Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Dining requirements: men and women


 Share

Recommended Posts

I eat salad, but I wont order it at a restaurant unless its either prix fix, or a well composed salad.

I also love quiche. And when did quiche get a bad name. Remember the hungry man commercial where the big guy gets blown away by the hair dryer because he ate quiche the night before. First of all I cant eat quiche at night because its so heavy. A baked mixture of eggs and cream/half and half plus (typically for me) salt pork or other meat and ingredients. Thats good eatin there boy, and its not exactly a vegetarian delight. So who may I ask turned that into a petite dinner?

Also I would like to say, concerning the stereotype on women, just about every woman I have met has no problem eating all of these "manly" foods once they are comfortable with their company. A couple girls/women I have eaten with the first time will only order a salad or pasta for instance. A couple more times around they are ordering the venison no problem.

Dean Anthony Anderson

"If all you have to eat is an egg, you had better know how to cook it properly" ~ Herve This

Pastry Chef: One If By Land Two If By Sea

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Continuing the masculine aspect of this thread; I don't know where salad and quiche aquired feminine conotations either. (maybe from the French language?)

Since I usually don't eat much for lunch, I'll often order salad at a restaurant, especially if they have good bread to go with it!

If I trust the place I'll have a Ceasar Salad, and if not I figure they can't screw up a Chef's Salad too badly? (I have been proven wrong about that however)

I also love quiche. My favorite is my own recipe, made with egg, condensed milk, diced ham or crumbled bacon, shredded cheddar, and leftover wild rice in a short crust.

SB (and I'm a real rough, tough, buff and sexy kind of guy :wink: )(not that there's anything wrong with not being that :unsure: )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW: Do Coney Island restaurants advertise their bullet-proof windows, or does the guy send somebody out in advance to fire off a few shots to find out?

Depends on the place and the guy.

Continuing the masculine aspect of this thread; I don't know where salad and quiche aquired feminine conotations either.  (maybe from the French language?)

SB (and I'm a real rough, tough, buff and sexy kind of guy :wink: )(not that there's anything wrong with not being that :unsure: )

Dear real rough, tough, buff and sexy SB:

Salad used to be called "rabbit food". Guys don't usually take to being called rabbitty. :laugh:

Quiche. Well. Just listen to it. It sounds like Peter Sellers trying to speak French. Amusing. :cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear real rough, tough, buff and sexy SB:

Salad used to be called "rabbit food". Guys don't usually take to being called rabbitty.  :laugh:

Guys who don't eat enough salad or other roughage will sooner or later notice that their "droppings" tend to become rather "rabbitty". :rolleyes:

Over time this tends to take the edge off their toughness and buffness.

Quiche. Well. Just listen to it. It sounds like Peter Sellers trying to speak French. Amusing.  :cool:

Not that there's anything wrong with that either!

SB (doesn't speak French :sad: )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A female friend of mine once made the comment "what kind of man orders salad for lunch" after a lunch date had. It is interesting what social expectations lurk behind even the most urbane/progressive facades.

Where, stereotypically, do foods fall on the masculine/feminine continuum and why? For instance are braised veal shanks less masculine than steak; are scallops more feminine than lobster; are certain vegetables more one than the other, e.g., is there a pecking order (no pun intended) to salad greens -- my arugula can kick your dandelion's ass? :biggrin:

Edited by menon1971 (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where, stereotypically, do foods fall on the masculine/feminine continuum and why?

Remembering that I don't speak French; I understand French nouns are either feminine or masculine in gender, but that doesn't mean they have any specific sexual orientation?

Maybe somebody fluent in the language can give some examples of French words for foods that do seem to connote masculine or feminine qualities?

SB (oui oui :rolleyes: )

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My question primarily deals with perception in American society, e.g., whether one would be viewed as more of less masculine or feminine if they ordered a particular item, but you have raised an interesting point. Most European languages make the distinctions, as in Latin, but they do not necessarily correspond to how masculinity and femininity are socially constructed and perceived in society.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My question primarily deals with perception in American society, e.g., whether one would be viewed as more of less masculine or feminine if they ordered a particular item, but you have raised an interesting point. Most European languages make the distinctions, as in Latin, but they do not necessarily correspond to how masculinity and femininity are socially constructed and perceived in society.

While they may not "correspond to how masculinity and femininity are socially constructed and perceived in society", I wonder if, over a long period of time, the words themselves and grammar of the language might not have somehow influenced the conception of gender?

I think Latin may be the first language to have used this form?

SB :hmmm:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My question primarily deals with perception in American society, e.g., whether one would be viewed as more of less masculine or feminine if they ordered a particular item, but you have raised an interesting point. Most European languages make the distinctions, as in Latin, but they do not necessarily correspond to how masculinity and femininity are socially constructed and perceived in society.

While they may not "correspond to how masculinity and femininity are socially constructed and perceived in society", I wonder if, over a long period of time, the words themselves and grammar of the language might not have somehow influenced the conception of gender?

I think Latin may be the first language to have used this form?

SB :hmmm:

Definitely not. Semitic languages all give both nouns and verbs gender and number, I believe. Greek also has gender for nouns, and I believe Sanskrit does, too (but I would welcome corrections if I'm wrong).

But really, is le pain (bread) more manly than la volaille (poultry) in French-speaking countries? I don't think so. If it were, we might as well then claim that la table (table) is more womanly than le stylo (pen). How silly would that be?

Michael aka "Pan"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely not. Semitic languages all give both nouns and verbs gender and number, I believe. Greek also has gender for nouns, and I believe Sanskrit does, too (but I would welcome corrections if I'm wrong).

But really, is le pain (bread) more manly than la volaille (poultry) in French-speaking countries? I don't think so. If it were, we might as well then claim that la table (table) is more womanly than le stylo (pen). How silly would that be?

I'm no linguist, so I have to ask what may be a question with an obvious answer, or perhaps one far to complcated for this venue?

Why do these languages have gendered words to begin with?

SB (la volaille and la table sound more "feminine" to me. Must be the "la" part? :huh:)

Edited by srhcb (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Definitely not. Semitic languages all give both nouns and verbs gender and number, I believe. Greek also has gender for nouns, and I believe Sanskrit does, too (but I would welcome corrections if I'm wrong).

But really, is le pain (bread) more manly than la volaille (poultry) in French-speaking countries? I don't think so. If it were, we might as well then claim that la table (table) is more womanly than le stylo (pen). How silly would that be?

I'm no linguist, so I have to ask what may be a question with an obvious answer, or perhaps one far to complcated for this venue?

Why do these languages have gendered words to begin with?

SB (la volaille and la table sound more "feminine" to me. Must be the "la" part? :huh:)

Why does English have the word "the"? Why do we put "s" on most of our plurals? Why did English LOSE gender for most nouns, whereas Old English had it? Who knows. Linguists can no doubt explain the history, but the "why" of language has to do with ways people can think about things. So many people, so many ways of thinking, so many languages. In Malay, there's a traditional proverb that addresses this, and is a food analogy to boot:

Banyak udang, banyak garam; banyak orang, banyak ragam.

To give as accurate (though unpoetic) a translation as possible:

"Many shrimps, much salt; many people, many kinds."

(By the way, there are no plural forms in that saying. Orang = person/people. Etc.)

Michael aka "Pan"

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is there a pecking order (no pun intended) to salad greens -- my arugula can kick your dandelion's ass?  :biggrin:

The sturdy Dandelion arrives at any greens fight lickety-split dressed up with bacon and slivered onions. Having pushed up through tough rocky soil, a sidewalk crack or the aggravating neighbors yard where the everyday killing of Dandelions is rampant and seen as a given Right, Dandelion is a tough street-fighter sort.

Arugula, on the other hand, pulls up in a Porsche. Delicately, the door is opened and Arugula steps out. A scent of the finest balsamic vinaigrette wafts out and a tiny sliver of exotic mushroom is worn tilted sideways on the head. Arugula has been coddled in the neat fields of Organic Snootyville Farm, where even the dogs talk to the plants to assure happy growth.

Which one you gonna bet on?

:smile:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A female friend of mine once made the comment "what kind of man orders salad for lunch" after a lunch date had. It is interesting what social expectations lurk behind even the most urbane/progressive facades.

I've met women who would make that sort of statement. Actually I remember one in particular who used to try to get me to go out drinking and dancing with her (the dancing being flatfooting and the drinking being in places she insisted that I needed to experience called "beerjoints" in WV). I also remember trying to get my feet into her car through the empty beer cans on the passenger side floor of the car. :biggrin: Takes all kinds.

Anyway, I am not sure whether to say "be glad" or not, that you do not live in Kazakhstan, for there we can see both "lettuce ladies" and others who are very blunt about what they feel about men and salad.

The Lettuce Ladies of Kazakhstan

Wearing sequined green bikinis made of plastic lettuce leaves and high heels, Taylor and colleague Lucy Groom, 27, shivered as they waved placards and posed in the biggest city Almaty at temperatures hovering just above freezing.

"We've got stronger immune systems because we're vegetarian," Taylor told reporters and photographers wearing winter coats in front of Kazakhstan's independence monument.

(Hmmm. Love those outfits. :laugh: )

But then, of course:

pensioner Maria Amantayeva, walking past the monument with her husband, was less impressed. She said the only problem with meat in Kazakhstan was it was now too expensive.

"Kazakhs have eaten meat for generations and many have lived into their 90s or to 100," she said. "Why are men so weak today? I'll tell you, they don't eat enough meat."

:sad:

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my experience (if I exclude my "foodie" friends) women are more appreciative of good food and good service -- as well as being more critical of it. With "foodies," I find no difference between genders.

The whole salad vs. steak business is (in my opinion) just entirely incidental, and a result of the fact that women have tended to be more concerned about their figure than men. To attribute any male or female aspects to such meals is just a -- you know, logical fallacy; correlation/causation thingie. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc bicycle dynamo, as them Latinos say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The whole salad vs. steak business is (in my opinion) just entirely incidental, and a result of the fact that women have tended to be more concerned about their figure than men. To attribute any male or female aspects to such meals is just a -- you know, logical fallacy; correlation/causation thingie. Cum hoc ergo propter hoc bicycle dynamo, as them Latinos say.

Yet when the Latins ergo hoc bicycle in an easterly direction, they would find themselves facing the ancient traditions of Chinese philosophy, balancing the yin and the yang (which of course correspond to the sexes though each person is both yin/yang) but yet, from what I can gather, there *are* specific foods recommended for women when they are expecting a baby, etc. . .

Hmmm.

Curiouser and curiouser.

:biggrin:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is there a pecking order (no pun intended) to salad greens -- my arugula can kick your dandelion's ass?  :biggrin:

The sturdy Dandelion arrives at any greens fight lickety-split dressed up with bacon and slivered onions. Having pushed up through tough rocky soil, a sidewalk crack or the aggravating neighbors yard where the everyday killing of Dandelions is rampant and seen as a given Right, Dandelion is a tough street-fighter sort.

Arugula, on the other hand, pulls up in a Porsche. Delicately, the door is opened and Arugula steps out. A scent of the finest balsamic vinaigrette wafts out and a tiny sliver of exotic mushroom is worn tilted sideways on the head. Arugula has been coddled in the neat fields of Organic Snootyville Farm, where even the dogs talk to the plants to assure happy growth.

Which one you gonna bet on?

:smile:

I see your point. My money's on the weed. :laugh:

So I guess we can gender almost everything if we just try.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(la volaille and la table sound more "feminine" to me. Must be the "la" part? )

I always get "le visage" wrong. Sounds like it should be feminine to me.

Although it might be to do with the fact that my (french) husband thinks it sounds cute when I get the articles wrong and I earn a kiss every time I do it.

La visage! La visage! (ok, that's a little over the top...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A female friend of mine once made the comment "what kind of man orders salad for lunch" after a lunch date had. It is interesting what social expectations lurk behind even the most urbane/progressive facades.

Well, I used to work as a logger; I was a soldier who served (if not with distinction then) with pride; I've shot competitively for years; I've worked construction; took Thai boxing for several years; I worked as a Mississippi River deckhand for years--in fact, I daily used to take a poo, on a tugboat, while smoking a cigar and reading a gun magazine (no lie. :forserious: ).

I like quiche in all its forms. I used to stop in at the local jazz bar in Minneapolis while waiting to get on the boat, and have soup and salad as my midday meal. Often washed it down with a glass of Sauterne. Dated a couple of the waitresses there, too.

I don't understand how in the world food is either manly or feminine. It's a stupid question, and a divisive one. It impedes the propogation of the species and interferes with tranquil digestion.

Sorry for the bump but I wanted to get it off my chest.

This whole love/hate thing would be a lot easier if it was just hate.

Bring me your finest food, stuffed with your second finest!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...