Gas range: Wolf? Thermador? Bluestar? Viking?

[horseflesh]

It's been a while, anyone have something new to share in the hunt for the ideal range? My oven just started stinking up the house with gas. I am sure it can be repaired, but since it's a 30 year old builder special, I am considering this an opportunity to upgrade. I'm looking for a 30" unit which should include a high-output wok burner. I'm flexible on other features and price, but reliability is critical to me. (Baker-friendly features would be a bonus, my wife likes to bake but she is not a gearhead like me!)

 

I've read that BlueStar is good, though you can expect to need to calibrate the oven and replace igniters on the range, though these are also said to be jobs you can do with just a screwdriver. 

 

As far as hardware store brands go I like the look of the dual-oven-zone Samsung that was posed upthread. I'm not opposed to getting something "boring" like Samsung or GE if it meets my needs. 

 

[gfweb]

I have a Blue Star. It is a beast (in a good way). I love it.

 

Essentially a home model of a restaurant range, it puts out the heat and is without frills. There are no electronics except the oven thermostat and the convection fan and the ignitors.

 

The broiler is nuclear-powered.

 

The only failing is that the burners lack a real simmer setting. Even the simmer burner is too hot. So I use a heat-diffuser.

 

I love the Blue Star

 

 

[Barrytm]

I have the Bluestar RNB.  As Gfweb says, is it a tank, very solidly built, and puts out a ton of heat.   Years ago, the ignitors were not designed all that well, and could fail prematurely, but I think they have been redesigned and are much more robust.  I did have one fail, but was a 10 minute job to replace, and the range came with a few replacements.    As to simmer, the grids can be positioned in a high or low setting, by spinning them a quarter turn, so if the simmer burner is not low enough, you can just adjust the grate. 

[paulraphael]

How are the Bluestar grates if you have a very small pan, like a 0.75L saucepan? Some of the pictures and videos make it look like a pan could slip between the grates and never bee seen again.

[gfweb]

23 minutes ago, paulraphael said:

How are the Bluestar grates if you have a very small pan, like a 0.75L saucepan? Some of the pictures and videos make it look like a pan could slip between the grates and never bee seen again.

 

My grates are great with small pans. No room to slip. Not even with the irritating and wobbly 1qt saucier.

[horseflesh]

I've read elsewhere that the preheat on a Bluestar RNB oven is pretty slow. I saw one poster somewhere say they won't bother using the oven on a weeknight, which sounds nuts to me. How slow is it? 

 

Has anyone gotten time on the Bluestar "Platinum" series? It lists a faster oven preheat. It also costs a heck of a lot more, but setting that aside for now...

 

[Barrytm]

horseflesh,  the manual says it can take up to 1/2 hour to preheat.  I have never timed it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took 15 to  20 minutes. I have a combi, which preheats in about 5 minutes, so i use that more often. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Barrytm (log)

[weinoo]

i've had nothing but love with my Wolf gas range.

 

Especially great at simmering, as all 4 burners have 2 separate settings...

 

\

 

When you turn the control knob all the way, it kicks on the lower burner, which is adjustable for simmering...

 

 

And I upgraded with full-extension racks that hold 50 lbs. each...

 

 

Someone upthread claimed the knobs felt flimsy, but I strongly disagree.  And like gfweb's Blue Star, the broiler is a beast. No electronics here either.

[Barrytm]

horseflesh,  I timed it today - it took 18 minutes for the oven light to go off when set to 350 F .  Some suggest that the oven be allowed to cycle off and on a time or two to settle in before baking, but I did not time that.  I did adjust the oven dial the other day, and when set to 350 ,  it varied from 340 to 360, which I thought was pretty good for a gas oven.    I am not a fan of the knobs - they are metal, but the attachment to the controls feels flimsy.  I much preferred the knobs on the Viking, and the ones on the Wolf look substantial too. 

[rotuts]

@Barrytm

 

Oooooo

 

Oooooooooo

 

you have a Combi ?

 

I do wish you might post about it

 

w many .jpg's

 

I don't really Lust after a Combi

 

I do have a CSO and one on reserve

 

so Im fine

 

do you know anyone at 

 

Miele ?

 

if you do

 

they need to get to work

 

Now

 

in this

 

https://www.yaleappliance.com/Ranges/Miele/Induction-HR1622I.aspx

 

w a reservior

 

 

 

 

[horseflesh]

8 hours ago, Barrytm said:

horseflesh,  I timed it today - it took 18 minutes for the oven light to go off when set to 350 F .  Some suggest that the oven be allowed to cycle off and on a time or two to settle in before baking, but I did not time that.  I did adjust the oven dial the other day, and when set to 350 ,  it varied from 340 to 360, which I thought was pretty good for a gas oven.    I am not a fan of the knobs - they are metal, but the attachment to the controls feels flimsy.  I much preferred the knobs on the Viking, and the ones on the Wolf look substantial too. 

 

Barry, thank you for doing that. 18 minutes isn't bad at all, and neither is that temperature swing. 

 

[weinoo]

I don't know about anyone else, but when preheating my oven, I always go for at least 45 minutes. The air temp will kick off the thermostat, but the oven internals aren't really at that same temperature you're looking for.  Especially when doing something like baking bread or making a pizza.

Edited July 2, 2018 by weinoo (log)

[Anna N]

I was having a number of baking disasters because I actually believed that when the preheat buzzer went off on my oven it had reached temperature. Not one of the units you are discussing but certainly would make me question the reliability of any signal!  Mine still had at least 50°F to go before it was the temperature I had preset. 

[weinoo]

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

I was having a number of baking disasters because I actually believed that when the preheat buzzer went off on my oven it had reached temperature. Not one of the units you are discussing but certainly would make me question the reliability of any signal!  Mine still had at least 50°F to go before it was the temperature I had preset. 

Exactly, @Anna N.  The thermostat measures the air temp in the oven, I believe, which lowers dramatically as soon as the oven is opened to put something in.  If the oven is properly preheated (the walls, the floor, the ceiling, etc.), especially if there's a pizza stone or steel in there, the drop won't be as dramatic, and it will recover a hell of a lot faster - all especially important when baking.

[SLB]

I have a Bluestar RCS (I think this was replaced by the RNB, and I suspect that this is why I got a decent deal on the range).  I love the simplicity of its function, I strongly prefer the open burners, and I love the power; but in seven years I have had to replace like three of the igniters and something major busted in the oven (not the convection fan -- the oven stopped working actually).  Also,  the upper rack is really just too close to the broiler -- I always need to use the next rack level, which is honestly just a bit too far away for true surface-cooking.   I can deal with all of this, but it seems like more hassle than one should be dealing with at that price point.    

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by SLB (log)

[gfweb]

On 6/30/2018 at 5:32 PM, horseflesh said:

I've read elsewhere that the preheat on a Bluestar RNB oven is pretty slow. I saw one poster somewhere say they won't bother using the oven on a weeknight, which sounds nuts to me. How slow is it? 

 

Has anyone gotten time on the Bluestar "Platinum" series? It lists a faster oven preheat. It also costs a heck of a lot more, but setting that aside for now...

 

 

I'd say 15 to 20 min, at most. But remember , it's a BIG FRIGGING OVEN...full sheet pan. These things take some time

[horseflesh]

15-20 is no big deal. I actually do most of my (savory) baking in a ceramic grill, so I obviously don't mind a little setup time. 

[paulraphael]

An infrared thermometer is helpful in figure out when an oven is preheated. You have to point it at multiple surfaces and guess at how to average them (surprise ... they may vary by 100°F depending one where they are in relation to the fire) but you'll get accustomed to how the surface temperatures correlate with the air temperature when the thing's fully heated. And you'll know when you hit the point where nothing's getting hotter. If there's something heavy in the oven like a dutch oven or a pizza steel, just measure that. 

[tikidoc]

We really love our Lacanche. They have several options for cooktops. We have a ‘French top” which is an 18k burner with a large solid cast iron plate over the burner, with a cutout circle in which you can put the included wok ring. With the cutout in place, it is great for things like big pots of tomato sauce or stacks. There are also several options for the other burners including one that gets very low. It comes in a 28” version, with either one oven and storage drawer or an oven and a smaller second broiler oven. We have a gas range with electric convection ovens and love it. I also like that there is minimal technology involved. No computer electronics, just excellent build quality to last a lifetime. And it comes in lots of cool colors, if that matters to you - was not part of our decision to go with this range, but I do like the look of the blue in our kitchen.

 

 

[weinoo]

Would love to see a picture of that looking down at the cooking surface!

 

I think the price of that range almost makes the Wolf/Blue Star look like a bargain, but once again, I think if you're doing a full kitchen reno, it doesn't really up the total cost by that much of a percent.  And...it's gorgeous.

[gfweb]

30 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Would love to see a picture of that looking down at the cooking surface!

 

I think the price of that range almost makes the Wolf/Blue Star look like a bargain, but once again, I think if you're doing a full kitchen reno, it doesn't really up the total cost by that much of a percent.  And...it's gorgeous.

That was our logic with the blue star.  I think it was 5k , not cheap but it isn't a POS (like our GE Profile fridge) and will last forever

[TicTac]

+1 in the Wolf camp.  This is my second Wolf range (I have the 6 burner) and love it.

 

That blue range looks very nice, wonder what the price is like compared to a Wolf....

 

And yes, Wolf knobs are a bit 'flimsy' but that's because they are removable.  Makes for very easy cleaning!  Every now and then I will swap out my Black knobs for the Red ones to spruce things up 😛

 

[tikidoc]

Weinoo...

[curls]

5 hours ago, TicTac said:

+1 in the Wolf camp.  This is my second Wolf range (I have the 6 burner) and love it.

 

That blue range looks very nice, wonder what the price is like compared to a Wolf....

 

And yes, Wolf knobs are a bit 'flimsy' but that's because they are removable.  Makes for very easy cleaning!  Every now and then I will swap out my Black knobs for the Red ones to spruce things up 😛

 

 

I'm another one in the Wolf camp and very happy with mine. It is a six burner with the gas oven (actually it is all propane -- too expensive to get natural gas to the house). It is usually decked out with stainless steel knobs (not at all flimsy) but once or twice I have swapped those out for the red knobs. Love having the ability to do a low simmer on all the burners (see @weinoo's post for photos of how the low simmer operates on the Wolf).

Edited July 8, 2018 by curls
added link to weinoo's photo post (log)

[horseflesh]

Yesterday I saw some of this stuff in person, we have a good showroom nearby. 

 

I told the sales guy what I was looking for: 30" range, gas only, reliable, with at least one high-BTU burner... "high" being negotiable... everything else open to discussion. I told him my price range was up to $6k for a range and a new hood, but obviously, didn't want to spend more than I had to. 

 

He had a strong preference for the Wolf GR304, which they did have a good price on due to one a manufacturer incentive. ($4335) It's a no-frills unit with one big burner, a convention oven, and an IR broiler. He was emphatic that Wolf was the more reliable choice among the low-end high-end. Interestingly he also thought the Wolf was easier to clean, but when I look up Wolf vs Bluestar discussions, that never seems to be the case. This Wolf also has black enamel interior, so if the blue enamel chipping problem is still a thing, I wouldn't have to worry about that. 

 

I also looked at the Bluestar RCS while I was there. The GR304 has more features than the RCS, but at least I could see the Bluestar open burners in person finally. And I have to say, I really liked the way the Bluestar was put together, and the shape of the burners, how it looks like it'd be easier to clean, AND the bigger oven. 

 

They had that Samsung with the split door too, which looked like a good value, but it's available in dual fuel only. I am not interested in adding electric service right now, so that's out. The sales guy also said that while the Samsungs are not unreliable, "if something goes wrong, good luck" getting service. 

 

As long as I am talking about this much dough, I don't think I am interested in the Bluestar RCS because I'd miss both the simmer and wok burner. Right now it feels like it's between the Wolf GR304 and the Bluestar RNB. I asked for a quote on the RNB, though I guess it's just going to be the price I see online everywhere. 

 

For hoods, I was steered to the Zephyr Typhoon, which did seem nice. It will work with my existing cabinets/ducting, it's quiet, and will move 850 CFM. I had been thinking I wanted a hood with baffles though, and the Zephyr has a different kind of grease trap. If anyone has experience with this hood I would love to know about it; the claims are very appealing. 

 

This is a tough decision!