shao hsing, relation of $ to quality

[kangarool]

Someone here was asking about Shao Hsing wine sources recently, which reminded me of a question I have been meaning to post.

My question is simply, what is the general consensus of the brand of shao hsing wine acknowledged as the best... or if not 'best', then very good quality, flavour, aroma, and all other related factors?

Another way to phrase the question is, while I'm lucky enough to be faced with probably a half-dozen choices of the wine on the market shelves, does $$ spent typically equate to better wine? And how much better?

Because we're talking about taste, and about cooking with a wine rather than drinking and tasting on its own, there's obviously no concrete answer ("$8.92 is the exact price one should pay, anything less and your dish will be ruined, anything more and the improvement is too incremental to notice").

But, as an example, recently i needed a very small amount for a recipe, so picked up a bottle on the cheap (v. cheap) end of the spectrum (sorry can't remember any brand names). While it did the emergency trick I needed it to do, sort of, the remainder of the bottle will go to waste: the taste was harsh, overpowering and, well, cheap (I got what i asked for).

In other words, in a general sense, does $ = quality, as in many things? For perspective, the bottle I bought was around $3/750ml. (!!!) Options went from there to about $20 or so. Obviously I'd prefer not to pay $20 if the difference will go unnoticed in a final dish.

While I have your attention, I'll add one more thing. Clearly, the dish in question and the amount used of wine, will determine the answer to my question. I had a steamed fish recently in a restaurant, that had been steamed in an absolutely heady wine/broth, absolutely magnificent and truly different. The wine was such a critical component of the dish, that just 'any' wine wouldn't have done... but again, back to my question, would simply purchasing the most expensive bottle I can find, be my best bet for replicating this dish?

hope my question is clear...

[muichoi]

The Shaoshing wines we get here are very close together in price. there are very few ingredients in which one gets such an increase in quality for a small extra expense. The basic cooking varietys are perfectly sound, but the aged varietys are remarkable drinks, though not too much in tune with contemporary taste. What they do add is extraordinary 'hsien' or 'Umami' as it's now called as well the defishing qualities for which it's known ,not to mention the ability to keep a broth clean. By their taste, some of these wines are 30-40 years old and as such remarkable bargains.

[kangarool]

so if i read you correctly, muichoi, it sounds as if your advice would be, "spend a bit more, get a lot more" ...?

[hzrt8w]

In my area, different brands of Shao Hsing wines are crowding the market. I generally see them in 2 groups:

1. Really "cheap" ones. US$2.00 a bottle (750 ml).

2. "Norm" price: US$5.00 to $6.00 a bottle.

The ultimate test is really your own taste bud. So I figure... what the heck. I bought both: A "cheap" one and one in the "norm". I drank them side by side. The cheap one really tasted inferior (and it went to the waste basket). The choice is clear for me. My motto: I will not cook with any wine that I will not drink myself.

On the other hand, I passed by 99 Ranch about a year ago and saw a really nice bottle of Shao Hsing wine. Cost: US$22.00. Those are meant to be drinking wine and not cooking. I bought a bottle just to try it out. Again, I placed them side by side: One small cup from the $6.00 bottle. One from the $22.00 a bottle. Tasted them. Result: No noticeable difference: except the saltiness from the $6.00 bottle.

My conclusion: The US$6.00 a bottle is good enough for my cooking. Since I don't notice any perceivable difference.

I can taste the difference between a Remy Martin XO and a Remy Martin VS, or VSOP. So I would pay US$100 for a bottle of XO compared to $20 for VS. But if I cannot appreciate the difference between a "norm" Shao Hsing wine and a "premium" Shao Hsing wine, any additional dollars I spent would be a waste.

Edited December 15, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[sheetz]

Does anyone know how a decent quality dry sherry would compare to a decent quality shao hsing wine?

[kangarool]

In my (very limited) experience with both, I have never noticed any connection whatsoever between the two... I've always been puzzled why "sherry" is so often given as a substitute ingredient when cooking chinese recipes. And as for the taste of the two when drinking, not cooking, I'd expect the gap to be even more pronounced.

hzrt8w and others would have a more expert opinion, but it's worth seeking out whichever of the two you're looking for, if possible.

[XiaoLing]

I've always been puzzled why "sherry" is so often given as a substitute ingredient when cooking chinese recipes.

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I believe this is done only because most non-asian households would have a bottle of cooking sherry readily available versus a bottle of shao hsing wine. It's more of a conveinence factor than anything else.

I actually ran out of shao hsing wine one day and I had guests coming over for dinner. So I called my Italian friend who was on his way over to pick up some cooking wine on his way over. He arrived with a bottle of sherry cooking wine. I used it the way I would shao hsing but the resulting taste is very different.

I know that high end restaurants in China would even use Mao Tai instead of the usual shao hsing. I tried that a few times and it smells and taste great!

[muichoi]

There are similarities between old sherry and old shaoshing in that they are both oxidative and both entirely about secondary characteristics. A fino or manzanilla is no use but a dry oloroso or amontillado for example is a good substitute.

[Chris Amirault]

To these good posts above, especially Ah Leung's, I'd add only that many stores may carry the better shaoxing wines behind the counter because they are technically alcohol not cooking liquids.

[Ben Hong]

Not much of what I cook necessitates the addition of wine, ie: shaoxing. For those few dishes that do, I use a shot of any liquor/wine in my cupboard. I find that rum is a very good addition....so is vodka, scotch, rye. Anything but gin.

As for the difference in quality and price, I have found that after cooking and incorporating the wine in your dish, the $2. plonk is as good as your $25 "good brand". Alas, I cannot taste the difference.

I guess I have to sharpen my taste buds.

[JasonZ]

To these good posts above, especially Ah Leung's, I'd add only that many stores may carry the better shaoxing wines behind the counter because they are technically alcohol not cooking liquids.

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Just the point I was going to make ... in Pennsylvania, selling alcoholic beverages is a state monopoly, so oriental grocery stores carry "cooking wine" and the State Liquor Control Board stores carry the "fine wine" ... whether Sherry or Shaoxing.

[jhirshon]

My experience is that Pagoda brand is the best bottled Shaoxing - Hua diao is the top, in my opinion.

I recently tried a Shaoxing in a brown ceramic crock witrh red ribbons (Shaoxing Hsieng Hsueh Chiew) that was unusually dark and fragrant - it is my favourite, use it mostly in cooking and the occasional sip. It was more pricey, but not by much - maybe $15?

Hope that helps - JH