Foodie Kids/Fibbing Moms?

[srhcb]

Ronald Regan said "All great change in America starts at the dinner table.." I guess this means both bad and good..

Speaking of bad...

Wasn't it the Reagan administration that classified KETCHUP as a vegetable??

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Actually, it was a complicated example of bureaucracy v politics:

"USDA standards at the time required that a reimbursable lunch consist of five items: meat, milk, bread, and two servings of fruit or vegetables. Many kids refused to eat the veggies and the stuff wound up as "plate waste." Would-be realists on the panel reasoned that if they could count ketchup as a vegetable they could meet federal standards without having to throw away so many lima beans, thereby saving money while having no impact on the kids. Looked at in a certain light, it made sense. Ketchup wasn't the only newly permissible substitute: pickle relish and conceivably other condiments could also count as vegetables (precise interpretation was left to state officials); protein sources like tofu or cottage cheese could replace meat; and corn chips, pretzels, and other snacks could replace bread. Minimum portion sizes were also reduced, purportedly another effort to reduce waste." - Cecil Adams, Straightdope.com

The Carter administration had already classified salsa as a vegetable with little fanfare.

SB: As politicians of both liberal and conservative persuation have learned, (but never really seem to learn), when you take on the bureaurcracy, you lose!

[Carrot Top]

The only real beef I have concerning the article is the LYING.

"...women’s inability to live up to impossible standards is causing them not just inordinate amounts of stress but turning them into liars." 

"Make a woman feel bad about the food she feeds her kids, and she’ll feel like a failure.

Which is why the lies start early."  Oh honestly!! Turning them into liars?! Make a woman feel bad about her choices and she must now lie?! These are adults who *choose* to lie. Arg.

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Could be these women might need coachamatic.

[Carrot Top]

I'm with you on the "eating as a family" (and yes, we'll eat well into the dark hours as well in order to accommodate the Spawn's dojo hours) but, as far as the article goes, remember that it is an English newspaper. How much of that is also for "snob appeal"? Feeding the kids separately from the adults must be an easier way to feel posh than cooking fancy foods when one doesn't know how to cook!

There are lots of folks who feed the younger children early, and eat while the child plays after dinner. Its more a convenience than snob thing.

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I only want to point out that the emphasis I tried to make was that the article was from an English periodical. There are aspects of English culture that escape most of us...one of them being that the "posh" people do not eat with their children. Children are served separately and, if they're posh enough, in a separate room!

I've run into the English class system in another of my hobbies and it's not always rational.

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One of the things that parents *are* actually advised to do by "parenting experts" in the US is to have younger children eat separately, for the purposes of maintaining "intimacy" in the marriage.

(I don't invent the news, I just report it, ma'am. )

P.S. *Whatever* can maintain intimacy in marriage, I'm all for it. Intimacy is a good thing.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Carrot Top (log)

[Carrot Top]

Well then. My children's lunches are made, and I have driven each child to their respective school. One of the children likes to be kissed on his cheek before he gets out of the car, the other only likes to hear kisses thrown to her.

One child took hummus with crudites and pita, water and a fruit roll-up. The other took canned spaghetti-o's with apple juice and some cookies.

Both kids seem to be doing okay. Good grades, very healthy, etc etc etc.

But I will be watchful. Who knows what might happen to this one in the future who likes canned spaghetti and packaged cookies?

Edited November 15, 2006 by Carrot Top (log)

[Daniel]

I think it says and means a lot.. Definitely better then just say NO.. And you forgot to add that Reagan was all about the Jelly Beans.. I guess thats why I said I dont mind the canned spaghetti, I was more upset about kids eating alone..

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Jelly Beans and Ketchup. God forbid. I can not even *believe* I have to put these two things in the same sentence, Daniel.

It makes my head, heart, and stomach hurt, all at the same time. But excuse me for a moment, I have to go make the kids' lunches for school.

Somehow, I forgot to say "just say no" somewhere along the line.

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I also think if you look at Clinton, Jelly Beans and Ketchup is a lot better then Mc Donalds and cigars..

Edited November 15, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[srhcb]

The only real beef I have concerning the article is the LYING.

"...women’s inability to live up to impossible standards is causing them not just inordinate amounts of stress but turning them into liars." 

"Make a woman feel bad about the food she feeds her kids, and she’ll feel like a failure.

Which is why the lies start early."  Oh honestly!! Turning them into liars?! Make a woman feel bad about her choices and she must now lie?! These are adults who *choose* to lie. Arg.

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Could be these women might need coachamatic.

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I have to confess that although I found this thread fascinating reading, I really didn't "get it" until I checked the coachamatic. link.

I guess I didn't understand how that what their kids eat could be construed as a mother's defensive mechanism until I read this excerpt from a response to the coachmatic blog's How to get Over Yourself:

"Do you think this is a female phenomenon only? Do you think it manifests itself differently with men? Not just the “do these jeans fit?” kind of thing, but the whole way it’s worded in the head?" - by "Annette"

The answer, of course, is that extrapolation of self-worth into physical manifestations is just about the consumate definition of male psyche!

However, with men it's not "do these jeans fit", (ie: "is my ass too big"), but "is my house/car's horsepower/desk/steak/"etc" big enough!

SB (whose physical accoutrements are appropriately sized )(and who prefers a nice 6oz ribeye steak )

[beccaboo]

I don't know how old your boys are or what their particular likes or dislikes are BUT ... from a very early age (three?), the Spawn has loved agedashi, especially if benito flakes were included in the recipe.

Alternatively, if the kids like spicy food, ma poh tofu might be a good introduction for them as well.

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Agedashi looks delicious, so thanks for the suggestion. Funny that you mention ma po tofu - I had that in mind as the destination rather than the starting point. Elder son loves hot/spicy food, but we are building up younger son's chile tolerance.

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You can make ma po tofu with less chile and it's still flavorful from the sichuan peppercorns and things--that's something my daughter (the 'fishfingers and canned spaghetti' one) liked by the time she was 8.

When she was little, she really wouldn't eat anything. She wouldn't eat fried rice, or any rice that had anything other than rice i(eg cumin seeds) in it, she only liked the crusts of pies and not the fruit inside, she'd only eat peeled broccoli stems and peeled asparagus ends because she didn't like the 'fluff'and scales.... She's still not a very good eater at 17, but now I figure it's her business and don't feret about it.

She's always liked mung beans, though, as long as they're sweetened and in a Vietnamese treat.

Edited November 15, 2006 by beccaboo (log)

[CarolineLD]

I only want to point out that the emphasis I tried to make was that the article was from an English periodical. There are aspects of English culture that escape most of us...one of them being that the "posh" people do not eat with their children. Children are served separately and, if they're posh enough, in a separate room!

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I couldn't find any reference to eating separately or together in the article - maybe I missed it. But in any event, I don't understand your reference to eating separately being "posh". It was being written for a middle-class audience and English middle-class families don't see eating separately as posh - in fact, those who subscribe to the food expectations the article discusses would also favour all eating together at a dining table. English culture is so much more complicated than the myth of aristocratic life...

Caroline

[petite tête de chou]

The only real beef I have concerning the article is the LYING.

"...women’s inability to live up to impossible standards is causing them not just inordinate amounts of stress but turning them into liars." 

"Make a woman feel bad about the food she feeds her kids, and she’ll feel like a failure.

Which is why the lies start early."  Oh honestly!! Turning them into liars?! Make a woman feel bad about her choices and she must now lie?! These are adults who *choose* to lie. Arg.

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Could be these women might need coachamatic.

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It would seem so. I really like the title "How to get over yourself." So true, that.

Edited November 15, 2006 by petite tête de chou (log)

[Carrot Top]

Interesting article here about "The Meaning of Food", which includes some discussion of "food as symbol".

People tend to be loyal to the symbols that represent them within their cultures.

In our culture, the USA, we have choices, often, as to what our personal symbols (including foods) will be. It is a wonderful society in that way, in my opinion.

Sometimes, if you look at a finely woven carpet or tapestry, the gold threads strike the eye first as the most beautiful part. Then perhaps the rich wools, the jewel-tone colors. It could be, though, that the woof and warp of that piece of art is made of poor twine or cotton. Yet it still is a part of the whole. Canned foods, fast foods, frozen foods - they are all part of the "whole" of our culture. They may not please the connoisseur's eye, but they will remain as a working part of the whole.

Perhaps one may not be pleased, either, by the notion of parents who feed their children "fast food" or even eat at different times. My own mother, a single parent, did feed me canned food. And she did not insist we always eat at the same time.

There are incredible burdens today on working parents and on single parents in many ways.

Yes, I am *still* loyal to my own mother and her canned spaghetti. It would have been nice to have seen someone hold a hand out to help her, as she struggled to do the best she could, the best she knew how (or, if not a hand of help, at least a smile of acceptance). . .rather than to know that what was said was "Bad mother, that. Bad mother."

If there are women who lie about what they feed their kids in order to be "part of the group", I can actually understand it. Sometimes the contempt of others can be heavy, and the silence heard when truths are expressed out loud that don't fit the "norm", deafening.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Carrot Top (log)

[SuzySushi]

Sometimes, if you look at a finely woven carpet or tapestry, the gold threads strike the eye first as the most beautiful part. Then perhaps the rich wools, the jewel-tone colors. It could be, though, that the woof and warp of that piece of art is made of poor twine or cotton. Yet it still is a part of the whole. Canned foods, fast foods, frozen foods - they are all part of the "whole" of our culture. They may not please the connoisseur's eye, but they will remain as a working part of the whole....

If there are women who lie about what they feed their kids in order to be "part of the group", I can actually understand it. Sometimes the contempt of others can be heavy, and the silence heard when truths are expressed out loud that don't fit the "norm", deafening.

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My GOD, you are a beautiful writer. This is so lyrical, it almost makes me weep.

[Carrot Top]

it almost makes me weep.

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If you weep, I'll weep, and I weep easily so please don't weep.

But thank you.

[adegiulio]

Interesting article here about "The Meaning of Food", which includes some discussion of "food as symbol".

People tend to be loyal to the symbols that represent them within their cultures.

In our culture, the USA, we have choices, often, as to what our personal symbols (including foods) will be. It is a wonderful society in that way, in my opinion.

Sometimes, if you look at a finely woven carpet or tapestry, the gold threads strike the eye first as the most beautiful part. Then perhaps the rich wools, the jewel-tone colors. It could be, though, that the woof and warp of that piece of art is made of poor twine or cotton. Yet it still is a part of the whole. Canned foods, fast foods, frozen foods - they are all part of the "whole" of our culture. They may not please the connoisseur's eye, but they will remain as a working part of the whole.

Perhaps one may not be pleased, either, by the notion of parents who feed their children "fast food" or even eat at different times. My own mother, a single parent, did feed me canned food. And she did not insist we always eat at the same time.

There are incredible burdens today on working parents and on single parents in many ways.

Yes, I am *still* loyal to my own mother and her canned spaghetti. It would have been nice to have seen someone hold a hand out to help her, as she struggled to do the best she could, the best she knew how (or, if not a hand of help, at least a smile of acceptance). . .rather than to know that what was said was "Bad mother, that. Bad mother."

If there are women who lie about what they feed their kids in order to be "part of the group", I can actually understand it. Sometimes the contempt of others can be heavy, and the silence heard when truths are expressed out loud that don't fit the "norm", deafening.

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Great post for a great thread. Thanks for both.

[Carrot Top]

Thanks, adegiulio. I guess maybe we can share a couple of cannolis rather than a couple of twinkies if ever we cross paths.

[Jensen]

I only want to point out that the emphasis I tried to make was that the article was from an English periodical. There are aspects of English culture that escape most of us...one of them being that the "posh" people do not eat with their children. Children are served separately and, if they're posh enough, in a separate room!

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I couldn't find any reference to eating separately or together in the article - maybe I missed it. But in any event, I don't understand your reference to eating separately being "posh". It was being written for a middle-class audience and English middle-class families don't see eating separately as posh - in fact, those who subscribe to the food expectations the article discusses would also favour all eating together at a dining table. English culture is so much more complicated than the myth of aristocratic life...

Caroline

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Well, it was an idea...

I'm always happy to be shown the error in my thinking. Thanks, Caroline.

(Now, can you do something about the English class system in dog events? )

[Carrot Top]

SB (whose physical accoutrements are appropriately sized )(and who prefers a nice 6oz ribeye steak )

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Did you put these two thoughts on the same line because there is some direct or indirect correlation between the size of a man's steak and the size of his er. . ."physical accoutrements", Steve?

Might be a good topic to explore.

(Thanks for sharing, as always )

[srhcb]

SB (whose physical accoutrements are appropriately sized )(and who prefers a nice 6oz ribeye steak )

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Did you put these two thoughts on the same line because there is some direct or indirect correlation between the size of a man's steak and the size of his er. . ."physical accoutrements", Steve?

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I suspect there may be an inverse correlation. At least I can imagine how I would feel after devouring an 18 ounce porterhouse!

SB (does drive a big, fast car though )