goose liver ravioli

[James Satriano]

I have some tinned goose liver imported from france and wondered about making ravioli with it. Would you add anything to the tinned liver before making the ravioli? Do you think that it could be put in a pastry bag and piped on a sheet of fresh pasta and make like the agnolotti described in the French Laundry cookbook. I was also thinking of using a brown butter sage sauce. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I can't help but think the liver would be a horrible waste in ravioli - covering up and conflicting too many of the delicate flavors AND consistency of the liver in pasta. I think the pasta-to-liver ratio would be too high. I'm thinking about smaller brioche-filled foie gras puffs I've had, where the bread-to-liver ratio was higher but the lightness and egginess of brioche accentuated the liver. Could be wrong, though...

[James Satriano]

I can't help but think the liver would be a horrible waste in ravioli - covering up and conflicting too many of the delicate flavors AND consistency of the liver in pasta. I think the pasta-to-liver ratio would be too high. I'm thinking about smaller brioche-filled foie gras puffs I've had, where the bread-to-liver ratio was higher but the lightness and egginess of brioche accentuated the liver. Could be wrong, though...

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thanks carolyn

was wondering what mario does at babbo with his goose liver ravioli

[Daniel]

I had an awesome goose liver ravioli at Circo in Vegas.. I have been there 4 or 5 times in the last three years.. It was always awesome...

[HKDave]

The duck liver version of what Batali does at Babbo is on page 118-9 of the Babbo cookbook, which you can preview for free on Amazon (you have to sign in to preview the inside pages).

I would not go with a brown butter sage sauce with this; Batali does a balsamic butter sauce which sounds like it might cut the richness better.

[BryanZ]

The addition of the balsamic should work well. I've made a version of Batali's recipe and it turned out quite well. Make sure your pasta is appropriately delicate and thin.

[James Satriano]

funny, on the Babbo website the menu listing says goose liver ravioli.

[MobyP]

It worked out very well for me. This isn't batali's. The sauce is based around jerusalem artichokes, after a ducasse idea.

Edited October 13, 2006 by MobyP (log)

[Vadouvan]

I can't help but think the liver would be a horrible waste in ravioli - covering up and conflicting too many of the delicate flavors AND consistency of the liver in pasta. I think the pasta-to-liver ratio would be too high. I'm thinking about smaller brioche-filled foie gras puffs I've had, where the bread-to-liver ratio was higher but the lightness and egginess of brioche accentuated the liver. Could be wrong, though...

Indeed you are Carolyn......Goose liver raviolis can be transcedental if made properly.

the issue of liver to pasta ratio is simply a function of making good pasta than can be rolled out thinly without breaking......as in using a higher strength flour.....basically eggs and "00" flour.

Would you add anything to the tinned liver before making the ravioli? Do you think that it could be put in a pastry bag and piped on a sheet of fresh pasta and make like the agnolotti described in the French Laundry cookbook. I was also thinking of using a brown butter sage sauce. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

1. YES you would have to add something to the liver because once the ravioli hits the hot water, foie mousse is a cold to room temp emulsion and would break in hot water thus leaving you with grease filled raviolis. You would need to make it a heat stable emulsion.

Measure out the following :

Weigh your liver mousse....outside the can.

Weigh 30% of the above weight Boneless skinless chicken breast and freeze it till almost solid.

Cut up the chicken into small pieces before freezing.

Buy white port (its cheap) and reduce 1 cup of it to about 1/4 cup and cool.

1 Whole egg

1/2 cup Chilled Heavy Cream

salt and pepper to taste....(pinch)

Puree everything but the cream in a food processor quickly till well emulsified.

Check with a spatula.

Turn machine back on and add the cream till emulsified.

Adjust flavor with salt and white pepper.

Transfer to a pastry bag and keep refrigerated.

You can basically use the agnolotti dough from the Laundry cookbook and bang out ravioli's or agnolottis with this filling.

Your sage brown butter and some Reggiano sounds divine.......

Edited to add:

And you can skip the Frenchie old school method above by simply using 20% chicken breast and methylcellulose (methocel) thus avoiding the eggs and cream ..........giving a more intense Liver flavor.

Edited October 13, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

This all sounds so intriguing! Anyone care to come to my house and make me some? <grin>

[James Satriano]

thank you vadouvan for the response and recipe. i have to admit i had to google "methocel" and for the rest of the uninformed it is a water soluable polymer. I thinik I'll stick to the egg and cream. I am going to try these on Saturday and will report back next week.

[BryanZ]

And you can skip the Frenchie old school method above by simply using 20% chicken breast and methylcellulose (methocel) thus avoiding the eggs and cream ..........giving a more intense Liver flavor.

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This was my exactly thought as I read through the original post. "Why not just bind with some methocel?" I'm glad at least some of my ideas make sense. Actually doing the above, however, is very different than simply coming up with the idea.

[Vadouvan]

Actually doing the above, however, is very different than simply coming up with the idea.

Awww cmon Zupon, you dont seem to be strapped for time.....

How goes it at Zze kitchen lab...?

[scott123]

1/2 cup Chilled Heavy Cream

Is heavy cream that effective of a stabilizer? Even if it is a good stabilizer heavy cream has a strong tendency to coat the palate and mask flavors, flavors, that, in this instance, I don't think you'd want to be masking.

The protein in the chicken and the egg are good emulsifiers/stabilizers, the port might be a nice addition to flavor, but the cream...

Regarding the port, if you can reduce it even further (2 T.) without impairing the taste, I'd recommend it, as water tends to run contrary to stabilization. With less water, this recipe shouldn't require quite so much chicken and egg to maintain an emulsion when heated.

And you can skip the Frenchie old school method above by simply using 20% chicken breast and methylcellulose (methocel) thus avoiding the eggs and cream ..........giving a more intense Liver flavor.

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If methocel works, other, more easily obtainable hydrocolloids, such as xanthan and guar gums, should work as well. With a very thin layer of pasta, these ravioli shouldn't need to cook that long. If the filling starts out chilled and the cooking time is short, the final temp of the filling may not be that high. My guess is that the foie mousse shouldn't require that much stabilization. One could also combine different stabilizers in hopes of achieving a synergistic effect. For instance, one could try a little chicken protein, an egg yolk, a tiny amount of xanthan and a tiny amount of guar. The net amount of additional ingredients would be quite a bit less, providing a bolder foie flavor, at the same time, the level of stabilization might be the same (or even higher).

Lastly, if you had a lot of time on your hands, you could form the filling in two layers, the outside having a greater proportion of stabilizing ingredients/less foie flavor and the inside with less, as the inside will be exposed to quite a bit less heat than the layer closest to the pasta. If it's a very small ravioli, this may not be practical.

[Vadouvan]

Is heavy cream that effective of a stabilizer? Even if it is a good stabilizer heavy cream has a strong tendency to coat the palate and mask flavors, flavors, that, in this instance, I don't think you'd want to be masking.

The protein in the chicken and the egg are good emulsifiers/stabilizers, the port might be a nice addition to flavor, but the cream...

The cream isnt a stabilizer, its a binder combined with egg and chicken (protein).

Cream does Mask flavors used in copious amounts.

In the specified amount for the above recipe, it is a non issue.

Rather....... canned livers are too intensely strong for raviolis because they are preparations that are designed to be eaten cold.

Furthermore, they have been seasoned with salt with the intent of cold consumption such that heating them up makes them too salty. They therefore need to be cut with the chicken which also acts as a binder and the cream acts as an agent to adjust the durometer (compression texture and mouthfeel) of the final product so it isnt a hockey puck. The only thing worse than pastas that are too thick are fillings that are too dense. In this case, cream presents *needed* dilution and structure.

Regarding the port, if you can reduce it even further (2 T.) without impairing the taste, I'd recommend it, as water tends to run contrary to stabilization. With less water, this recipe shouldn't require quite so much chicken and egg to maintain an emulsion when heated.

This may be a matter of opinion.....I disagree.

"White port" which really isnt port but more a sweet wine is being used primarily for its color and sweetness so the color of the mousse is light blond and not off pink/brown from "red port".

Unfortunately like Mirin, reducing white port to less than 1/4 of its initial volume changes it's flavor profile to a nasty medicinal tasting reduction.

The protein ratio in the recipe provides enough structure to absorb all that liquid.

It isnt simply the amount of chicken, its also the temperature.

In fact I use a food processor with a metal bowl which is pre-frozen before making the mousse, the heat generated by the motor thus does not affect the preparation.......the temperature stabilizes the emulsion......totally fool proof.

Freezing the chicken helps if you dont have a metal bowl.....just chill everything.

Interesting because this was the very basic procedure but now cooks are quick to resort to "molecular" processes without nailing down the old school basics.

that is evolution....but a dose of tradition.....????

If methocel works, other, more easily obtainable hydrocolloids, such as xanthan and guar gums, should work as well. With a very thin layer of pasta, these ravioli shouldn't need to cook that long. If the filling starts out chilled and the cooking time is short, the final temp of the filling may not be that high. My guess is that the foie mousse shouldn't require that much stabilization. One could also combine different stabilizers in hopes of achieving a synergistic effect. For instance, one could try a little chicken protein, an egg yolk, a tiny amount of xanthan and a tiny amount of guar. The net amount of additional ingredients would be quite a bit less, providing a bolder foie flavor, at the same time, the level of stabilization might be the same (or even higher).

Lastly, if you had a lot of time on your hands, you could form the filling in two layers, the outside having a greater proportion of stabilizing ingredients/less foie flavor and the inside with less, as the inside will be exposed to quite a bit less heat than the layer closest to the pasta. If it's a very small ravioli, this may not be practical.

though other gums or combinations of gums may work, I would simply use DOW's methocel as the various formulations have fairly precise gelling temperatures. That way you could add wheat gluten to the pasta dough, roll it almost trasparently thin and poach it in a water bath.

The filling would gel and the wrapper would just disappear......

Good discussion....i feel like it should be on the methocel thread ?

is there one ?

[BryanZ]

Not to hijack this thread, but there is a thread on methocel. Vadouvan is right in that the precise geling temperatures make it the gelling agent of choice for a delicate application like this. I recently came upon a wealth of methocel information and I'm quite certain the methocel would word well here.

Incidentally the reason I'm all talk and no action is because my samples are in transit as we speak. Dow was kind of hard to get a hold of but supposedly they'll be here early next week. Now all I got to do is find a good source for some foie around here and I can give your recipe a whirl.

Is the wheat gluten to give the ultra-thin dough added strength during the fabrication process?

[Vadouvan]

Is the wheat gluten to give the ultra-thin dough added strength during the fabrication process?

Yes, coupled with elasticity....