (and I would assume other types as well). When they go to produce wine, they make a distinct one for each of the vineywards, using the grapes from those vineyards.

This place is always educational.

[Brad Ballinger]

First, the zinfandel thing. Ridge is a producer located in Cupertino (Santa Cruz Mountains area). Some of their zinfandel grapes come from that area. Some come from Sonoma County. Ridge's Geyserville uses grapes from around Geyserville, in Sonoma County. But the zinfandel content is usually not high enough for the wine to legally be labeled a Zinfandel wine. Also, in my experience, Geyserville is better enjoyed with some age on it.

So I'd go with a Syrah. You can get a California Syrah, or something from Northern Rhone (which you'll find labeled Cornas, Cote Rotie, Hermitage, Crozes-Hermitage). If getting a Northern Rhone wine from a more recent vintage, I'd go with a Crozes-Hermitage or Cornas.

Edited to add: I suppose you could also get an Australian Shiraz. Just ask your retailer for one that's not to goopy or oaky.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Brad Ballinger (log)

[jsmeeker]

Went to the liquor store. They had the Ridge Geyserville on hand (2003). Label says 76% Zinfandel. I guess it DOESN'T say "Zinfandel" on the main part of the label like a lot of the other Zins in that section of the store did.. Still, I'll give this a shot. If I like it, maybe I'll buy another bottle and keep it for a while.

As for the Syrah... I DO have a bottle in my wine rack. Just something I somewhat randomly picked up at Cost Plus several months ago. It's a Yalumba Barossa 95 % Shiraz/ 5% Viognier. From what I understand, a Cote Rotie is essentially a red wine made with Syrah and blended with a bit of Viognier. But it comes from France (Rhone region). So, is what I have essentially an Australian version of a Cote Rotie?

I think maybe I should take BOTH to dinner.

[little ms foodie]

We have a case of that Yalumba in demi's!!! It is good stuff- very big red fruit!

we are having the same thing for dinner and I'm doing an Oregon 'Bordeaux Blend' style which I think is nice to cut through the fattyness of the rib roast and the yorkshire pudding that will accompany..... but now I'm thinking syrah which I have some nice ones! comments??

[bobferdon]

Did someone here actually recommend Kendal Jackson?

[Craig Camp]

Not getting the bigger is better thing, I don't see Zin with prime rib, but as a better match for a big charred steak. Some of my suggestions would include:

A top California pinot noir like Alma Rosa

A Washington Cabernet like L'Ecole 41

An 03 Oregon pinot noir like Bethel Heights

Edited December 25, 2006 by Craig Camp (log)

[markk]

Indeed, a big wine like a Zinfandel might go well with the crusty end-cuts of a prime rib, but if you're going to have a subtly flavored rare, or medium rare inner slice, a subtle, delicate red wine would be the better choice, because the simplicity of the meat will let a wine with lots of understated interest shine through - for example, a Bordeaux with some good age to it, preferably one of the communes of the Haut Medoc - but at this point in time, you'd need to be in a reputable wine store that is knowledgeable in French wines, and tell them that you'd like a wine from one of the communes of the Haut Medoc that's had some aging, and you'd just have to trust them (unless you're really up on your vintages in that region, which it sounds like you may not be).

But in fact, when you approach this from the other side, as in "I have a bottle of '82 or '86 Bordeaux- what should I cook to serve it with?", you realize that something simple like the flavor of slow roasted rare beef is a perfect match for an older wine such as Bordeaux.

[Craig Camp]

Indeed, a big wine like a Zinfandel might go well with the crusty end-cuts of a prime rib, but if you're going to have a subtly flavored rare, or medium rare inner slice, a subtle, delicate red wine would be the better choice, because the simplicity of the meat will let a wine with lots of understated interest shine through - for example, a Bordeaux with some good age to it, preferably one of the communes of the Haut Medoc - but at this point in time, you'd need to be in a reputable wine store that is knowledgeable in French wines, and tell them that you'd like a wine from one of the communes of the Haut Medoc that's had some aging, and you'd just have to trust them (unless you're really up on your vintages in that region, which it sounds like you may not be).

But in fact, when you approach this from the other side, as in  "I have a bottle of '82 or '86 Bordeaux- what should I cook to serve it with?", you realize that something simple like the flavor of slow roasted rare beef is a perfect match for an older wine such as  Bordeaux.

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That's a great point. Simple dishes are the best for older wines and a classic aged Bordeaux would be excellent with prime rib. Robust wines need robust foods, and simply roasted beef is not such a dish. These big New World Zins and Syrahs need something equally assertive to compliment them.

[jackal10]

I agree.

Some of the 2000s are drinking wonderfully now, and not that expensive

[jsmeeker]

I agree.

Some of the 2000s are drinking wonderfully now, and not that expensive

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Reporting back.

Everyone liked the wines. Yes, they were pretty "full bodied" and maybe they were "too much" for prime rib, but we all enjoyed them. I guess that's what matters most.

I won't even attempt to give tasting notes, as I really don't have the slightest clue on how to properly describe the tastes other than "that was good". And "this wine seems to be more 'full bodied' than the other one".

[rich]

First, the zinfandel thing.  Ridge is a producer located in Cupertino (Santa Cruz Mountains area).  Some of their zinfandel grapes come from that area.  Some come from Sonoma County.  Ridge's Geyserville uses grapes from around Geyserville, in Sonoma County.  But the zinfandel content is usually not high enough for the wine to legally be labeled a Zinfandel wine.  Also, in my experience, Geyserville is better enjoyed with some age on it.

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I didn't think we were going into a full description of the wine only recommending one to go with Prime Rib.

I'm glad you enjoyed the wines JS - and you're correct - that's all that matters.

Brad, I agree Ridge Geyserville Zin is better with some age as are all the Ridge Zins and their Monte Bello Cab bottling (had a 71 with Christmas dinner - beef tenderloin - as is was spectacular).

All Ridge Zins should be aged. I think Draper mentions that on each label and he's conservative with his numbers. 75% is the legal minimum to name a bottle by its varietal.

I have never seen a Ridge Zin that's 100%. Everything is a blend, which is why I recommend it with Prime Rib or a "charred steak." Ridge Zin is like no other California version. It's food friendly and well balanced. Keep drinking the Ridge Zins with Prime Rib - it will make you smile.

[Fat Guy]

Given jsmeeker's budget of $30, I don't know that he'd have been able to find a good, subtle, aged Bordeaux. And while a pinot noir like Bethel (the Estate bottling) would be a good choice for a group of wine aficionados (I'd go with Argyle Nuthouse, just a personal preference), I'm not sure I'd serve it to my family. I mean, I can pretty much guarantee you that if you take a bunch of Americans who like wine and good food but don't make a study of it, you're going to get stronger positive responses to Zinfandel with beef than to pinot noir. I've wasted several good bottles of pinot noir on that experiment, before and after Sideways.

[Sneakeater]

That's interesting, because my experience has always been, when I serve decent West Coast pinot noirs with beef to non-wineys (whatever the word is), they always love them (presumably because they're flavorful without being so "big" and assertive as to be hard to handle).

Edited December 27, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Fat Guy]

If I serve a pinot to that sort of group I'll get polite responses, but a jammy zinfandel is, in my experience, far far more likely to elicit raves.

[jsmeeker]

All Ridge Zins should be aged. I think Draper mentions that on each label and he's conservative with his numbers. 75% is the legal minimum to name a bottle by its varietal.

I have never seen a Ridge Zin that's 100%. Everything is a blend, which is why I recommend it with Prime Rib or a "charred steak." Ridge Zin is like no other California version. It's food friendly and well balanced. Keep drinking the Ridge Zins with Prime Rib - it will make you smile.

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I did enjoy this wine. I think maybe I should go back to the wine store and buy some more, but to lay down. The only issue is that I really don't have a "proper" place to do this. The best is a wine rack in my dining room. It's just normal "room temperature". Would that be an issue over the long term? It sounds like I would need to keep it for a few years. (and that might kill me, too. I really was going to try to avoid "collecting" wine )

[Craig Camp]

If I serve a pinot to that sort of group I'll get polite responses, but a jammy zinfandel is, in my experience, far far more likely to elicit raves.

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That's the problem with hanging out with the wrong crowd.

[Craig Camp]

Given jsmeeker's budget of $30, I don't know that he'd have been able to find a good, subtle, aged Bordeaux. And while a pinot noir like Bethel (the Estate bottling) would be a good choice for a group of wine aficionados (I'd go with Argyle Nuthouse, just a personal preference), I'm not sure I'd serve it to my family. I mean, I can pretty much guarantee you that if you take a bunch of Americans who like wine and good food but don't make a study of it, you're going to get stronger positive responses to Zinfandel with beef than to pinot noir. I've wasted several good bottles of pinot noir on that experiment, before and after Sideways.

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I've never had this experience. I usually find that average wine drinkers wince at high alcohol wines. Also, if you combine Zinfandel with religion and politics at a dinner party you can end up with a food fight.

Why would you see Bethel Heights as something only for aficionados? I find it graceful, silky and seductive and a more layered wine than the Nuthouse, which is a charming wine to be sure.

You may not be able to find much AGED Bordeaux for $30, you can certainly find a lot of very nice subtle Bordeaux from current vintages within that budget.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Craig Camp (log)

[Fat Guy]

Craig and Sneakeater, are you telling me that you've put a California or Oregon pinot on the table at the same time as a jammy zinfandel, for a group of non aficionados, and gotten more favorable reactions to the pinot than to the zin? Maybe the local palate here is different, but I just did this like a month ago and there was no contest. The wines were Nuthouse and Renwood. The meal was turkey but the preferences were well established before anybody ate anything. I was the only person in the room who preferred the pinot. I haven't found that people have any problem with high-alcohol wines, either. The closer to Port the better. I drink a lot of Oregon pinot noir -- more than I drink of any other wine -- but have pretty much stopped bringing it to people's houses because I find the zins, syrahs and things of that ilk are better received.

[Craig Camp]

Craig and Sneakeater, are you telling me that you've put a California or Oregon pinot on the table at the same time as a jammy zinfandel, for a group of non aficionados, and gotten more favorable reactions to the pinot than to the zin? Maybe the local palate here is different, but I just did this like a month ago and there was no contest. The wines were Nuthouse and Renwood. The meal was turkey but the preferences were well established before anybody ate anything. I was the only person in the room who preferred the pinot. I haven't found that people have any problem with high-alcohol wines, either. The closer to Port the better. I drink a lot of Oregon pinot noir -- more than I drink of any other wine -- but have pretty much stopped bringing it to people's houses because I find the zins, syrahs and things of that ilk are better received.

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Yes, but the last two years I have lived in the Willamette Valley and they three years before that in Italy. Big, jammy wines are really not in style in Portland.

[rich]

I do dinner parties virtually every week and Pinots are not received well by "non winos." I happen to enjoy a Pinot with virtually anything from prime rib, to pork, to turkey, to lamb, to fish, but to a less sophisticated bunch, pinot doesn't work.

Zins, especially Ridge that are blended and preferably aged, receive uniform praise. They open nicely, reward the palate with a multitude of layers and marry well with the full flavor of beef, pork and especially lamb - and end with a long, full finish. It's a great go-to wine for a crowd.

And to answer JS, yes you can put down some Ridge Zin in a simple wine rack. Make sure the area is away from sunlight and the temperature is relatively constant - avoid heat at all costs (anything above 70-72). Perfect temperature for Zin and most red wines is 55-60.