Minimalist No-Knead Bread Technique (Part 1)

[WhiteTruffleGirl]

Question: Has anybody tried pyrex yet? My daughter and stepdaughter are both interested in the recipe, but only have pyrex in the cabinet, and would hate for them to get discouraged right out of the gate.

Would love to hear about results. I'm thinking my smallest muffin pan will fit into my largest Pyrex piece, and I may be able to do dinner rolls. Maybe.

If all else fails, I will take the liberty of putting cast iron on their Christmas lists. Probably a good idea anyway.

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I'd be a little wary of making it in Pyrex. Pyrex is not made like it used to be made, and if there are any stress lines in the dish, it could shatter under this kind of heat.

[merrybaker]

Question: Has anybody tried pyrex yet?

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I'd be wary of Pyrex, too. But do your daughter & stepdaughter have any traditional Corningware? I've been using a Corningware French White casserole with its heavy glass lid, and have been happy with the results. It's one that can go from freezer to oven. I don't think I'd try one of their their stoneware pots without consulting their customer service, though.

BTW, with the glass lid, I can see how the bread is rising without opening the oven or removing the lid. Neat, huh?

[McAuliflower]

Flavor Variation:

with my second loaf I added caramelized onions, shredded emmenthaler, and poppy seeds to the dough. I added this all at the very beginning step- these goodies hung out with the dough during all the rising.

It was quite tasty, though the cheese caused the load to stick to my Creuset. This resulted in the loaf being cut in half.

Wonderful flavor combo- toasting the bread was divine!

I've had bread for half of my meals the last couple days...

[MelissaH]

My part-WW loaf from yesterday was definitely an improvement. Even at "only" 475 degrees F in the oven, it was turning deep brown on top after only 15 minutes with the lid off, so I pulled it off, stuck my Thermapen inside, and got 208 degrees. It talked nicely for quite a while.

I gave it about 25 minutes to cool. Then everyone else in the house decided they'd waited long enough, thank you very much, and took the knife to the loaf.

My first tasting impression was: Yuck! It tasted wheatier than my first, all-white-flour, attempt, but that was IT. No other flavor whatsoever, and the inside seemed almost gummy, to the point where I wondered if it had actually baked long enough. I was disappointed, and wondered what I needed to do to get flavor into this stuff!

Then I waited another half hour and tried another hunk. What a difference! This time, the salt flavor came through. Then the bread flavor came through.

Lesson learned: Even if those around you have the knife, wait till the bread is cool.

I'll be using some of my starter next time, once I get it fed.

MelissaH

[merrybaker]

I just ate my first slice of no-knead Olive Bread, which quickly turned into three slices of Olive Bread. Yes, I like it!

I made a half-recipe of the NYT bread with a touch of rye flour and a lot of olives:

7.5 oz. KA-bread flour

1.0 oz. Bob’s Red Mill rye

1/2+1/8 tsp. tablesalt

1/8 tsp. instant yeast

7.0 oz. water

I mixed it with my hand and it was very sticky, but kept its shape and didn’t ooze. Let sit 14 hours. Then I poured it onto a Silpat sprinkled with rice flour, moving the bowl as I poured it, in order to make the largest “pool” of dough. (Insert poolish joke here). I sprinkled the middle third with olives, and folded as in the video, adding more olives on top of each fold (except the last). In total, I used 1 cup of whole, pitted olives -- combo of Kalamata, Israeli green, and oil-cured.

After 15 minutes, it was still fairly round from the folding, so I just tucked it under a little and put it smooth-side down into an 8” round, coiled brotform dusted with rice flour. I let it rise almost 2 hours (That was a little too long, but I got stuck in line at Shop-Rite) and placed a round of parchment on top of the bread in the brotform. I upended it onto my hand, and lowered it into a 2.5 liter CorningWare round casserole dish which had been preheated at 475 degrees. Since the smooth-side was now up, I slashed it with a razor blade. Baked it at 450 degrees for 30 minutes with preheated glass lid on, then 20 more with lid off. (Using the glass lid, I could see bread as it baked.) It tested 210 degrees at that point. I waited until it was only warm, not hot, to cut. That’s as long as I was willing to wait.

Thoughts:

I didn’t add olives right away because I was afraid their salt might retard the yeast. Also, afraid the dark olives would give dough an ugly color.

Used 1 cup olives for a half-recipe. That’s 2 cups for a full-recipe. I like olives.

With all those olives, it’s plenty salty.

Good bread. Amazingly light. Not as crisp as my first loaf, probably from lower baking temp. Would bake it longer next time. I’m not sure about that 210 degrees -- recently dropped my thermometer.

If I had some fresh thyme, that would have been nice.

Is it my favorite Olive Bread ever. No way, but sourdough takes a lot more time and fussing. Considering I decided last nite at 10 pm to try this, and that by mid-afternoon I was eating a tasty bread from only a couple minutes work, I’ll settle.

Edited November 17, 2006 by merrybaker (log)

[sparrowgrass]

I just want to testify on the amazing flexibility of this method. I mixed up the dough on Tuesday evening, figuring a Wednesday afternoon baking.

Well, duh, I had a meeting on Wed, so it didn't get baked til Thursday afternoon. It tastes great, but is a little flatter than my first effort.

I use a cast iron chicken fryer, store brand white flour, and more yeast than the recipe called for--maybe a teaspoon.

[cookman]

Does anyone know if there is an ideal temperature at which this NYT dough should be allowed to rise?

[andiesenji]

I have noted that I get a better result if I add a little extra yeast when I add more salt to this type of dough.

I have also allowed dough to overproof, refrigerated it for a couple of days, then added to it a new "sponge" to get a very flavorful loaf with nice oven spring.

I saw this method of "old" dough and "new" sponge made with both yeast and sourdough culture on a TV show about 10 or 12 years ago. I know I have it on VHS somewhere in the hundreds I haven't looked at in years. I wish I could remember the name of the bakery or even the show. I do remember that the baker made an "epi" baguette(wheat-ear shape) and a complex multi-braid that was very impressive.

[WhiteTruffleGirl]

Does anyone know if there is an ideal temperature at which this NYT dough should be allowed to rise?

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I made this bread exactly as the recipe was written the first time, and loved the crust and crumb, but wasn't thrilled with the flavor. (Okay, but not as good as my breads made with a starter...)

I made it again using a very long, slow rise in the fridge (36+ hours), and was MUCH happier with the flavor.

There is no "ideal" temp...(at least to my mind).

[MelissaH]

I have noted that I get a better result if I add a little extra yeast when I add more salt to this type of dough. 

I have also allowed dough to overproof, refrigerated it for a couple of days, then added to it a new "sponge" to get a very flavorful loaf with nice oven spring. 

I saw this method of "old" dough and "new" sponge made with both yeast and sourdough culture on a TV show about 10 or 12 years ago.  I know I have it on VHS somewhere in the hundreds I haven't looked at in years.  I wish I could remember the name of the bakery or even the show.  I do remember that the baker made an "epi" baguette(wheat-ear shape) and a complex multi-braid that was very impressive.

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Andie, are you thinking of one of the episodes of Baking with Julia, possibly the one with Steve Sullivan?

MelissaH

[annecros]

Thanks for the pyrex advice. I didn't even consider Corningware, but there is a lot of it in my household and the kids.

With cooler weather, I think I am going to do more WW (little less WW flour this time) and some raisin bread. Hearing about the additives in earlier posts has encouraged me (not that I needed a lot of encouragement).

I baked with some manioc flour (cassava flour, tapioca flour, etc.) subbed in, but I subbed in too much. I was specifically using Polvilho azedo, or sour manioc, hoping to get a flavor boost as the cassava is fermented and the lactic acid flavor remains in the flour (have it on hand for fried chicken and for thickening a blueberry pie I made over the summer - GREAT for these applications if you have never tried it). I overdid it a bit, adding half a cup, but did get a tremendous flavor boost. Next time I go this way, I will add just a quarter cup, as my results were way too dense, and maybe a wlonger ferment. Here in extreme south florida, manioc is plentiful and cheap with the South American population here. I am hoping to get a "Pao de queijo" sort of flavor eventually, with the addition of some cheese and maybe some egg.

Speaking of which, has anybody played with egg or milk yet?

Our bread consumption has gone way up! I find that two loaves every other day is getting consumed pretty economically, with a bit going into the freezer every once in a while. Great fun!

Anne

[Sony]

Our bread consumption has gone way up! I find that two loaves every other day is getting consumed pretty economically, with a bit going into the freezer every once in a while. Great fun!

Annecros (or anyone ), I was wondering if you could comment on the texture of the bread after freezing (especially if you've made loaves with only wheat flours). Also, do you thaw on the countertop? Reheat straight from frozen?

I'm making another loaf to experiment with reheating and freezing/thawing methods. And ingredients, too . This loaf has oatmeal subbed for some of the flour and a little old dough (about 1/4 cup) incorporated.

[annecros]

Our bread consumption has gone way up! I find that two loaves every other day is getting consumed pretty economically, with a bit going into the freezer every once in a while. Great fun!

Annecros (or anyone ), I was wondering if you could comment on the texture of the bread after freezing (especially if you've made loaves with only wheat flours). Also, do you thaw on the countertop? Reheat straight from frozen?

I'm making another loaf to experiment with reheating and freezing/thawing methods. And ingredients, too . This loaf has oatmeal subbed for some of the flour and a little old dough (about 1/4 cup) incorporated.

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Well, someone else is going to have to jump in here. All I have had are heels to freeze, and I am hoarding them for dressing T-Day. If enough, maybe a small bread pudding. Will thaw out in the open for the staleness factor, of course.

Wish I were more help...

[weinoo]

Haven't gotten as far as freezing yet, but my 4th attempt came out great! Right around a pound of bread flour, upped the kosher salt to 2 1/2 tsps. and retarded the dough after proofing ala slkinsey above. Here's a shot:

From the inside:

This loaf had a beautiful, crackly crust, a sweet, perfectly moist crumb and lots and lots of flavor!! Being so wet, though, I still had trouble with it sticking to floured parchment!! No matter in the final product, however.

[Sony]

Well, someone else is going to have to jump in here. All I have had are heels to freeze, and I am hoarding them for dressing T-Day. If enough, maybe a small bread pudding. Will thaw out in the open for the staleness factor, of course.

That's a great idea! Well, I'll report back on this loaf after I've experimented with freezing and reheating. Hopefully others can too. If nothing revives it appropriately for straight-up consumption, I can recycle it into stuffing, bread pudding, croutons, strata....Thank goodness for ingenious ancestors who figured out uses for less-than-pristine bread!

[annecros]

Well, someone else is going to have to jump in here. All I have had are heels to freeze, and I am hoarding them for dressing T-Day. If enough, maybe a small bread pudding. Will thaw out in the open for the staleness factor, of course.

That's a great idea! Well, I'll report back on this loaf after I've experimented with freezing and reheating. Hopefully others can too. If nothing revives it appropriately for straight-up consumption, I can recycle it into stuffing, bread pudding, croutons, strata....Thank goodness for ingenious ancestors who figured out uses for less-than-pristine bread!

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Crouton! Of course, this stuff would make great crouton. Lot's of nooks and crannies.

[andiesenji]

I have noted that I get a better result if I add a little extra yeast when I add more salt to this type of dough. 

I have also allowed dough to overproof, refrigerated it for a couple of days, then added to it a new "sponge" to get a very flavorful loaf with nice oven spring. 

I saw this method of "old" dough and "new" sponge made with both yeast and sourdough culture on a TV show about 10 or 12 years ago.  I know I have it on VHS somewhere in the hundreds I haven't looked at in years.  I wish I could remember the name of the bakery or even the show.  I do remember that the baker made an "epi" baguette(wheat-ear shape) and a complex multi-braid that was very impressive.

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Andie, are you thinking of one of the episodes of Baking with Julia, possibly the one with Steve Sullivan?

MelissaH

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No, I would have remembered if it was Julia. It was more like one of the "Great Chef's" shows on PBS.

It was two men bakers being interviewed by another guy. I vaguely recall one of the bakers had a ponytail and one was wearing a skullcap. For some reason, I think it may have been in Canada, possibly Toronto.

I believe they mixed and proofed the dough in shallow rectangular tubs, which I thought was very clever. - - - The problem is that over the years I have watched so many of these shows that they all seem to run together after a while, unless there is something really distinctive.

[andiesenji]

Try my method of refreshing the bread. If frozen, allow it to thaw part-way, then do the water/oven thing.

In fact, I am going to pull a loaf of Asiago cheese bread out of the freezer now and refresh it when it has thawed a bit.

[dockhl]

I believe they mixed and proofed the dough in shallow rectangular tubs, which I thought was very clever.  - - - The problem is that over the years I have watched so many of these shows that they all seem to run together after a while, unless there is something really distinctive.

I just did my first rise in a gallon ziplock bag with very little difficulty getting it out. I folded it and have put the floured loaf into a tupperware container in the fridge overnight, will bake it in the morning (since I forgot to clean my oven and a potato blew up in it yesterday )

I anticipate simply upending the loaf into my hot Rometopf...........

BTW, this one has more salt, black pepper, 1 c semolina and a handful of Parmesan ..............

[smallworld]

Question: Has anybody tried pyrex yet?

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I have. Pyrex was all I could find locally (I'm in Japan, not a big home-baking country). It worked just fine, and I loved that I could watch the bread bake through the oven window.

The Pyrex was brand-new though-- wouldn't want to use anything that was old and worn. I'll keep looking for a proper oven-safe pot though (this is a great excuse to finally buy Le Creuset).

I have a bunch of questions (as a non-baker without access to the right equipment and ingredients), so I'll write a proper post when I get the time.

[prasantrin]

I have. Pyrex was all I could find locally (I'm in Japan, not a big home-baking country).

Japan is a huge home-baking country! But mostly pretty cakes and cookies, definitely not these kinds of breads!

The Pyrex was brand-new though-- wouldn't want to use anything that was old and worn. I'll keep looking for a proper oven-safe pot though (this is a great excuse to finally buy Le Creuset).

Costco still had some big pots the last time I was there.

I have a bunch of questions (as a non-baker without access to the right equipment and ingredients), so I'll write a proper post when I get the time.

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I'm glad you're doing it first! I've been meaning to try it, but have been trying to decide which flour to use, etc. I do have a nice rompertof (sp?) that I brought back from Romania a year or so ago which I could use for baking, and I also have a big pyrex dish if needed. But I'm still scared!

[dockhl]

I believe they mixed and proofed the dough in shallow rectangular tubs, which I thought was very clever.  - - - The problem is that over the years I have watched so many of these shows that they all seem to run together after a while, unless there is something really distinctive.

I just did my first rise in a gallon ziplock bag with very little difficulty getting it out. I folded it and have put the floured loaf into a tupperware container in the fridge overnight, will bake it in the morning (since I forgot to clean my oven and a potato blew up in it yesterday )

I anticipate simply upending the loaf into my hot Rometopf...........

BTW, this one has more salt, black pepper, 1 c semolina and a handful of Parmesan ..............

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OK, just took it out of the oven-------I was cleaning the oven, and it threw off such a nice heat......so I took the loaf out of the fridge (in the Tupperware) and set it on the stovetop for 1 1/2-2 hrs to rise. Put an old enameled steel pan in to heat, and when the time was right, plopped the loaf into the heated pan.

450 for 30 min, top on, 25 top off.

Beautiful, if small loaf, DID NOT SING (what does this mean?) but extremely flavorful, not too salty (as I'd worried), GREAT crust. (This is just tasting a little heel; the rest is too hot!)

I'll let you know about the cooled/toasted /sandwich version tomorrow

BTW, I like the convenience of fridge proofing in the Ziplock, and doing the 2nd rise in the Tupperware. Worked just fine, without flying flour !

[annecros]

I have. Pyrex was all I could find locally (I'm in Japan, not a big home-baking country). It worked just fine, and I loved that I could watch the bread bake through the oven window.

The Pyrex was brand-new though-- wouldn't want to use anything that was old and worn. I'll keep looking for a proper oven-safe pot though (this is a great excuse to finally buy Le Creuset).

I have a bunch of questions (as a non-baker without access to the right equipment and ingredients), so I'll write a proper post when I get the time.

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Thanks. The girls have newer pyrex, but corningware as well. I will advise them that it has been done. I was wondering how the clear glass, or even just a clear glass top, would effect browning, but it doesn't seem to matter and I am sure it is fun to watch. Keep us posted!

[annecros]

I'm glad you're doing it first!  I've been meaning to try it, but have been trying to decide which flour to use, etc.  I do have a nice rompertof (sp?) that I brought back from Romania a year or so ago which I could use for baking, and I also have a big pyrex dish if needed.  But I'm still scared!

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I was scared at first as well. I finally came to the conclusion that the most I had to loose was less than a dollar in ingredients, and even if the results were less than desirable, bread is easily recyclable. Bread crumbs in the freezer if nothing else! This recipe is hard to mess up. I have never worked with a bread recipe that was so versatile and forgiving.

That being said, MelissaH's great results are what put me over the edge and got flour under my fingernails again!

Anne

[annecros]

Beautiful, if small loaf, DID NOT SING (what does this mean?) but extremely flavorful, not too salty (as I'd worried), GREAT crust. (This is just tasting a little heel; the rest is too hot!)

I'll let you know about the cooled/toasted /sandwich version tomorrow 

BTW, I like the convenience of fridge proofing in the Ziplock, and doing the 2nd rise in the Tupperware. Worked just fine, without flying flour !

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When people say it sings, they mean that crackling noise from the actual loaf when it goes on the cooling rack for the first ten minutes or so. I can hear my loaves cooling in the next room! If you got that wonderful crust, the loaf was probably talking to you!

Makes great sandwich/toast/grilled cheese. Hubby is still eating it just buttered 36 hours later, so it seems to keep well. I don't think I need to buy bread unless I want Challah or something. Between this, biscuits and cornbread - I think I've got our bread needs covered.

Anne

Great idea with the ziplock and the tupperware. I would have worried about enough air getting to the yeast, but if it works, it works. Much neater, I bet. I live in a tropical climate, and was beginning to get an ant problem, yuck!

Edited November 18, 2006 by annecros (log)