La Casa Vecchia

[shugga]

We finally got to La Casa Vecchia on Closter Dock Rd., Closter, last night. We tried to call to find out if they had a liquor liscence, but 2 - 411 operators could not find the listing. So we put a bottle of wine in the car just in case, and took off.

They have only been open for a few months and do not serve liquor and there isn't a liquor store within walking distance. So be sure to BYOB.

I had Chilean Sea Bass served over julienne vegetables with smashed potatoes in a light tomato sauce. It was very good. Each entree comes with a house salad. And neither my hubby or myself had appetizers.

He had cappelini, with shrimp, asparagus and mushrooms in a garlic oil sauce. Then for dessert he ordered the banana split with 2 spoons. It was a huge scoop of chocolate ice cream covered with whipped cream surrounded by bananas and drizzled with caramel sauce. Yummy!!

It was a pleasant large storefront restaurant, very "family friendly".

[Rosie]

Did you ever get the phone #? Do you know the exact address and what was there before they opened? Thanks for the info.

[Lreda]

Chilian sea bass has been boycotted by most chefs in North Jersey. This has been written in publications and most customers & friends that I speak to are aware of the boycott. This is similar to what happened a few years ago with swordfish. Rumor is that Chilian sea bass is being overfished and is close to being extinct. I have to be honest, I have been to restaurants and have seen other tables order what is supposed to be Chilian sea bass but looks like something else similar. Also Chilian sea bass is available through my fish purvaiors(Sic) but the price is high, $10.00 a pound. What does everyone think about this supposed boycott and will it stop you from ordering this or another boycotted product?

[ngatti]

I am proud to be part of 'Take a Pass on Chilean Sea Bass'. At least until the fishery returns. I haven't served it since march.

I talked a major booking (wedding for 120) out of it about 6 weeks ago. They were understanding of my discomfort serving this fish. They booked before the boycott.

You are correct Lou, all my purveyors still list it as available.

Nick

[shugga]

I was given a card for the restaurant.

It's at 190 Closter Dock Rd

Closter, NJ

201-767-9190

They are closed on Mondays.

My husband said the building used to be a carpet store. (That might explain the strange carpet hanging on one wall. It looked like people in kimonas dancing. Very strange for an Italian restaurant)

Oh, about the Chilean Sea Bass, I have heard about the boycott and the notion of not ordering it did pass briefly through my mind, but I do like the fish and was tired of salmon, don't like mahi mahi, tuna or swordfish, so I said what the HEY if they serve it I'll eat it! The fish is already caught and dead, so why not!

[ngatti]

Not being critical, shugga.

It still appears on many menus. I just don't serve it. I don't have my knickers in a twist over it. YMMV

Nick

[Lreda]

Same shugga .

[Rail Paul]

Oh, about the Chilean Sea Bass, I have heard about the boycott and the notion of not ordering it did pass briefly through my mind, but I do like the fish and was tired of salmon, don't like mahi mahi, tuna or swordfish, so I said what the HEY if they serve it I'll eat it!  The fish is already caught and dead, so why not!

Do you have the same attitude toward clothing made in sweat shops by children and mistreated pregnant women? Gives 'em jobs, doesn't it? Kathie Lee Gifford and Wal-Mart certainly ran for the hills when that mess came to light.

If restaurants won't serve sea bass, or carry it until there's better management of the fisheries, the message gets down the food chain very quickly. Intelligent, well managed fisheries will produce better, higher paying jobs than rampant overfishing will.

[tommy]

Rumor is that Chilian sea bass is being overfished and is close to being extinct.

i question how accurate the "rumor" really is.

[dodge621]

[. I have to be honest, I have been to restaurants and have seen other tables order what is supposed to be Chilian sea bass but looks like something else similar. ]

What is the fish you are referring to that you say looks like something else similiar.

[Rosie]

Lou--I stopped ordering Chilean sea bass long before the boycott because I was tired of eating it. Every restaurant had it on their menu and it was becoming boring to me. In any case, I would support the boycott.

[Lreda]

Rumor is that Chilian sea bass is being overfished and is close to being extinct.

i question how accurate the "rumor" really is.

I also question the valitity of the rumor because it is still being offered by our purveyers. Maybe it's just to make it seem like an even more popular fish to those that are unfamiliar with it.

Dodge, when you fillet a tilefish it give the apperance of Chilian sea bass. The texture is also similar. Both fishes are also pretty much bland which makes it popular among those that really don't care for fish but for health & dietary reasons wish to incorporate it into their diet.

Lou

[msp]

Chilean Sea Bass will soon be extinct. That is not rumor, that is hard fact-- confirmed by the agencies which monitor the seas in which it is caught. More than 60% of the chilean sea bass (not a bass at all, but actually "patagonia toothfish") that we eat has been pirated or poached. And as long as there is someone willing to eat that last fish, it will be caught and sold.

Americans consume over 2/3rds of the fish they eat in restaurants, not at home. By not ordering chilean sea bass when you see it on a menu, you send the chef/restauratuer the message to not buy it. If we all send that message, perhaps we won't fish the last chilean sea bass out of the water. And we could certainly all pleasure our palates with other fish while the stocks rebuild. (There are great success stories about resting stocks. I went to Gloucester MA fishing docks and talked to fishermen about once endangered cod that was practically jumping in their boats, thanks to better stock management)

For further information on the subject, go to seaweb.com, look in the archives of the NYT for several recent articles, or see the June 2002 Cooking Light for my article concerning the chef's boycott to which Nick refers. Or, for more in depth information, send me a PM and I will send you the full text of an longer article I wrote on the topic.

And please, do not jump all over consumers who are skeptical about the situation. Those of us who are aware of the plight of this (and other) nearly extinct species have an obligation to educate, not to disparage. Not nearly enough has been done to publicize this. We who love food and care about it's sustainability can pitch in by telling our friends and colleagues.

[Lreda]

msp, you've got me on board. I haven't seved Chilian sea bass since early May when I found out about the boycott. I will not do so until this boycott is lifted.

[msp]

oops...one more important note: Sea Bass is not the same thing as Chilean Sea bass, although some menus don't specify and you will need to ask. They are very different fish with very different flavors and tesxtures. Sea Bass is now being farmed with wonderful tasting results-- and there are no sustainability issues associated with it.

Do not try substituting sea bass for Chilean Sea bass in recipes-- it won't work. Try halibut which looks similar but is not nearly as fatty, or very fatty mild tasting fish like black cod (sable) which is sometimes available at Whole Foods

[shugga]

Thought you might be interested in another side to the story.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/food/articles/0...418proscons.htm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...22_seabass.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...A7673-2002Jun18

Not saying I agree with either, just presenting another viewpoint.

[Rail Paul]

Thought you might be interested in another side to the story.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/food/articles/0...418proscons.htm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...22_seabass.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?p...A7673-2002Jun18

Not saying I agree with either, just presenting another viewpoint.

No response to my question?

[shugga]

Nope! Didn't think it warranted one.

[ngatti]

oops...one more important note: Sea Bass is not the same thing as Chilean Sea bass, although some menus don't specify and you will need to ask. They are very different fish with very different flavors and tesxtures. Sea Bass is now being farmed with wonderful tasting results-- and there are no sustainability issues associated with it.

Do not try substituting sea bass for Chilean Sea bass in recipes-- it won't work. Try halibut which looks similar but is not nearly as fatty, or very fatty mild tasting fish like black cod (sable) which is sometimes available at Whole Foods

If by Sea Bass you mean the locally caught Black Sea Bass, then I'm sorry to disappoint. The quarterly quota must have been reached. The fishery is now closed.

The Black Sea Bass's flesh is much more akin to Red Snapper. I have not tasted the farmed. Are you sure it's Black Sea Bass that is being farmed and not Hybrid Striped Bass? I just read an in depth article re Black Sea Bass, in this months Seafood Business. No mention of farming.

If it is farm raised Striper than I must disagree. The taste, in my experience, ranges from the inoffensive to the downright grassy. This to do with the fact that the hybrid is not a true Striped Bass but rather a cross between a striper and a freshwater fish (perch?). It was once explained to me that these fish must be purged before marketing. Hence the residual grassiness.

But I have moved away from farmed fish in general. It has its own set of environmental (salmon) and economic (catfish) problems. Though when winter sets in, I'll have to revert to farm raised salmon.

Shugga, most of us would like the fishery to rebound as well as see a more reliable system of tagging and documenting the fish that are landed. This in order to remove the poachers from the equation. As it stands now, I don't trust the sources. You don't see much Orange Roughy about anymore. That's because it was fished out. Nearly to extinction. Many of us would not like to see this happen to the Chilean Sea Bass stocks as well.

Nick

[Fat Guy]

Chilean Sea Bass will soon be extinct. That is not rumor, that is hard fact-- confirmed by the agencies which monitor the seas in which it is caught.

What agencies are those? Here's what the agency responsible for monitoring such things in the United States has to say on the subject:

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/trade/chile.pdf

Would some civic-minded New Jerseyoid please open a new thread on the Media board, including the various nice links that have been posted here, so we can get all the Chilean sea bass talk in one place?

[msp]

The Antarctic Project, a group which monitors the waters where the toothfish is caught, is one such group that is alarmed by the dwindling stock of the fish. It is expected that the fish will shortly be added to the endangered list, but it is also probably too late to save the stock. (Not incidentally, two species of birds are also in danger because of toothfish fishing: the albatross and the petrel) The NOAA (see Fat Guy's link) has set catch limits, and is requiring papers on legally caught fish in recognition of the decline of the stock. I do not believe any agency denies the fish is in serious decline.

American fishermen are the ones who are fishing toothfish most legally, and that is why you can get fish with good papers. The sad fact is that we America buys only ten percent of the toothfish, and only about 15 percent of the fishermen taking toothfish. The remining fish is taken into other countries by non-American fishermen. The waters, which we don't control, are very difficult to monitor.

So American fishermen may be doing everything right, but unless there is a complete moratorium, illegal fishing will continue to deplete the stocks...into non-existence. Sadly, a moratorium is extremely unlikely.

And Nick-- not all fish farming is harmful, either economically or environmentally. There are fascinating examples of fish farming that actually produces by-product which feeds another crop. You may not like the flavor of the farmed striped bass, but in California, it is being farmed in an environmentally sensitive way. Much of fish farming is still in the dark ages-- like most shrimp farming-- but progress is being made.

(And fish farming will become an increasingly important way to feed the world population)

The Marine Stewardship Council at www.msc.org is a good source of information : they are assessing and recognizing healthy well, managed fisheries. MSC works with the National Audobon Society's Living Oceans Program. Sea Web and Seafood Choices Alliance are conservation groups working toward ocean health, and there are others. Chefs may be interested in the program run by Chef's Collaborative, although even some conservationists have issue with the very anti-farming stance Chef's Collaborative took a couple of years ago.

Its all about balance. Just as we could save toothfish from extinction if humans were willing to fish it in a balanced (not greedy) manner, the arguments for fishing and farming any species must take into account human nature and ecological needs.

[Rachel Perlow]

I have created a new topic on the Food Media forum. After this point, please do not discuss Chilean Sea Bass here, instead, click the link and continue the discussion over there.

Thank you.

You may now continue to discuss La Casa Vecchia if you wish.